Jeff Crowell
Paranormal Annoyance
Listening now...and read the book. I'm hoping the show fills in some of the gaps, and am pumped about the episode.
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The Skinwalker Ranch Roundtable Show
- Thread starter Jeff Crowell
- Start date
About to join you Jeff..and the sentiment is identical.
Paleontologist
Skilled Investigator
I'm always disappointed to hear anyone take the phenomenon of "orbs" in photographs at all seriously. They are reflections from dust particles -- no mystery.
SRL+
Paranormal Adept
We're still digesting, however beyond anything I could expect. Just get ready for the feedback. I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot.
That's what I thought until I heard about the rumored "Orb Project." What's up w/ that line of thinking? What do they think they know that we don't know? Hmm Go figure...
ryan
Paranormal Maven
the orbs at the ranch are NOT dust particles which show up like evps after the fact. What fascinates me about the ranch is the "orbs" are literally balls of light varying from firefly size to the size of an entire tree (Gwen Shermans quote to me) but average around the size of a softball to basketball. They are most definatly visible to the human eye when "powered up". this phenomona has a dramatic distinction from the typical photographed orbs phenomona... the orbs are by far the most common of all anomymoulous events at the ranch.
Agreed. But regarding the skinwalker ranch - are we not talking about 'blue orbs' etc that were seen by the naked eye?
Wade
FeralNormal master
Also I've never heard of any dust particles frying several hounds.
SRL+
Paranormal Adept
There is quite a bit to unpack here. It appears that with every question answered, and impression given by the quests, that there comes three or four more questions. So, I thought I would start with Chip, the whistle blower.
Chip: Taking his claims at face value, he very well could be in a deep hole. I would imagine his former employers would easily be able to track his whereabouts. Chris should have him check in once a week. Just kidding.., kinda.
How did Chip get the gig in the first place? Did he have any prior military training?
Chip described a warehouse in Las Vegas where there were approximately fifty employees of Bigelows / NSA? Were they researchers working on the NIDS Utah project, or various personnel working on unrelated projects for Bigelow Aerospace?
Chip describing the cameras at the ranch as in operational , with computer monitors left abandoned in a closet may suggest that the researchers have collected all the data that they could.
Was Chip on the property when the military became agitated, and then departed? If not, how did he come across the information?
I was rather surprised that the dogs, (bio sensors), had no formal training, and would kowtow when encountering a particular energetic presence.
Chip’s encounters with missing items, mirrors the Sherman’s accounts in the book, “Hunt for the Skinwalker.”
The radio turning on without a power source was interesting.
I am under the impression that it is not unusual for any type of security to carry side arms.
Concerning the MRI. I would suggest that any employee, or researcher who resided at the ranch for any given length of time would undergo testing. In other words everyone there was considered a bio sensor, (AKA), lab rat. Mr. Bigelow is extremely detailed, precise, and has very deep pockets. This research was laid out, and executed with extreme care.
If Chip is telling the truth, I would suggest a possible NSA connection just may indicate how important this research is.
With all this being said, I am surprised that Chip would have access to so much information.
Chip: Taking his claims at face value, he very well could be in a deep hole. I would imagine his former employers would easily be able to track his whereabouts. Chris should have him check in once a week. Just kidding.., kinda.
How did Chip get the gig in the first place? Did he have any prior military training?
Chip described a warehouse in Las Vegas where there were approximately fifty employees of Bigelows / NSA? Were they researchers working on the NIDS Utah project, or various personnel working on unrelated projects for Bigelow Aerospace?
Chip describing the cameras at the ranch as in operational , with computer monitors left abandoned in a closet may suggest that the researchers have collected all the data that they could.
Was Chip on the property when the military became agitated, and then departed? If not, how did he come across the information?
I was rather surprised that the dogs, (bio sensors), had no formal training, and would kowtow when encountering a particular energetic presence.
Chip’s encounters with missing items, mirrors the Sherman’s accounts in the book, “Hunt for the Skinwalker.”
The radio turning on without a power source was interesting.
I am under the impression that it is not unusual for any type of security to carry side arms.
Concerning the MRI. I would suggest that any employee, or researcher who resided at the ranch for any given length of time would undergo testing. In other words everyone there was considered a bio sensor, (AKA), lab rat. Mr. Bigelow is extremely detailed, precise, and has very deep pockets. This research was laid out, and executed with extreme care.
If Chip is telling the truth, I would suggest a possible NSA connection just may indicate how important this research is.
With all this being said, I am surprised that Chip would have access to so much information.
