Contactee Psychology

[Angel of Ioren]

Angel, I like you but ENOUGH already! Sheesse I didn't say anything good or bad about atheist. I used the word in the same context as I used the word religious folks. But, that didn't bother you. I don't mean to be a smart ass but get over yourself dude. I'm not gonna stop posting my thoughts and I'm not gonna stop saying the A-Word. It was just a stream of thoughts.

---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------




Damn, I think Lance and T.O. need to help ya out there man. They don't seem quite as shaky or defensive. Just sayin!

Nothing to be defensive about, so no need to worry.

I love being the punching bag around here.

 

[dyingsun]

Nothing to be defensive about, so no need to worry.

I love being the punching bag around here.

Think of it as a pillow fight.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Think of it as a pillow fight.

I'm not worried, the guardians of light will protect me. Their earthly cultural attache has joined the forum.

 

[dyingsun]

The 'Ashtar Command' informed me. Be in peace.

 

[Hotkafka]

I think in order to address this issue, we have to identify from which psychological perspective/foundation you are coming from. Traditional Freudian-inspired (analytic) or empirically-based models (leaning on the Newtonian-Cartesian paradigm) will accept nothing more than pure materiality, i.e. the notion that the mind is nothing but a reflection and/or reaction to the processes of the universe (or as Ken Wilber puts it, "It's all frisky atoms). Door number two, inspired by the works of Jung and various Eastern-oriented and Western mystic and contemplative models of mind and body, (which now fit neatly under the umbrella-term "Transpersonal") generally see the mind as a symptom of the underlying truth of reality, which is that consciousness is the seed from which all "illusions" of life spring. To put it lightly, this difference has colossal implications for the interpretations of said Contactee phenemenon. One is purely a psychological attempt to adapt to stressors/triggers/imbalances that are overwhelming (and there are varying degrees to which this can be both healthy and unhealthy, i.e. adaptive, neurotic or pathological) and the other, a result of increased access to consciousness -which when put in Jungian terms, suggests exposure to the material of the subconscious or higher conscious (i.e. ascending or descending awareness). Unfortunately, despite the claims or hunches, neither school has the definitive "proof" to lay this age old argument to rest. So... This is where you see the divide at work, and the bandying about of such terminology that implies belief in one school or the other - to the scientist or the psychiatrist a Contactee gets slapped with a a diagnosis plucked from a juicy and reeling list of personality disorders, (Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar with Psychotic features, Psychotic, Schizophreniform, or the ever useful Psychosis NOS, etc.) or an Axis IV diagnosis suggesting a neurological imbalance or even some variety a Sleep D.O., narcolepsy, or sleep paralysis which is usually associated with a Paraomnia - and from those that represent the Transpersonal school; Spiritual Emergence, Awakening, Integration or Self Actualization (which actually fit into both schools), Siddhis, etc. What's interesting to me is each school tries to pathologize the other, claiming each is horribly misled as to the origins of the underlying truth of reality. Irony abounds. And the Transpersonal school is classic for supporting those whom are experiencing such anomolous behavior though enabling, and the later, demoralizing the symptomology as pathological and treating it via the power of pharmaceuticals. My question is, how do we acknowledge the experiences of the Contactee without making a judgement as to the underlying nature of the phenemenon? Succinctly put, you can't. You can only assess the individual by his/her level of functioning, or as Freud aptly put it, "Can he/she work and love?" And if not, no matter what school of thought you are coming from, you have to help that person adapt to the phenomenon via the best methods that work, and those may vary dramatically from person to person, representing a range of techniques from both schools. As to the truth of the phenomenon behind the experience... Perception and personality seem to have the greatest influence on that.

 

[tyder001]

One of the things I've learned in my "line of work" is "sane" people question themselfs. Be they Christian or Buddist or Democrat or Republican or whatever. Insane people NEVER doubt they are right and the rest of the world is either out to get them or just doesn't understand them. That may be one reason that I am so adverse to dogmatic statements of belief or unbelief when it comes to religion or science or u.f.o's or ethical questions. Anyway, just something I've ran into and still run into often in my experience.

 

[Martina]

Well not being a "contactee" and not even knowing any of them personally I can't really speak to this beyond saying that Nancy Leider belongs to the first category, those who are knowing hoaxers. Beyond that I don't care to venture beyond saying I'm generally skeptical.

 

[Hotkafka]

Well not being a "contactee" and not even knowing any of them personally I can't really speak to this beyond saying that Nancy Leider belongs to the first category, those who are knowing hoaxers. Beyond that I don't care to venture beyond saying I'm generally skeptical.

