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Tyder's Apology

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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
I understand why some of you, friends of Steve, feel betrayed. But his crime is basically posting dumb messages on a message board under another name.

He was caught (thanks Angelo).

He knows what he did, he apologized. If we all confessed to our sins here, the forum's database would explode.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
I understand why some of you, friends of Steve, feel betrayed. But his crime is basically posting dumb messages on a message board under another name.

He was caught (thanks Angelo).

He knows what he did, he apologized. If we all confessed to our sins here, the forum's database would explode.
Reading that made me realize that I too really need to find something better to do with my time than waste so much of it here. If we won't deal with people lying, hoaxing, and faking on the forum then what in the hell are we doing trying to point out the lying, hoaxing, fakers in the UFO community?
 

Decker

Administrator
Staff member
The Paracast has always been a web place where I knew the site to be one of the most civil and dare I say it, enlightened sites, EVER to come to where UFO/Paranormal subjects are covered and discussed ... civilly.

I have been doing the computer thing since very late 1987 and this is indeed a "watering-hole" in a desert of shit ... in many cases. I have always used my own name or identity and have never tried to use a sock puppet ID to hide behind. I suppose it would not be hard to figure out who I was at any rate. Now, I have also just had a guy in the UK attack me on Facebook hiding behind a sock puppet ID. Let me tell you about it.

Some of you may recall going back several years an investigation I did on the so called Highgate Vampire case. (I ended up writing two investigative reports on it.) It involved a guest of mine and also here on The Paracast, one David Farrant and another guy, a genuine whack-oid and certifiable nut-job and looney-tune named Sean Manchester. Well, at any rate, Manchester claims to be a Bishop in the "Old Catholic Church" and a gen-u-wine, no bull-shit, and honest to God ... Vampire Slayer! Oh yeah, one of those guys (or chicks if you watched Buffy) who track down the dreaded Un-Dead, stalk them to their coffin and then drive a stake right thru their heart! Honest to God.

Well, anyway up on FB there is a spot called the Highgate Vampire Appreciation Society where this guy calling himself "Tim E Lord" (btw, time lord as I discovered ... he is a Dr. Who fan) is also a fan of our fearless vampire killer. So, in that little vampire ghetto on the web I am, because I took that Manchester on with my investigation and whatever, either famous or infamous. And for a number of years Manchester has tried to stalk me under various sock puppets insulting me because I am a Nam veteran, former cop, etc. So I now and again wonder over there to see what they are talking about. So, I see this guy slamming my work, the fact that for years did the UFO thing, (and remember this ass-wipe believes in vampires!!) and then because I went to Nam which makes me a war-mongering and war loving American. (He is a Brit) Well, I got pissed off.

So I chime in, remind him that if he is gonna attack me who does NOT HIDE behind a sock puppet, well Bunky, why use a sock puppet identity? He tells me basically to go piss up a rope. So, I say fine ... you wanna play, okay Pal, we all can play. I start an investigation to find out who this guy is. Takes me two days and I discover who this asshole is, where he lives in the UK and then I go back and tell the forum. Shit, this asshole was so scared he notified his local police ... according to what he said on the forum. And here I am in LA, Calf. and as if I am going to theUK to track him down. LOL!! Just goes to show ya, be careful with who you screw with ... you just never know if it might come back and bite you in the ass.

Decker
 

Wade

FeralNormal master
"... . I have always used my own name or identity and have never tried to use a sock puppet ID to hide behind..."

with one notable exception, huh don? :rolleyes:
 

Wade

FeralNormal master
I got my start in this forum by being accused of being your sock puppet, hence my signature, because of my spirited agreement on your observations on a fellow that calls ufo magazine his home
 

Wade

FeralNormal master
No biggie. I shouldn't have been so oblique on my referencing, I shouldn't have necessarily expected you to remember and it could be read the wrong way by anybody that wasn't around or remembered the incident.
 

The Pair of Cats

a.k.a Philip Deane
Phil,

I considered Steve my friend and we have communicated outside of forum discussions on and off for a while now. I have reached out to him numerous times this way. I know Angelo has as well.

There simply is no excuse for his behavior Phil and he needs to be banned. He needs to be banned not only because he has violated the rules of the forum and the trust of the people in it but for his own good as well. I think it is obvious he needs to get away from the Internet all together and get some things sorted out in his personal life and he seems to realize this. The kindest thing this forum can do for the guy is to ban him and encourage him to seek some counseling.