Jeff Crowell
Paranormal Annoyance
Amen to that, brother. Having investigated claims of haunting phenomenon for the last five years I've made more enemies attacking orb photos than if I would have been Phil Class's more-skeptical brother. I've come to the conclusion that orbs are part of the desperation people employ to produce paranormal evidence, after all if orbs were paranormal in nature than the paranormal would almost be common for the people that capture them. That's flattering and and egocentric for the people claiming responsibility for orb phenomenon, and a clear reflection on their gullibility and self-indulgence at being able to produce this so-called paranormal evidence.
Jeff Crowell
Paranormal Annoyance
I suppose it bears a bit of looking into. Sometimes (as I did in my last reply about orb photography) people clump all 'orbs' into the dust/moisture photographic kind, however as anybody who's looked into UFO's for any length of time can tell you there are encounters of orb-like craft where the term 'orb' simply describes the shape and illumination of the object. Maybe that's what this research is addressing?
Just briefly, it was clear to me from what he said that Chip during that interview that he had a military background.
SRL+
Paranormal Adept
Thanks, I'll go back and give another listen.
@Ryan - "anomymoulous"!!
I am sooo stealing that and passing it off as my own.
I am sooo stealing that and passing it off as my own.
Polterwurst
Paranormal Adept
OK. Things that convinced me that "Chip" is telling the truth (apart from the fact that Chris checked his credentials):
- he says that he's been on the ranch only for 8 weeks and didn't experience much (but obviously enough to make him give up his formerly sceptical attitude). If he was telling a story, he could have said he's been there for a much longer period and seen god knows what to make himself seem more important.
- the discrepancy between the alleged involvement of military and NSA and the fact that he didn't even see surveillance cameras. I would think that anyone making up a story would tell us about high tech equipment and surveillance gadgets all over the place. But if I think about it, cameras seem to have proven quite useless before, so maybe they have given up on that or they make sure the equipment is really well hidden. So it does make sense.
So what did he experience himself?
There were these Poltergeist events (objects disappearing and reappearing, the radio turnig itself on), but these could be "explained away" without much effort.
Then, he told us about the dogs acting strangely. The "rolling over" was another unusual detail that makes his story believable: mostly, with alleged hauntings, you hear about cats and dogs staring at empty space, which might mean something but can easily be explained away - but that submissive behaviour for no good reason, that seems remarkable to me.
And then he talked about orbs he got on photoraphs. He was definitely not talking about visible light anomalies floating around (which seem to be quite common on the ranch) but about the kind of orbs most of us have dismissed, which are not seen but show up only in photographs. Yes, these are mostly just dust particles, pollen or moisture, but he seemed to be aware of that. I think he said that these things would turn up en masse when he took photos after the dogs showed unusual behavior and that he was quite convinced that there were no particles floating around. The guy sounded quite reasonable and sceptical to me. So, maybe there is something to this after all...? Obviously, the guys who told him to make these photos thought so...?
Maybe he gave up on his sceptical attitude as a result of these experiences combined, but I can't shake the feeling that he didn't get to tell the experience(s) that really made him reconsider. So, I hope he will return (without anyone else getting to him first about the non-disclosure agreement he probably signed, or offering him money to shut up) and tell us some more. When he said that he was getting another call, I was thinking "well, I reeeeally hope that's not some NSA dude that has been listening in on the show".
I guess, eight weeks is just not long enough to really get to see much (maybe that's why they give these guys only short gigs), considering that elsewhere you can live your whole life without ever experiencing anything.
So, if he's telling the truth, where does that lead me? Well, seems to me that Mr Bigelow is at least working closely with the military and the usual cover-up suspects. Maybe that's been the case all along, maybe they got to him later on. Or he struck a deal with them, "show me what you've got and I won't my allow my staff to talk about what I've got". Which would explain the non-disclosure agreements. Et voilà, another conspiracy.
Very, very interesting indeed. Good job getting the guy on.
- he says that he's been on the ranch only for 8 weeks and didn't experience much (but obviously enough to make him give up his formerly sceptical attitude). If he was telling a story, he could have said he's been there for a much longer period and seen god knows what to make himself seem more important.
- the discrepancy between the alleged involvement of military and NSA and the fact that he didn't even see surveillance cameras. I would think that anyone making up a story would tell us about high tech equipment and surveillance gadgets all over the place. But if I think about it, cameras seem to have proven quite useless before, so maybe they have given up on that or they make sure the equipment is really well hidden. So it does make sense.
So what did he experience himself?
There were these Poltergeist events (objects disappearing and reappearing, the radio turnig itself on), but these could be "explained away" without much effort.
