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Contactee Psychology


So then reading this statement Angelo, you understand what the phenomenon is....now please tell me what you think is behind it by replying:

1. Why it is that almost every abduction case that I have heard about, having the victim describe the entity or entities which perform this terrible fete, all tell of the same "grey" creature as the type of monster/alien/demon whatever doing the nasty deed? And all of them stating this in different periods of history, many without the advantage we have of media driven influences?

2.Why is it that almost every time we read about or are privy to the case reports, that the various operations, both through the skin as in metal implants, anally, orally, etc. happen to the victims almost all inclusively?

3. If as I understand you believe, that the entire scenario is psychological in nature, then how can it be purported that cases happening all over the world, have described the very same entity? Are we to believe that all of them have been privy to the same E.T. description in the past by the media or other?

4. Do you believe in the "spirit" of a human being?

5. If so, do you believe that just the "spirit" can be abducted, and thus the reason why a second person might have been witnessing the dastardly act without anything happening physically to the victim?

Let's start from there.

1. Most of the cases that talk about "greys" seem to be western, so they have probably seen them in media. In previous time periods, people thought they were demons. I.E. Incubus. Also, humans tend to see faces of one kind or another. In a dream like state, the faces may seem to be featureless like those seen by "abductees."

2. I thought the whole anal probe thing was a Whitley Strieber creation.

3. See number 1.

4. We each have our own personalities and consciousness. If you want to call that spirit, that's cool.

5. Nope. That concept seems silly to me. Why complicate things like that? I know I was having a nightmare and my wife saw it. Why are you trying to make more of something?

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------

First off Angel doesn't "know" In My opionion,if he has experienced the "same" thing that Archie Bedford and others here have recounted. His experience seem more "kin" to certain things I've expereinced over the years. I have never seen little grey aliens but have often woken up not able to move and sensing a presence. Real or psycological? I don't know but then again I don't know if there is any difference at that point. Also, since Angel has said he is an athiest then I very much doubt he believes in the human or any other spirit. The problem that I have with fundi Christians or Muslims or avowed atheist or any other "label" is there is no reason to ask them anything at all. The only response from a good Christian is "demonic" or bunk. The only good response from a strong atheist is "bunk" or a mental abberation. Hope I save you two some time. :cool: I lean more into the spirutal/psyhcological perspective. Also, I have had some actual experiences with what some would call "demonic" and can tell you its' different from sleep paralylis or a mental issue. It can mimic it but it's not the same and at it's core it's not that hard to tell it apart. So, at the risk of offending Angel I would say that what he is describing and what some abductees are describing are two different levels of expereince. But, I sound kind of smug and arrogant and for that I apoligise in advance.

Peace.

Tyder, no need to speak for me. Please see my answer.
 
Tyder, no need to speak for me. Please see my answer.

That's why I said "In my opinion" :) Also, the answer you gave was very typical. But, you could give no other considering your worldview. You may be right or you may be wrong. But, I do apologise if I seemed to be speaking for you.

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

Also, I have said many times "I believe in a higher power." So, if somebody said "Steve, what is your opinion of the view of God by Richard Dawkins" You would not be speaking for me by saying "Steve or tyder believes in a higher power so he would never be in agreement with Dawkins." :p But, I do agree that I would have the right to voice my own opinion and so do you. So, I apologize for any offense.
 
Tyder, no need to speak for me. Please see my answer.

That's why I said "In my opinion" :) Also, the answer you gave was very typical. But, you could give no other considering your worldview. You may be right or you may be wrong. But, I do apologise if I seemed to be speaking for you.

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

Also, I have said many times "I believe in a higher power." So, if somebody said "Steve, what is your opinion of the view of God by Richard Dawkins" You would not be speaking for me by saying "Steve or tyder believes in a higher power so he would never be in agreement with Dawkins." :p But, I do agree that I would have the right to voice my own opinion and so do you. So, I apologize for any offense.

No problem. I do believe in the human spirit in the sense that I described in my answer. It's just the way you said I would answer seemed as though you take issue with my views.
 
