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Don Ecker: December 29, 2013

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Okay, I have banned Enzo. By the way, anyone who looked at his profile will see his age and birthdate. I warned him and went much further in trying to work with him than others who have been mod's here. I gave him his chance and he threw it back in my face.

I have never tossed my position around here but when someone keeps asking for it ... sooner or later they are bound to get it. Enough said on that.

Decker

And as a PS, if somebody is going to lie about military service in a war zone, claiming they were there when they were really out sniffing out their first girlfriend ... they get nothing coming from me.
 
Gee Don, that clown was on such a vendetta against you I was beginning to think you pulled him over During your Days as a police officer :)
 
While I did enjoy some of Enzo's posts, though not the ones attacking Don, it annoys me to no end when people on the internet who don't use their real names want to brag about who they think they are or what they've done. I don't use my real name here, some members know me from Facebook but regardless, you'll never hear me bragging about things that I've done since there's no way for anyone to verify what I say without my real name and I'm not willing to provide that to most people, you'll also never hear me calling myself a genius, because I'm not deluded and also because, and here's a hint, if you have to tell everyone that you're a genius, chances are, you're not.

While I might consider Don a right winger, it's all a matter of perspective and he might not see himself as such. Regardless of whether he is or isn't, there's one thing that can't be denied about Don and that's that the man calls it like he sees it, he might not be right 100% of the time but you still have to appreciate the man's honesty and integrity and the fact that he's willing to call bullshit when he sees it. It certainly hasn't made things any easier for him in this morass that we call ufology, but he's maintained that honesty nevertheless and I have nothing but respect for that.
 
I was thinking those very things, yes Enzo did bring up some good points elsewhere but his raison d'etre seemed to be concentrated on attacking Don's production values on dmr as he brought this up in several posts in a couple of different threads. And I suppose there is good reason for changing some personal info but I don't think changing birthdates as enzo hinted at in various venues is going to help much. If you feel it needs to come to that stay off the Internets.
 
If you read back through Enzo’s posts you just may discover that he/she didn’t really care anymore. Attacking was just part of it. Frustration and disenchantment overwhelmed, sending the poster over the edge. It’s not the first time this has happened, and most certainly won’t be the last. When it gets to that point, it’s time to leave the basement for a while.
 
In the show Don was talking about "enemy Helicopters" (in the sense of shot down or crashed U.S weaponry being recovered, repaired and used by the enemy).
This is a subject I find endlessly fascinating and some say it has relevance in the "UFO" field, (think Col Corso and reverse engineering).

My opinion is that this is a tactic that is as old as fighting itself, I have often had arguments with my father about something called convergent evolution (basically given the same problem and materials people will find the same solution) whilst I do not reject the theory in some instances I believe when it comes to weapons like the bow and arrow it is far more likely that there was an "original" inventor and his or her design was copied and adapted by people who saw it in use, however this idea creates its own set of problems in that for example the bow and arrow are pretty much universal in early cultures, cultures that are separated by thousands of miles of land and sea, so either the "first" people had already invented them and took them with them, or they were "reinvented" by different people at different times.

I think I have strayed away from the original topic of this thread, but as the show contained such a wealth of topics it was hard not to.
So back to the episode, I enjoyed it because of (and I am not being rude here) the combined age and experience of Gene, Chris and Don. It far exceeds my own, or that of any individual,
and results in a higher level (quality) of discussion, that is outside of my experience in terms of the usual "paranormal" media.
 
Decker said:
You know Observer .. that seems to happen WAY TOO MUCH in the ufo/paranormal ghetto we all play in. I wonder why?

Decker
Click to expand...
@Don Just had to let you know this is just too cool! "The UFO Ghetto"

ufology said:
Great show. Don's story about a UFO shot down in Vietnam was interesting. I agree that not a lot has been done by the ufology community in years, but I think he might have recognized the effort Richard Dolan has made with his books and his new publishing company. Don's comments on MUFON were spot on. Not so sure I'm as big a fan of Ingo Swann as he is though. It was also interesting to hear that some other people had also theorized about the possibility that some crop circles may be made by military DEWs.

I have to agree with the comments made about Tim Good, but I'm also reading his latest book and once again, I'm finding that most of what is written is clearly in the context of events that were reported to him or found in some archive. I'm also not so sure that it's fair to say that compiling a collection of such material isn't worthy of some recognition. After all, what are we supposed to do; walk into Space Command and say hand over the evidence? So far, in his new book, Good says he's personally convinced that aliens are among us, and I think he may be right. The difference between Good and I on this issue is that while Tim believes it, I'm reserved about it, but don't find it unreasonable. Those two positions aren't all that far apart. After all, if it's not unreasonable to think it's true, why shouldn't we believe it? It's a pretty thin line.
Click to expand...

Like I always state emphatically with regards to the doubting Ingo crowd, show me the money, cause via very REAL recorded and substantiated lab based scientific analysis means, he has certainly shown us his in verified abundance. IMO, Ingo's as well as Pat Price's abilities stopped being a matter of routine conjecture or even more predictably routine consensus, just as soon as the scientific correlations had been verified relative to those abilities.