Then, he told us about the dogs acting strangely. The "rolling over" was another unusual detail that makes his story believable: mostly, with alleged hauntings, you hear about cats and dogs staring at empty space, which might mean something but can easily be explained away - but that submissive behaviour for no good reason, that seems remarkable to me.
And then he talked about orbs he got on photoraphs. He was definitely not talking about visible light anomalies floating around (which seem to be quite common on the ranch) but about the kind of orbs most of us have dismissed, which are not seen but show up only in photographs. Yes, these are mostly just dust particles, pollen or moisture, but he seemed to be aware of that. I think he said that these things would turn up en masse when he took photos after the dogs showed unusual behavior and that he was quite convinced that there were no particles floating around. The guy sounded quite reasonable and sceptical to me. So, maybe there is something to this after all...? Obviously, the guys who told him to make these photos thought so...?
Maybe he gave up on his sceptical attitude as a result of these experiences combined, but I can't shake the feeling that he didn't get to tell the experience(s) that really made him reconsider. So, I hope he will return (without anyone else getting to him first about the non-disclosure agreement he probably signed, or offering him money to shut up) and tell us some more. When he said that he was getting another call, I was thinking "well, I reeeeally hope that's not some NSA dude that has been listening in on the show".
I guess, eight weeks is just not long enough to really get to see much (maybe that's why they give these guys only short gigs), considering that elsewhere you can live your whole life without ever experiencing anything.
So, if he's telling the truth, where does that lead me? Well, seems to me that Mr Bigelow is at least working closely with the military and the usual cover-up suspects. Maybe that's been the case all along, maybe they got to him later on. Or he struck a deal with them, "show me what you've got and I won't my allow my staff to talk about what I've got". Which would explain the non-disclosure agreements. Et voilà, another conspiracy.
Very, very interesting indeed. Good job getting the guy on.
@Polter - Nice. Even if your assessment of Chip is wrong, you stated your points and reasons very well. Too often we can all post statements or opinions but without at least attempting to back it up.
I got the same feeling about Chip in that he really was not milking this whatsoever. He wasn't selling anything either.
Thing about Bigelow is that even the super-rich are not all-powerful, not if it is totally private wealth. Reason being is that for instance, a Richard Branson or Bob Bigelow decide to get into the orbital space/sub-orbital space market, well that immediately puts them squarely above many countries in terms of military threat. The government just cannot afford to have private people launching space vehicles from the US without them getting very worried about industrial and military espionage. The possibility to use such sub-orbital flights for terrorism could be horrendous.
It's like if I invented some new lethal weapon to replace guns and explosives, even if there is no legal category for it yet, no government could afford to ignore totally private enterprise with such huge military applications.
Considering how shy/secretive Bigelow is, I find it hard to think he would reach out to the NSA for instance to ask for help at the ranch. Far more likely that him being so rich or him having an aerospace company, he would automatically warrant an FBI/CIA file at the bare minium. Messing privately with stuff as advanced and dangerous as getting shit into space - well there is just no chance he could say no to the 3-letter agency brigade. He may just have easily have been legally forced to work with them, maybe he is just so patriotic he openly and freely helps. I can tell you for a fact that happens and it happens with far smaller fish than Bigelow.
He just seems like the replacement for Howard Hughes now I think about it. No doubt this is common knowledge and I am just behind everyone else. That happens quite a lot!
I got the same feeling about Chip in that he really was not milking this whatsoever. He wasn't selling anything either.
Thing about Bigelow is that even the super-rich are not all-powerful, not if it is totally private wealth. Reason being is that for instance, a Richard Branson or Bob Bigelow decide to get into the orbital space/sub-orbital space market, well that immediately puts them squarely above many countries in terms of military threat. The government just cannot afford to have private people launching space vehicles from the US without them getting very worried about industrial and military espionage. The possibility to use such sub-orbital flights for terrorism could be horrendous.
It's like if I invented some new lethal weapon to replace guns and explosives, even if there is no legal category for it yet, no government could afford to ignore totally private enterprise with such huge military applications.
Considering how shy/secretive Bigelow is, I find it hard to think he would reach out to the NSA for instance to ask for help at the ranch. Far more likely that him being so rich or him having an aerospace company, he would automatically warrant an FBI/CIA file at the bare minium. Messing privately with stuff as advanced and dangerous as getting shit into space - well there is just no chance he could say no to the 3-letter agency brigade. He may just have easily have been legally forced to work with them, maybe he is just so patriotic he openly and freely helps. I can tell you for a fact that happens and it happens with far smaller fish than Bigelow.
He just seems like the replacement for Howard Hughes now I think about it. No doubt this is common knowledge and I am just behind everyone else. That happens quite a lot!