I'm on a new allergy medicine today and I think I'm picking at stuff just to stimulate myself to stay awake. ;) I more than likely sound kind of snippy but I don't mean to. It has been a hot summer early in the south this year and my allergies seem to be in full swing. I either need to get into the "spirit" of the conversation or just hush. I do happen to believe that consicness survives death and we are more than brain chemicals. I also happen to beleive in the process of evoluction and the fact that chemicals and genes and upbringing and other enviromental forces shape us. I lean toward the pshycological myself most of the time. In part because of my profession. But, I also have a holistic view and think that what we call psycological and demonic might at times be the same thing. Maybe the goal of evolouction is a purley mental entity. Maybe the aliens are us in a future time or maybe we will evolve right out of our bodies and enviroment. Maybe I should write a sci fi novel. Or maybe this silly sinus medication will wear off. ;)

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 PM ----------

Maybe someday I'll use spell check or google it instead of hitting post. :cool:
 
1. Most of the cases that talk about "greys" seem to be western, so they have probably seen them in media. In previous time periods, people thought they were demons. I.E. Incubus. Also, humans tend to see faces of one kind or another. In a dream like state, the faces may seem to be featureless like those seen by "abductees."

Actually Angelo, "grey" abduction is seen throughout the world, in Australia as well as Zambia, Tibet, France, Bucharest and others I can show here. The causality of the phenomenon is world wide as I mentioned earlier, and for it to have been media driven, Ben and Barney Hill in 1961 would have had to have a time machine in which to have taken part in the media....

"During the intensive regression sessions, the Hills would describe their captors as "... bald-headed alien beings, about five foot tall, with greyish skin, pear shaped heads and slanting cat-like eyes." This description very much described what would become known as the "greys," now a standard description for the small beings with large heads, small mouths, and little or no ears, and hairless."

This would preclude the hysteria about "Grey" beings in the media for many years.

2. I thought the whole anal probe thing was a Whitley Strieber creation.

If you are referring to "Communion" here, the following should be of some interest to you:

June 16, 1974. Metcalf, Illinois
Source: http://www.nicap.org/regenc/RegEnc.pdf
Mike Fox. Alien Abduction, Hair samples, nasal implant, anal probe.

I can find many more for you in the .pdf file I include above which purports all sorts of physical violations and abuse. The point is it didn't take Mr. Strieber for the phenomenon to be created Angelo, and the "anal" aspect of even this case predates the 1986 media driven piece by at least 12 years.


3. See number 1.

And as I stated, the phenomenon has happened all over the world, and committed upon people from the far east, to the middle east, and on....So I don't understand your point about just in the, "West"....perhaps you can explain where you get your information from?

Here's just some of the scenarios I have found which show it's not just a "western" claim to fame:

Africa: Elizabeth Klarer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Russia: Kirsan Ilyumzhinov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And there are others.

Believe you me, I wish I could pan this off as some form of neurological happenstance created by the "Western Thinking Mind", but just ONE case happening in another part of the world negates this, especially if it happened years before the media got their hands on the idea.

4. We each have our own personalities and consciousness. If you want to call that spirit, that's cool.

5. Nope. That concept seems silly to me.Why complicate things like that? I know I was having a nightmare and my wife saw it. Why are you trying to make more of something?

This isn't complication for the simple sake of BSing here Angelo. The question was a relevant one because It was given in the context of not being able to know everything that is happening in the conscious or even unconscious state of reality. If a person could have his "spirit" abducted then wouldn't it seem logical that the physical body would stay on this plane in the state it was in when the person fell asleep?
 
I don't really have much to add other than the "grey" aliens were not first described by Betty and Barney Hill. You seem to like Wikipedia, so check out what it says about these types of aliens.
Also, everything you're saying about the spirit is all well and good, but it has no basis in reality. You can make up anything you want if that's the case, no? I know from my experiences, which seem to match very well with the typical abduction scenario, that they are related to sleep disorders and night terrors. Now, if you're saying that my wife was being shown what she saw by the aliens, well, there's not much left for me to discuss with you, as you're making your own rules. For now, I'll stick to something simple, and demonstrated by science, that what happened to me was no more than sleep paralysis.