We can make excuses for his behavior if we like but this is what happens when folks trample on friendship, trust, and the rules of engagement. People no longer want to be associated with them nor should they be expected to. You may wish to reach out to him personally and I think that would be wonderful. I on the other hand am "One bitten, twice shy."

Ricky
Ricky,
Whilst i empathize with your situation I do not believe that banning is the best form of punishment. It should only be brought out at the most severe end of the scale. Steve has voluntarily banned himself along with apologising and i don't think we could ask any more from him really. I think he feels enough shame, embarrassment and guilt over this as it is, without further, relentless calls for retribution or punishment.
How you and others treat Steve from now on is your business and a direct consequence of his actions. I am sure he understands this. I don't think he is a bad person, he has just done a bad thing.
I can only imagine what type of frustration he was going through to go down the sock puppet road.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
Phil,

I think you are exaggerating things a bit but hyperbole is no stranger here. I certainly am asking nothing more from Steve than for him to discontinue subjecting others to the unacceptable behavior he has displayed here. However, his inability to cope with his frustrations should not be considered anyone's problem but his. That is solely his responsibility. He should be shamed and embarrassed as I am ashamed and embarrassed for him and as I know Angelo and several others are. I've said my piece here and in private to the concerned parties and stand by every word.
 

The Pair of Cats

a.k.a Philip Deane
Yes, exaggeration is a key word but that's how i see Steve's actions here. An exaggerated or unusual occurrence for a normally considerate member. If, as it seems, Steve is suffering in any way from personal tragedy, grief or stress then maybe a more compassionate way of treating him is with some understanding and forgiveness. That is of course up to you and anyone else who has been directly affected by his actions. Considering that people handle their grief or stress differently. It is my experience that the last thing a person with emotional sufferings needs is to have further punishment heaped upon them when they trip up.
Also if we are to go down the "exaggerated" road, all he is guilty of, as Gene has iterated, is posting dumb messages under an assumed name, hardly worthy of the "exaggerated" responses i have seen. He makes one mistake and there are calls for his balls to be handed to him on a platter. Remember for 4 or 5 years he has been a solid forum member, one of good standing. Would you have felt that much differently about him if he had abused you using his own name? It's not as if he was hiding his tracks very well. Right from the start people were suspicious and he was quickly found out. Looks to me like the actions of a man who wanted to be found out.
Anyway these pleas will probably fall on to deaf ears but i think Steve, at least, warrants a modicum of understanding.
"To err is Human, to forgive is divine!" (please forgive any paraphrasing here, lol!)
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Phil,


I considered Steve my friend and we have communicated outside of forum discussions on and off for a while now. I have reached out to him numerous times this way. I know Angelo has as well.

There simply is no excuse for his behavior Phil and he needs to be banned. He needs to be banned not only because he has violated the rules of the forum and the trust of the people in it but for his own good as well. I think it is obvious he needs to get away from the Internet all together and get some things sorted out in his personal life and he seems to realize this. The kindest thing this forum can do for the guy is to ban him and encourage him to seek some counseling.

We can make excuses for his behavior if we like but this is what happens when folks trample on friendship, trust, and the rules of engagement. People no longer want to be associated with them nor should they be expected to. You may wish to reach out to him personally and I think that would be wonderful. I on the other hand am "One bitten, twice shy."

Ricky



I agree, i think he should be banned, that of course is a matter for the owner and moderators, but as Ricky has pointed out he violated the rules, and set a very bad precident.
Using a sock puppet to deliberatly cause trouble, while as Tyder001 cheering Gene on for correcting the unruly behaviour of others using their legitimate accounts.

And when caught red handed told Angelo, he didnt do it.

He used this account to stalk some of us here,, and i accept that for those of you not subjected to the "treatment" our responses may seem exagerated.
But for those of us who had to deal with the frustration of being hounded by this little shit, our reactions are what they are.
Steve is not entitled to a higher standard of consideration, than that he brought to the table as Danny Torrence, he was happy to dish it out...... now he has to live with the result.

Life is tough, we all have our troubles IRL, and we all get frustrated sometimes by our exchanges here, none know this better than I.

But Steve crossed the line, creating a disguised account in order to create trouble, imo it wasnt about "making a point" it wasnt about "venting his frustration" it was about sticking the knife in, And if you read through "dannys" posts, while some of us were singled out for special attacks, very few of the audience escaped his contempt.
If you believe in aliens or ghosts, psychics or remote viewing, you are woo merchants, lacking in critical thinking skills and idiots.