I think with all due respect for real research, at this point, Tim's cards are all face up on the table. Game over. I think the man's just milking an old motive . I will state emphatically that with this book MR Good joins the vast number of life long interested UFO researcher/writers who identify UFOs as being chariots of evil intent, primarily consisting of an ethereal nature rather than of a mechanistic material technology. Or possibly having a full command over both. I often refer curious UFO fans like myself to a study of the end game of more noteworthy Ufologists. Whether it's due to their own programming, or whether it's the result of time tested and acquired skillful perspective, what might be referred to as "the demon perspective" is extremely common among the advanced.
 
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Wade Ridsdale said:
I was thinking those very things, yes Enzo did bring up some good points elsewhere but his raison d'etre seemed to be concentrated on attacking Don's production values on dmr as he brought this up in several posts in a couple of different threads. And I suppose there is good reason for changing some personal info but I don't think changing birthdates as enzo hinted at in various venues is going to help much. If you feel it needs to come to that stay off the Internets.
Click to expand...

Well Gang, DMR has been and is a labor of love. DMR is also done on a shoe-string. However I would be willing to put the content up against anything else "out there" .. any place and any time. As Rich said a number of messages ago .. hey you want 5 Star quality ... I will be happy to buy totally new equp. as soon as the complainers (who I might add get it all for free .. not to mention I have been doing it gratis for years) send me a check.

Now, the party in question (to my mind) displayed nothing but juvenile spite in his messages here. I have no idea what his motives were, except possibly just spite for who knows what reason. He then even tried that "tried and true" Bill Cooper tactic by suggesting I was a "spy" or some such bullshit because I looked at his profile and saw he was born in 1956. Yea buddy, some real covert tactics on my part.

But, I will tell you a true story about something that happened about 2 years ago on Facebook. Some of you will know that I was fascinated by a UK case called the Highgate Vampire a few years ago. And, that case makes the squabbling here look like a "love in" by comparison. I was on a FB page where the insults were flying hot and heavy and someone mentioned my investigative piece I had written .. and (if you know about this case then you know who Sean Manchester is) a Sean Manchester zombie started attacking me. Of course he was simply going by a screen name, no real name ... and thought he could say anything to me. He knew I was a former detective, a former soldier and really was insulting. I didn't say too much at the time but I did a little investigation on him. In one day I had his name, his address in London, his wife's name and the name of his kid. All I did was then address him by his name on the forum, I told him when last in the UK I was close to his address by naming the street ... and the guy had a meltdown ... right there. He was so shocked the ass-clown went to his local police station to report it. Of course I never was nasty or anything .. and the moron forgot I was in Los Angeles and he was in London U.K. Like I said .. an ass clown. Oh, and he then promptly disappeared from the forum.

Hiding behind a keyboard is not really that secure but then most of the kids on the internet don't think beyond their nose.

Decker
 
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Don,
I can't understand why so many folks in the UFO field give you such a hard time and rather have someone who is a straight shooter and having spoken to folks who been in similar situation as you mate will not touch this field due to incidents like just happened with regards personnel attacks. The forum is about learning from each other and agree debating with manners (think some folks never had been taught). Also the tin foil gang have ruined this field for real academic study. However, think it highly likely most of the sighting these days is Drones/UMV / ATS our gear not off planet as the tin foil gang would suggest.
 
Jeff Davis said:
@Don Just had to let you know this is just too cool! "The UFO Ghetto"

Like I always state emphatically with regards to the doubting Ingo crowd, show me the money, cause via very REAL recorded and substantiated lab based scientific analysis means, he has certainly shown us his in verified abundance. IMO, Ingo's as well as Pat Price's abilities stopped being a matter of routine conjecture or even more predictably routine consensus, just as soon as the scientific correlations had been verified relative to those abilities.
Click to expand...

And then again, here's a letter from a real scientist ( notice I didn't need to capitalize the word "real" here. ) because everyone knows Carl Sagan actually was a real scientist:

SaganSwann2.jpg


I think with all due respect for real research, at this point, Tim's cards are all face up on the table. Game over. I think the man's just milking an old motive . I will state emphatically that with this book MR Good joins the vast number of life long interested UFO researcher/writers who identify UFOs as being chariots of evil intent, primarily consisting of an ethereal nature rather than of a mechanistic material technology.
Click to expand...
Clearly you haven't read Beyond Top Secret. I've also got Tim Good's latest book, and once again it's plain to see that the vast majority of his reporting is based on sources he has quoted rather than his own proclamations. I think Tim would do better to get some coaching on how to handle public appearances. I think he is a more complex character than he's given credit for and I'm not of the opinion that he's trying to mislead or misinform people. He just doesn't interview all that well.
 
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Decker said:
You know Observer .. that seems to happen WAY TOO MUCH in the ufo/paranormal ghetto we all play in. I wonder why?

Decker
Click to expand...
Getting back to the show's topics instead of personalities I think the high point of the show was Christopher O'Brien's more than palpable frustration with where Ufology is at. I know that others that historically follow this seemingly futile path are disappointed, disavowed, disenchanted, disenfranchised and mostly in disbelief. So much pedantic infighting, hoaxing, hawking of fraudulent credentials, fraudulent witnesses etc. - where indeed are the James E. MacDonald's?!