Coolio?

Thanks.
 
I don't really have much to add other than the "grey" aliens were not first described by Betty and Barney Hill.

Sounds like they were to me:

"bald-headed alien beings, about five foot tall"....That's about the size the Greys are.....

"with greyish skin"......Yep Greyish skin alright.....

"pear shaped heads and slanting cat-like eyes." .....Sounds to me like Greys. What part of this description doesn't sound like the mythical character of the Grey or Gray alien to you?

You seem to like Wikipedia, so check out what it says about these types of aliens.

Huh?

Wikipedia Grey Alien

According to this site, the Grey Aliens are and I quote from Wiki: "as small bodied, sexless beings with smooth grey skin, enlarged head and large eyes. The origin of the idea of the Grey is commonly associated with the Betty and Barney Hill abduction claim, although skeptics see precursors in science fiction and earlier paranormal claims."

Either way, they are still explained by the Hills as almost exactly like what Wiki defines them as, and even what earlier skeptics felt were precursors for what they are commonly referred to today. My original point was that you had "Greys" defined as beings even earlier than Betty and Barney Hill, and Wiki agrees with me here???? So what the heck are you talking about?

Also, everything you're saying about the spirit is all well and good, but it has no basis in reality. You can make up anything you want if that's the case, no? I know from my experiences, which seem to match very well with the typical abduction scenario, that they are related to sleep disorders and night terrors.

Why are you acting like some paranoid delusional for? I never said your experiences as.....never mentioned your feelings on the matter at all! I just wanted to know how you felt about the subject, and asked you to please explain yourself in a manner befitting someone who truly believes in what he says. You instead replied with all sorts of abstract answers and incorrect statements which I couldn't understand, so I politely asked you to explain yourself further. You then replied with more vague explanations than directly answering my questions......such as, "Could it be possible then".....with answers such as "You make up everything...."

I am not looking to "make up a thing".....I was looking to ask if there was a possibility and if so, that to be open minded to the subject would be much better than merely forcing a conclusion without taking in the entire picture and perhaps honestly contemplating my words.

I should have known that your close mindedness wouldn't be worth the time to discuss this subject with you, because the answers I would get would be crass and frank instead of intellectual and relevant for the sake of gentlemanly discussion....whatever.

Now, if you're saying that my wife was being shown what she saw by the aliens, well, there's not much left for me to discuss with you, as you're making your own rules. For now, I'll stick to something simple, and demonstrated by science, that what happened to me was no more than sleep paralysis.

I haven't used your wife or you or anything you are involved with as the comparison to my views or theory's on the matter, but only you have now included your family in this. If you read my posts you will notice I kept it very generic so as to respect both your privacy and your personal feelings. I only wanted to see if you could be a little more open minded than what I should have expected. You are right, this discussion is over because you can't handle expanding your horizons any further than by calling anyone else's ideas, "making our own rules", as if in some way by doing this in order to think out of the box, it's some kind of taboo only you can permit sometimes. Don't act so high and mighty here Angelo, other people writing on this forum can have opinions you should respect.
 
Sounds like they were to me:

"bald-headed alien beings, about five foot tall"....That's about the size the Greys are.....

"with greyish skin"......Yep Greyish skin alright.....

"pear shaped heads and slanting cat-like eyes." .....Sounds to me like Greys. What part of this description doesn't sound like the mythical character of the Grey or Gray alien to you?



Huh?

Wikipedia Grey Alien

According to this site, the Grey Aliens are and I quote from Wiki: "as small bodied, sexless beings with smooth grey skin, enlarged head and large eyes. The origin of the idea of the Grey is commonly associated with the Betty and Barney Hill abduction claim, although skeptics see precursors in science fiction and earlier paranormal claims."