Thats how he feels about the paranormal subject and those interested in it, dont take my word for it, read dannys posts.

And like the coward and fraud hes exposed himself to be, he didnt have the conviction, the stones to say it as Tyder001/Steve.

I dont for one minute buy the mental stress scenario, imo this is just cowardice and fraud

On a softer note, i'm glad some of you can offer him some words of comfort where some of us cannot, i dont wish him any ill will.
But neither can i personally gloss over what he did.

As always , ive said it as i see it, no surprises, no deception

One voice, one vote, its my honest opinion, and its not worth much more than that in the grand scheme of things.
But if its not my honest opinion, its worth nothing at all..................
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
I have wasted enough time on the cowardly disingenuous asshole Phil. You go ahead and be as magnanimous and forgiving as you care to and socialize with the guy if you like, nobody is stopping you. I want nothing to do with him or anyone else who pulls crap like that.
 

Kim323

Paranormal Maven
I think Phil is the voice of reason here.

Those whom Steve's alter ego criticized were justifiably criticized in my opinion. Steve himself had tried over the course of some months past to essentially say the same things his created self did. Did that make what he did, the creation of this alter ego, the right way to go about it? A resounding and echoing NO (so don't come after me for excusing what Steve did by recreating himself). It wasn't right at all.

I just saw Christopher Plummer in The Tempest, and so a couple of Shakespeare's lines in two other of his plays spring to memory. I think my quotes are exact. The first is,

Juliet: "What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Steve has cried aloud and very loudly for civility for months in this forum, and came to my aid when I was under the most vile and personal attacks. He felt himself also under attack for admitting a spiritual life, which admission in this forum is a red flag to the bulls in the arena to marshal their snorts, bellowings, and hot air, lower their horned heads, and come a'charging. I have been called names, accused of all sorts of stuff, and Steve for himself and for me became very frustrated, I think. I think it's clear. The guy has a heart of gold, and it weighs pounds more on the moral scale when it comes to accepting others' beliefs in a fair manner than the mere ounces that barely tip the scale of equanimity when others' hearts are placed on it. Just to throw something out, and it is a mere drop, the posting in this thread of the picture of the Special Olympics is beyond the pale. But it is typical. And the moderators let that picture and its vile and cruel accompanying comment stand. There is no shame. What utter cruelty to post that picture and that comment with it.

I think Steve was pushed to the limit here, and this thread alternately asks for his head and then tries to psychoanalyze him and encourage him to go to counseling with false tears of sympathy. Are you kidding? No, you are not. If counseling is needed, I can think of some who take their own past experiences, ones they admit themselves have affected them, and taken that out on others. Steve is a very broadminded and expansive man, and he's got plenty of "balls" and "stones."

I'm not sure of the exact sequence, but I remember one of the last threads the actual Steve posted in, and I WILL darn well bring it up in this thread. He linked to an article about Roger Penrose and the Big Bang and someone immediately attacked him and attacked his spiritual beliefs gratuitously and without reason. It ruined that thread and made a mockery of it.

Shakespeare, that venerable bard, springs to mind again, and my quote is the real one:

Queen Gertrude, mother of Hamlet: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

I can't believe, and yes, this is my opinion, how some here cannot see their own role in this, and again, I DO NOT agree with Steve's solution. I think it was impulsive and ill advised, but in terms of the provocation it can be understood in ways that require, however, some introspection on the part of some, those who are, in my opinion, disciples of that old and apt saying,

"Every cock crows on his own dunghill."

I, for one, will never create an alter ego. I don't need it, and ironically neither did Steve. He was handling himself very laudably, and yes, he made a mistake for which some here, as is typical, are mercilessly attacking him, with glee no less (isn't that clear, the glee?) and putting him in a pillory. And look that word up, it is apt.

Yes, the irony here is that Steve did not need to do what he did. Those who attack when disagreed with, those who are used to sycophancy, have been handed a "victory" on which they can clamber, rise to their utmost heights, stretch their beaks to the sky, flap their wings, and crow loud and long and gleefully. But they do not take to the sky like eagles, they remain stuck where the last quote above has them mired. Kim:)

Just my opinion. Kim:cool: (my alter ego)
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
How ridiculous can it get? No one is after blood or his head! More disingenuous crap. These excuses for his behavior are absolutely childish and absurd. The guy has proven that he cannot be trusted. What is so hard to understand about that concept?