I agree with previous comments regarding how much of Ingo's books/ideas are rooted in reality. But it was interesting to hear Don Ecker identify his own shift towards allowing for the possibility of more than nuts and bolts technology at work. And in the grand scheme of things I suppose that is a leap for Ufology. And if we could have extended the show in this direction I wonder how much of the current ancient alien new paradigms would be celebrated or ridiculed alongside Black Eyed Kids, aliens as demons masquerading as the Nephallim. Don, where do you draw the line at what's possible, what's just wild stuff and what should be completely discounted.

The Streibers' response to human mutilation offered some brief titillation, but I read through the human mutilation factor and would like to know where does this currently stand? Is it all just linked to more generic DEA cases involving gang warfare? Do you have any more doubts about the events as reported? Do you thnk it's possible the person who had returned zero cases of unsolved mutilations to his request and needed approval for future inquires was being flagged himself for other reasons?

The suggestion, that within the "closed system" that Christopher O'Brien was talking about, that we are all tied together by blood, that human mutilations are an extremely well kept secret needs more fleshing out. Are there still more cases that are considered human mutilation; because, if so then there should be an outcry as encouraged at the end of Don Ecker's original article? Or were these events confined to a time and place, to only Christian countries etc.?
 
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I wrote the paper on human mutilation back in 1988. As I said on numerous occasions I attempted to get more detailed information going on approx. 3 plus years and finally gave up in frustration. I was not able to break thru any barriers that shield this information. After I gave up on this track I was contacted a number of times by different media types about the topic .. and for years refused to discuss it. Where is it today? I have no idea nor do I have any information on it.

The bottom line with me is this; do I think cases involving human beings happened? Yes I do.

Do I think that these cases are numerous? I have nothing to support that.

Do I think that the "powers that be" have shielded this information, or possibly attributed it to something else? Yes, very possibly.

Do I expect to ever revive my investigation into the subject? No, I feel it is an exercise in futility.

Decker
 
Hey don my kudos on banning Enzo, I doubt he was a vet holding views and an attitude like that, unless by Vietnam vet he meant he took care of Vietnamese cats?

Your paper on human mutilation, I'd love to read that if possible.

Also with DMR been offline this week do we get a 4 hr marathon show next week!?!
 
TheMoon said:
Hey don my kudos on banning Enzo, I doubt he was a vet holding views and an attitude like that, unless by Vietnam vet he meant he took care of Vietnamese cats?

Your paper on human mutilation, I'd love to read that if possible.

Also with DMR been offline this week do we get a 4 hr marathon show next week!?!
Click to expand...

Moon, CyberstationUSA runs shows every night. We have a window to do a 3 hour show on Fridays if we wish, will have to speak to Rich about it. Not sure how we might do it .. for example start an hour earlier or just run an hour later. Will announce our decision if we decide to do it. Maybe once or twice a month, weekly, not sure at this point!

Decker

PS That paper is on the web, although not sure where at this point.
 
ufology said:
And then again, here's a letter from a real scientist ( notice I didn't need to capitalize the word "real" here. ) because everyone knows Carl Sagan actually was a real scientist:

SaganSwann2.jpg



Clearly you haven't read Beyond Top Secret. I've also got Tim Good's latest book, and once again it's plain to see that the vast majority of his reporting is based on sources he has quoted rather than his own proclamations. I think Tim would do better to get some coaching on how to handle public appearances. I think he is a more complex character than he's given credit for and I'm not of the opinion that he's trying to mislead or misinform people. He just doesn't interview all that well.
Click to expand...

So based upon Carl Sagan's skeptical opinion of the evidence, rather than an actual scientific analysis of the data, you accept his opinion. Correct? Yes, Carl Sagan was a scientist, in the same sense that Michio Kaku is a Scientist. He was a very vocal personality in the media both in written form and television appearances. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, however that's precisely where the matter breaks down. Opinion, and ultimately, his opinion equaled BS. When the legitimacy of Swan's abilities were no longer judged, but rather verified based on the scientifically derived correlations obtained via the double blind testing used to measure the accuracy of the results he routinely achieved, the matter was no longer one in which, opinion, mattered. This is a ridiculous example as pertaining to Ingo anyway. Astral Projection and Remote Viewing are not even the same thing. Sagan at times was an egotistical blow hard.

As far as Tim's books, I have read just two I believe if memory serves me. I read one called Alien Contact: Secret Files Revealed, and Above Top Secret which I honestly couldn't put down when I first read it. That's a great book. Don't get me wrong about Good. I think him extremely talented. I just haven't heard ANYTHING from him in the last 15-20 years that I have not heard before. I can't think of any mind blowing revelations, just more good story telling.

BTW, hearsay is most definitely definable as first witness testimony. First person witness testimony is hearsay. That or it's a waste of all reporting including that of the witness. Unlike Sagan's opinion above. Which I guess could be foolishly defined as hearsay, but it sure wouldn't convince a judge.
 
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