Either way, they are still explained by the Hills as almost exactly like what Wiki defines them as, and even what earlier skeptics felt were precursors for what they are commonly referred to today. My original point was that you had "Greys" defined as beings even earlier than Betty and Barney Hill, and Wiki agrees with me here???? So what the heck are you talking about?



Why are you acting like some paranoid delusional for? I never said your experiences as.....never mentioned your feelings on the matter at all! I just wanted to know how you felt about the subject, and asked you to please explain yourself in a manner befitting someone who truly believes in what he says. You instead replied with all sorts of abstract answers and incorrect statements which I couldn't understand, so I politely asked you to explain yourself further. You then replied with more vague explanations than directly answering my questions......such as, "Could it be possible then".....with answers such as "You make up everything...."

I am not looking to "make up a thing".....I was looking to ask if there was a possibility and if so, that to be open minded to the subject would be much better than merely forcing a conclusion without taking in the entire picture and perhaps honestly contemplating my words.

I should have known that your close mindedness wouldn't be worth the time to discuss this subject with you, because the answers I would get would be crass and frank instead of intellectual and relevant for the sake of gentlemanly discussion....whatever.



I haven't used your wife or you or anything you are involved with as the comparison to my views or theory's on the matter, but only you have now included your family in this. If you read my posts you will notice I kept it very generic so as to respect both your privacy and your personal feelings. I only wanted to see if you could be a little more open minded than what I should have expected. You are right, this discussion is over because you can't handle expanding your horizons any further than by calling anyone else's ideas, "making our own rules", as if in some way by doing this in order to think out of the box, it's some kind of taboo only you can permit sometimes. Don't act so high and mighty here Angelo, other people writing on this forum can have opinions you should respect.

ParaRealitySaint,

As usual, discussing something with you becomes a difficult process. You asked me my feelings, I gave them to you. To me it seems as though you want to start an argument, and I'm not interested. I have an opinion on the topic, you think my mind is closed, so I guess we'll leave it at that.

Good luck.
 
Well, as I've said before I have had the sleep paralysis for years. I can't tell you it's paranormal but I don't know if it's all chemical either. The mind/spirit is a very vast and incredible being/thing/experience. But, it is not the same thing as alien abduction (imo) I say that because if you take the time to really listen to what abducties are saying it is deeper and more detailed than the waking up not able to move scenrio. Actually, had I not had some experience with "lucid dreaming" I would more than likely make the mistake of thinking it was all "explained" myself. But, it's not. Now the abduction expereince might one day be explained as a deeper manifestation of sleep paralysis. Mabe one day you will take a pill and damp down the brain to such an extent that it won't be able to handle or even aknowledge the sensory overload of abduction or even psycological events. But, it still won't prove anything about mind at large or other processes. It's funny how skeptics are always yelling "Read Sagan" Read Dawkins (who isn't in the same leauge as Sagan by the way) and read Sam Harris. Funny but I've read all of them to one degree or another. But, when you say "Read Sheldrake" Read Brian Joeshpson, Read the STanford Reasearch Institute, Read Michael Grosso. All you get is " James Randi did a magic trick and proved em all wrong." OR Well, so and so did a study and the results showed it was to little to matter (lie.) But, that's ok we can still go on and think for ourselves. Bottom line folks. Follow the agenda. If you are getting your perspective on faith from Richard Dawkins and James Randi your a damn fool! If you are getting your perspective on Buddism from Pat Robertson your sadly mislead and foolish. If you are getting your perspective on humanism from Jerry Falwell your not getting the whole truth. Read! Don't just read Sagan or Sheldrake or the Skeptical Inquirer or UFO Magazine. But, mainly if a self avowed athiest tells you something then you need to search a little farther to get balance. If a self avowed Christian tells you something then you need to search a little farther to get perspective. I've been on this journey over 50 years. That in itself doesn't make me smart or wise or more knowing. No fool like an old fool (unless it's a young one.) But, it has given me the perspective not to change my faith everytime a new sceintific theory comes along. Not to embrace young earth creationism everytime a religious movement comes along. I promise you this. There is more than enough evidence and science to justify your belief or non belief in the ufo or any other paranormal experience. But somethings are indeed more likely than others. It is likely that the universe has meaning. It's not very likely that an old man is sitting on a throne in the sky. It's likely that there is life on other planets. It's not as likely that we are being visited by space men/women. It's likely that some part of cosninuisness is seperate from chemicals and brain farts. It's not as likely that bodies rise out of the ground and knit back together at a judgement day. It's likely that we have not found every creature in the world. It's not as likely that a big hairy ape man is roaming the woods in the Pacific Northwest and hiding from people. Anyway, that's my two cents. :)
 