I think to address the psychology of the Contactee seriously we should focus on those persons who are not outright hoaxers but are experiencing the phenemenon which is typically associated with these experiences. This may be a difficult step for some. Certainly these themes translate accross cultures, however the symbology may vary significantly, i.e. aliens/angels/demons/tricksters/guides/Mother Mary/Jesus/Budda/Ascended Masters/Philemon, etc. I tend to lean more to a psychological/ Jungian interpretation - in that the consciousness of both the individual and collective may have access to cultural and universal stores of symbols, and as time progresses these themes tend to change in response to both the personal and communal attempts to integrate and transcend new territory, transcending the old themes of consciousness - this is also known as individuation and self actualization in the psyche. The symbols remain as psychic deposits, but they also tend to change in response to changing cultural and universal currents, which are ascending by design. This process ultimately invigorates the greatest of human and universal potentials, this being the creative process which redresses past themes by creating fresh intertia for new exploration. As for the physical evidence which everyone seems to levy as significant indications of nuts and bolt experiences.... This is not at all new when looking at anomolous experiences across the board. Stigmata, wounds and marks suffered following mystical or spiritual encounters, even the spontaneous manifestation of objects as purportedly produced by Yogis... Physical counterparts to go with anamoulous experiences do not neccessarily eliminate the possibility of a psychological process. The interesting question is in what ways are psychological and physical processes related? -perhaps this gives weight to a Kosmic consciousness argument.

 

[Martina]

I think to address the psychology of the Contactee seriously we should focus on those persons who are not outright hoaxers but are experiencing the phenemenon which is typically associated with these experiences. This may be a difficult step for some. Certainly these themes translate accross cultures, however the symbology may vary significantly, i.e. aliens/angels/demons/tricksters/guides/Mother Mary/Jesus/Budda/Ascended Masters/Philemon, etc. I tend to lean more to a psychological/ Jungian interpretation - in that the consciousness of both the individual and collective may have access to cultural and universal stores of symbols, and as time progresses these themes tend to change in response to both the personal and communal attempts to integrate and transcend new territory, transcending the old themes of consciousness - this is also known as individuation and self actualization in the psyche. The symbols remain as psychic deposits, but they also tend to change in response to changing cultural and universal currents, which are ascending by design. This process ultimately invigorates the greatest of human and universal potentials, this being the creative process which redresses past themes by creating fresh intertia for new exploration. As for the physical evidence which everyone seems to levy as significant indications of nuts and bolt experiences.... This is not at all new when looking at anomolous experiences across the board. Stigmata, wounds and marks suffered following mystical or spiritual encounters, even the spontaneous manifestation of objects as purportedly produced by Yogis... Physical counterparts to go with anamoulous experiences do not neccessarily eliminate the possibility of a psychological process. The interesting question is in what ways are psychological and physical processes related? -perhaps this gives weight to a Kosmic consciousness argument.

uhhhh...yeah, whaterver......

 

[Hotkafka]

uhhhh...yeah, whaterver......

Appreciate the stimulating response. Viva the everyone's a hoaxer theory (balloons erupt followed by gunfire and consumption of energy drinks)! Note: the topic of the thread is the PSYCHOLOGY of the Contactee experience... Your personal beliefs about whether or not it is a hoax really doesn't contribute to the discussion nor the exploration of the underlying processes at work.

 

[Martina]

Appreciate the stimulating response. Viva the everyone's a hoaxer theory (balloons erupt followed by gunfire and consumption of energy drinks)! Note: the topic of the thread is the PSYCHOLOGY of the Contactee experience... Your personal beliefs about whether or not it is a hoax really doesn't contribute to the discussion nor the exploration of the underlying processes at work.

Please do show me where I ever said everyone was a hoaxer.

You are putting words in my mouth and slamming me for them, and that's a very nasty tactic all too common on forums everywhere. Why don't you just take a couple pills and calm down.

 

[Hotkafka]

Please do show me where I ever said everyone was a hoaxer.

You are putting words in my mouth and slamming me for them, and that's a very nasty tactic all too common on forums everywhere. Why don't you just take a couple pills and calm down.

Hmm... Didn't take much to transform you into a victim. In any case, sorry if I misrepresented your views. From what I've read, you've repeatedly stated your skepticism, and that's fine and all, however in this forum that's basically the hanshake that gets you in the door. I'd be interested to hear your perspectives on the subject matter at hand.

 

[Martina]

Hmm... Didn't take much to transform you into a victim.

More nastiness. My you are a hostile one! You attack me, put words in my mouth, and if I call you on it I'm being a "victim." I have no further interest in any exchange with you. <click>

 

[Hotkafka]

More nastiness. My you are a hostile one! You attack me, put words in my mouth, and if I call you on it I'm being a "victim." I have no further interest in any exchange with you. <click>

Not hostile, just replying to an obtuse and deliberately dissmissive statement of
“er, um, whaterver...” Kind of a cause and effect thing. Sorry if I inspired your ire. Lets start over... I should have replied, “does this reply suggest you are not in agreement?" Officially extending the olive branch.

 

[plumbbob12]

New paracast listener. Great topic. In the past, I too was quite skeptical about the contact/abduction phenomena. Hopkins and Jacobs have done such a good job on the data that it seems that something is really going on rather than just hoaxes or delusions. I am still not convinced that these are “real” events. The nature of abductees’ reports is quite contrary to classical physiological disease process. I feel that if there is not some kind of real event occurring, and then this data questions the entire cognitive process of the human mind, which in my book is much more disconcerting than odd folks coming from another planet and messing with us. Cheers.