This would not even be discussed in most forums. He would just be banned and that would be the end of it. Steve wasn't pushed to do a damn thing. I cannot believe the abdication of responsibly that is being suggested here. He could get up and walk away from the keyboard at any time. If he was so disturbed he should have and could have found something else to do with his time for Pete's sake. The only person responsible for Steve's frustration and behavior is Steve. To suggest anything else is absurd.

As incredible as it may seem Kim, this forum and the people in it who follow the rules and try to use it correctly are not here to be abused by others who have no self control, ethics, or self respect. If this is going to turn into acceptable behavior here why would anyone want to contribute to this forum? I certainly have more self respect than to subject myself to people who would abuse me like that.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
How ridiculous can it get? No one is after blood or his head! More disingenuous crap. These excuses for his behavior are absolutely childish and absurd. The guy has proven that he cannot be trusted. What is so hard to understand about that concept?

This would not even be discussed in most forums. He would just be banned and that would be the end of it. Steve wasn't pushed to do a damn thing. I cannot believe the abdication of responsibly that is being suggested here. He could get up and walk away from the keyboard at any time. If he was so disturbed he should have and could have found something else to do with his time for Pete's sake. The only person responsible for Steve's frustration and behavior is Steve. To suggest anything else is absurd.

As incredible as it may seem Kim, this forum and the people in it who follow the rules and try to use it correctly are not here to be abused by others who have no self control, ethics, or self respect. If this is going to turn into acceptable behavior here why would anyone want to contribute to this forum? I certainly have more self respect than to subject myself to people who would abuse me like that.
Quoted for truth.

He wasnt pushed to do anything, if you read his "explanation" he did it because he wanted to win....... Thats it, unable to make his point with honest and open discussion, he resorted to dirty tactics, the purpose ? in his own words to "win".

If this is going to turn into acceptable behavior here why would anyone want to contribute to this forum? I certainly have more self respect than to subject myself to people who would abuse me like that
My thoughts exactly, if this goes unpunished then its the default standard from here on in, we may as well all whip up second accounts to be as insulting and as rowdy as we like.
Its now acceptable behaviour, as evidenced by the response of those who run the forum, and those making excuses for steve.

Turn a blind eye to this and the gold standard becomes a dirty pewter in hue
 

The Pair of Cats

a.k.a Philip Deane
I have wasted enough time on the cowardly disingenuous asshole Phil. You go ahead and be as magnanimous and forgiving as you care to and socialize with the guy if you like, nobody is stopping you. I want nothing to do with him or anyone else who pulls crap like that.
I intend to Ricky. And you are welcome entitled to think that way. As are you, Mike and anyone else who was targeted in this event.

Thanks Kim for offering the other side to the story (as there, almost certainly, always is).
I had also noticed a barely contained animosity between certain members and Steve in threads that he was participating in. Although because of my irregular visiting of the forums, i never really saw it as a concern. He always seemed to handle the situation well.
He had mentioned to me in a recent conversation of his frustrations in getting his point across.

Maybe some here DO take these forums too seriously, including myself at times. Maybe that was what was part of what was happening to Steve. Maybe as Kim said Steve was taking a chance (in his view) in airing his beliefs and opinions here and was hurt when others chided him for them. Maybe he spent too much time here, especially trying to get others to understand him. Maybe all involved, victims and perpetrators alike should take a step back for a while and gain some perspective. If you are letting something like this ruin your paranormal world view then maybe you spend too much time here. It's easy to get caught up and wound up in things that get said and are done here. But really, it's just a forum and in the scheme of things rather unimportant.
A lot of maybe's, for sure.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
I agree Don. There has been an epidemic of sorts. Hopefully this event will make people understand that they will get caught, and possibly banned.
I am extremely disappointed in Tyder though, and I have told him as much privately. To be honest about it, it has less to do with him actually doing the sock puppet thing, but more to do with what he said about me, and then lying about it when I figured out it was him earlier this week. If he had an issue with me, he should have told me privately as himself and not post about it.
So yeah, it's good that he apologized, but I'm disappointed that he denied it at first and lied to me about it when I caught him.
Cowardly little shit, drown in shame Steve.........

but more to do with what he said about me


Those whom Steve's alter ego criticized were justifiably criticized in my opinion
 
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