Well, as I've said before I have had the sleep paralysis for years. I can't tell you it's paranormal but I don't know if it's all chemical either. The mind/spirit is a very vast and incredible being/thing/experience. But, it is not the same thing as alien abduction (imo) I say that because if you take the time to really listen to what abducties are saying it is deeper and more detailed than the waking up not able to move scenrio. Actually, had I not had some experience with "lucid dreaming" I would more than likely make the mistake of thinking it was all "explained" myself. But, it's not. Now the abduction expereince might one day be explained as a deeper manifestation of sleep paralysis. Mabe one day you will take a pill and damp down the brain to such an extent that it won't be able to handle or even aknowledge the sensory overload of abduction or even psycological events. But, it still won't prove anything about mind at large or other processes. It's funny how skeptics are always yelling "Read Sagan" Read Dawkins (who isn't in the same leauge as Sagan by the way) and read Sam Harris. Funny but I've read all of them to one degree or another. But, when you say "Read Sheldrake" Read Brian Joeshpson, Read the STanford Reasearch Institute, Read Michael Grosso. All you get is " James Randi did a magic trick and proved em all wrong." OR Well, so and so did a study and the results showed it was to little to matter (lie.) But, that's ok we can still go on and think for ourselves. Bottom line folks. Follow the agenda. If you are getting your perspective on faith from Richard Dawkins and James Randi your a damn fool! If you are getting your perspective on Buddism from Pat Robertson your sadly mislead and foolish. If you are getting your perspective on humanism from Jerry Falwell your not getting the whole truth. Read! Don't just read Sagan or Sheldrake or the Skeptical Inquirer or UFO Magazine. But, mainly if a self avowed athiest tells you something then you need to search a little farther to get balance. If a self avowed Christian tells you something then you need to search a little farther to get perspective. I've been on this journey over 50 years. That in itself doesn't make me smart or wise or more knowing. No fool like an old fool (unless it's a young one.) But, it has given me the perspective not to change my faith everytime a new sceintific theory comes along. Not to embrace young earth creationism everytime a religious movement comes along. I promise you this. There is more than enough evidence and science to justify your belief or non belief in the ufo or any other paranormal experience. But somethings are indeed more likely than others. It is likely that the universe has meaning. It's not very likely that an old man is sitting on a throne in the sky. It's likely that there is life on other planets. It's not as likely that we are being visited by space men/women. It's likely that some part of cosninuisness is seperate from chemicals and brain farts. It's not as likely that bodies rise out of the ground and knit back together at a judgement day. It's likely that we have not found every creature in the world. It's not as likely that a big hairy ape man is roaming the woods in the Pacific Northwest and hiding from people. Anyway, that's my two cents. :)

Tyder, again you're making it black and white. You know I'm a fan of James Randi, right? But do you think I blindly agree with him on everything? Did you know I go for regular acupuncture treatments? Look up what Randi thinks about that, okay? It's not all black and white like that. It's really important to realize that.
Also, just because someone does not believe there's a god, does not mean that they are not spiritual in some way.
 