 

[trainedobserver]

I feel that if there is not some kind of real event occurring, and then this data questions the entire cognitive process of the human mind, which in my book is much more disconcerting than odd folks coming from another planet and messing with us. Cheers.

A great thought provoking comment. One of the things lacking in all Contactee and Abduction cases that I am aware of is the presence of some real and actionable information that we did not otherwise possess or have the present ability to obtain. The classic case would be the "cure for cancer." If one of these incredibly advanced beings from an assuredly equally advanced civilization wanted to get our undivided attention they would communicate just that or something similar. See what I'm getting at? The absence of that type of communication speaks untold volumes about what is actually occurring IMHO. Given the neurological reality of human consciousness, namely that human beings do not directly experience the real world but rather a brain generated representation of a subset of it, leaves a lot of wiggle room in the "cognitive process" so to speak. In general people do not think about the fact that they are only experiencing their minds or consciousness. In general people see everything they experience as "real" when it is far from it.

 

[plumbbob12]

I relate to the idea that if some other race of beings wanted to make them known, they would give us something like "a cure for cancer". The only speculation I would interject would be by analogy.
Suppose a pride of lions in the African delta might notice some strange "beings" with skinny arms, and little body hair looking at them with this weird equipment and wonder what the heck they were doing. Some of the lions might even speculate that these "aliens" might be after their latest zebra kill, or maybe even wanting to mate with their female lions. Some of the very few lions would come back with very strange reports of being out hunting, and the next thing they remember they felt something sting in their rear end, and they could not move there muscles. They half remember these strange creatures hovering over them, and doing weird things to their bodies that they could never understand from there reality. Once they woke up, they found that they were OK, but a bit frightened of these weird creatures and there unknown equipment. They could never know that the humans who were studying them did not really care what that pride of lions thought. The lions, for that matter could never understand the idea of movie pictures, biological studies, fluid samples, DNA, or any number of things we do. Now a skeptic lion might say, "hay, if these things really are interested in us, why don't they de-lice us, or drop a zebra in our paws". Kind of a weird analogy, but I think it makes the point that what we think really does not matter at all, if indeed this abduction event is real. Of course I am still the skeptic lion, and need more reproducible data. Bob

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I relate to the idea that if some other race of beings wanted to make them known, they would give us something like "a cure for cancer". The only speculation I would interject would be by analogy.
Suppose a pride of lions in the African delta might notice some strange "beings" with skinny arms, and little body hair looking at them with this weird equipment and wonder what the heck they were doing. Some of the lions might even speculate that these "aliens" might be after their latest zebra kill, or maybe even wanting to mate with their female lions. Some of the very few lions would come back with very strange reports of being out hunting, and the next thing they remember they felt something sting in their rear end, and they could not move there muscles. They half remember these strange creatures hovering over them, and doing weird things to their bodies that they could never understand from there reality. Once they woke up, they found that they were OK, but a bit frightened of these weird creatures and there unknown equipment. They could never know that the humans who were studying them did not really care what that pride of lions thought. The lions, for that matter could never understand the idea of movie pictures, biological studies, fluid samples, DNA, or any number of things we do. Now a skeptic lion might say, "hay, if these things really are interested in us, why don't they de-lice us, or drop a zebra in our paws". Kind of a weird analogy, but I think it makes the point that what we think really does not matter at all, if indeed this abduction event is real. Of course I am still the skeptic lion, and need more reproducible data. Bob

I'd be satisfied with some decent footage of someone being abducted. So far I have seen nothing that leads me to believe that other wordly beings are responsible for any of these abductions.

 

[trainedobserver]

We're screwing up here by lumping Contactees and Abductees together. In most cases these are two distinct phenomena. Contactees are generally visited by benign entities who wish them to be the conduit of information to the rest of humanity. Abductees are treated like animals and any communication seems to be to calm the individual.

Logically, if a Contactee is meant to communicate some message to humanity they would be given something that would be undeniably from them in the way of new and useful information. They simply have not been to my knowledge.

Abductees are just along for ride most of the time and aren't there to take something back to humanity.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

We're screwing up here by lumping Contactees and Abductees together. In most cases these are two distinct phenomena. Contactees are generally visited by benign entities who wish them to be the conduit of information to the rest of humanity. Abductees are treated like animals and any communication seems to be to calm the individual.

Logically, if a Contactee is meant to communicate some message to humanity they would be given something that would be undeniably from them in the way of new and useful information. They simply have not been to my knowledge.

Abductees are just along for ride most of the time and aren't there to take something back to humanity.

Contactees are usually full of shit or looking for attention.

Some abductees have had something happen to them, although it's usually a psychological issue. I do agree with some views that there MAY be rare cases that they may have actually been abducted, but by regular human beings, not aliens.