Angel, your being knee jerk my friend. I made a lot more points in my post than simply saying something about James Randi. I hope your accupunture works out for you. I am older than you but I would love to see and hear you opinons twenty years from now. Not saying you won't be more invested in the skeptical commnity than you are now. But, it would be interesting (that's a compliment by the way cause I think your a smart guy. ) Little to partisan for my taste but still a smart guy. But, anyway please read (although you may already have) the post in context. It was not an attack on your person.
 
I don't really have much to add other than the "grey" aliens were not first described by Betty and Barney Hill.

Betty and Barney Hill did not originally describe the popular grey alien. Betty described creatures with Jimmy Durante-like noses wearing uniforms. Betty's description morphed somewhat over the years if I am not mistaken.

Like UFOs themselves, there are probably more than a few causes behind alien abduction reports. Many of these have to be attributed to mundane causes. If some percentage represents some real otherness intruding into our perception of reality then what are the chances our myths, legends, religions, or pulp fiction is going to accurately describe it? I say zip, zero, none.

People can call them spirits, demons, or djinn but where did these concepts come from? Human beings. How could human beings know anything about such things? Channeling? Inspiration? Divine revelation? What are the chances that sort of information is accurate? I think somewhere between slim and none.

Is some portion of the alien abduction phenomena actually occurring due the actions of some non-human intelligence? I have not seen enough evidence to convince me that is what is actually happening. I don't know what it is, but it could be several different but very human causes. Given I have to make the least amount of assumptions for those I consider those the best bets so far.
 
Angel, your being knee jerk my friend. I made a lot more points in my post than simply saying something about James Randi. I hope your accupunture works out for you. I am older than you but I would love to see and hear you opinons twenty years from now. Not saying you won't be more invested in the skeptical commnity than you are now. But, it would be interesting (that's a compliment by the way cause I think your a smart guy. ) Little to partisan for my taste but still a smart guy. But, anyway please read (although you may already have) the post in context. It was not an attack on your person.

I didn't think it was an attack on me. I was just commenting on it from my perspective. That's all.
 
ParaRealitySaint,

As usual, discussing something with you becomes a difficult process. You asked me my feelings, I gave them to you. To me it seems as though you want to start an argument, and I'm not interested. I have an opinion on the topic, you think my mind is closed, so I guess we'll leave it at that.


Good luck.

Uh oh Angelo, ........you made a FUBAR:)
 
Betty and Barney Hill did not originally describe the popular grey alien. Betty described creatures with Jimmy Durante-like noses wearing uniforms. Betty's description morphed somewhat over the years if I am not mistaken.

Here is the clear explanation of what Betty And Barney Hill explained they saw that day...From their own words:

From The Betty and Barney Hill Abduction, Part 1-UFO Casebook Files

"After the many sessions with Dr. Simon, the following details became evident. The Hills related that their car had stalled, and then the alien craft landed on the road in front of their vehicle, forming a kind of roadblock, hailing them down. They were taken into the craft, and given medical examinations by these aliens, and before being released, were ordered under hypnosis not to recount any of the details of their incident.

The entities were described by the Hills as "...bald-headed alien beings, about five foot tall, with greyish skin, pear shaped heads and slanting cat-like eyes."-- This was the very first mention in UFO folklore of the so-called "greys." The Hills were taken into separate rooms during their examinations. These "tests" involved both physical and mental procedures."

Again, a clear and vivid explanation of the "GREY" alien....There wasn't any variance and they were both asked this in different rooms and at different times.

hillpic3.jpg
From the Site...Looks like Greys to me. Wasn't this from some movie around the time? LOL!
 
Here is the clear explanation of what Betty And Barney Hill explained they saw that day...From their own words:

From The Betty and Barney Hill Abduction, Part 1-UFO Casebook Files

"After the many sessions with Dr. Simon, the following details became evident. The Hills related that their car had stalled, and then the alien craft landed on the road in front of their vehicle, forming a kind of roadblock, hailing them down. They were taken into the craft, and given medical examinations by these aliens, and before being released, were ordered under hypnosis not to recount any of the details of their incident.

The entities were described by the Hills as "...bald-headed alien beings, about five foot tall, with greyish skin, pear shaped heads and slanting cat-like eyes."-- This was the very first mention in UFO folklore of the so-called "greys." The Hills were taken into separate rooms during their examinations. These "tests" involved both physical and mental procedures."

Again, a clear and vivid explanation of the "GREY" alien....There wasn't any variance and they were both asked this in different rooms and at different times.

After the many sessions with Dr. Simon, the following details became evident. The Hills related that their car had stalled, and then the alien craft landed on the road in front of their vehicle, forming a kind of roadblock, hailing them down. They were taken into the craft, and given medical examinations by these aliens, and before being released, were ordered under hypnosis not to recount any of the details of their incident.

The entities were described by the Hills as "...bald-headed alien beings, about five foot tall, with greyish skin, pear shaped heads and slanting cat-like eyes."-- This was the very first mention in UFO folklore of the so-called "greys." The Hills were taken into separate rooms during their examinations. These "tests" involved both physical and mental procedures.

What about this, from wikipedia, which you seem to have completely ignored:

The science fiction writer H.G. Wells, in the article "Man of the Year Million" in 1893, describes humanity transformed into a race of grey-skinned beings, stunted and with big heads. In his 1901 book The First Men in the Moon, Selenites, or natives of the Moon, are described as having grey skin, big heads, large black eyes and wasp stings. He also briefly describes aliens resembling Greys brought down to Earth as food by the antagonists of his more popular novel The War of the Worlds.
In 1933, the Swedish novelist Gustav Sandgren, using the pen name Gabriel Linde, published a science fiction novel called Den okända faran (The Unknown Danger), where he describes a race of extraterrestrials: "[...] the creatures did not resemble any race of humans. They were short, shorter than the average Japanese, and their heads were big and bald, with strong, square foreheads, and very small noses and mouths, and weak chins. What was most extraordinary about them were the eyes – large, dark, gleaming, with a sharp gaze. They wore clothes made of soft grey fabric, and their limbs seemed to be similar to those of humans." The novel was aimed at young readers, and it included illustrations of the aliens.
 
What about this, from wikipedia, which you seem to have completely ignored:

The science fiction writer H.G. Wells, in the article "Man of the Year Million" in 1893, describes humanity transformed into a race of grey-skinned beings, stunted and with big heads. In his 1901 book The First Men in the Moon, Selenites, or natives of the Moon, are described as having grey skin, big heads, large black eyes and wasp stings. He also briefly describes aliens resembling Greys brought down to Earth as food by the antagonists of his more popular novel The War of the Worlds.
In 1933, the Swedish novelist Gustav Sandgren, using the pen name Gabriel Linde, published a science fiction novel called Den okända faran (The Unknown Danger), where he describes a race of extraterrestrials: "[...] the creatures did not resemble any race of humans. They were short, shorter than the average Japanese, and their heads were big and bald, with strong, square foreheads, and very small noses and mouths, and weak chins. What was most extraordinary about them were the eyes – large, dark, gleaming, with a sharp gaze. They wore clothes made of soft grey fabric, and their limbs seemed to be similar to those of humans." The novel was aimed at young readers, and it included illustrations of the aliens.

And your point is? I didn't ignore anything here Angelo, you did! I stated very clearly the point that there were Alien like GREY explanations long before the "MEDIA DRIVEN" identities you hold on to so much, and you were wrong.

Sorry.

And by the way, the last I looked....CASE FILES and Wiki ARE TWO DIFFERENT SITES!!!
 
Haven't follow this real closely that last day or two so forgive me if this has already been answered. So, does that mean the Greys have been in fiction and even story since the 1800's? Show does that mean that somehow the human pysche is attuned to them making them most certainly a real force in human evolution? Or are you saying that since they are in fiction they most certainly were simply stolen by later ufo people either by osmosis or on purpose? Personally, I don't "believe" in the Greys but the work by Nigel Kerner is provocative and I would start there if I were to take them seriously. Anyway, sorry for the butt in. :)
 
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