Contactee Psychology

[trainedobserver]

Some abductees have had something happen to them, although it's usually a psychological issue. I do agree with some views that there MAY be rare cases that they may have actually been abducted, but by regular human beings, not aliens.

It's hard to tell for sure given the information available. If alien abductions actually are happening it would make me mad as hell that the government whose job is to provide for the common defense, hasn't targeted these bastards, tracked them back to their home world/dimension/cave and nuked the living b-jesus out of them by now. Really. It would speak to an utter failure of the U.S. Military and Intelligence community. If there ever was a righteous use of Nuclear Weapons it would be to atomize the pretentious presumptuous grey bastards and their ilk. Know what I'm saying? It's G.D. war! Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

 

[tyder001]

It could be as mundane as Sleep Paralysis or as sinister as Government experiments. It could be a spiritual expereince or an inter dimensional encounter. Could be a hoax (although I doubt that many folks are faking it.) I agree with trainedobserver about the Karla Turner story. It flies in the face of what I "think" I know about reality. But, it isn't easy to simply dismiss it either. An abduction is something I would more than likely have to expereince myself before I would belive it. Even then my "rational" mind would try to put it into a perspective I could live with.

 

[trainedobserver]

I will have to say this. I have talked to and corresponded with too many people who have experienced abductions to dismiss it as all sleep paralysis or something that is just psychological in nature. These people all say pretty much the same thing and when you can look into their eyes, its hard to dismiss it as just their imagination. I once worked with a very serious fellow who saw a copy of Communion on my desk and confided in me about his experiences. He looked like a NFL linebacker and was a very very smart guy. We spoke of it once and never again. He looked at me with this look ... and said, "Rick, we are not on top of the food chain." Sticks with me to this day.

 

[plumbbob12]

Lets all look at the larger point of the original post. The ideas play out like this:

1) Contactees and Abductions are real: In this case, we need to know the big “why”. This is a very difficult question. Even in our world, dealing with our own species, we cannot understand the thinking patterns of societies not related to our own. An example would be the Australian Aborigines. We have no verbal or social motifs’ to relate to there world view, and cannot understand there thinking processes, and these are humans on our own planet. I doubt that if these phenomena are real, that we could ever really understand a species that is thousands of years ahead of us, and has no social roots we humans could relate too.

2) The contactee phenomena are only in our minds: This is the most worrying prospect to consider. What this implies is that our consciousness’ are somehow linked in order to have some sort of imagined agreed upon “reality”. Let me explain why this is so disconcerting. My undergraduate degree is in chemistry. The scientific method requires that the validly of my hypotheses be demonstrated in the lab, and published in a peer reviewed scientific paper. This kind of documentation would then allow other scientist to follow my processes, and verify my hypothesis, and thus lead to a new theory. This is all well and good, but if our reality is so tenuous, then I can never rely on either my observations, or those of my peers. Using Hopkins, and Jacobs’s data, it seems that there is a universal ‘agreement as to how the “reality” of abductions happens. While this data is all antidotal, so too is the research I conduct in a lab environment. After all, others are taking my word for my observations. They only have my word that I conducted the experiment, and arrived at the results I claim. If others attempt to reproduce my results, then who can say that they were somehow conditioned to “see” the same data, I claim? We must conclude that nothing in our world is verifiable, and this leads to insanity.

So in my book, I would just as soon have some reality that is real and verifiable than consider the idea that we all exist in some sort of dream world. PB.

 

[trainedobserver]

Question: Do you believe that you experience the "real world" or a brain generated simulation of the "real world?"

I think it is pretty much a established neurological fact that we only experience a brain generated representation and that we do not experience the real world directly.What we actually experience as sound, color and somatic input are in reality some sort of brain generated medium that is physically not photons or mechanical sound waves but rather substitutions that represent those things in our consciousness. If you realize this then it is only logical that "reality" as the individual experiences it, is an individually generated thing.

For example: Two people sit at a table on which there is a flower. How many flowers are there? There are three. One in the mind of individual "A" composed of his brain-stuff, one in the mind of individual "B" composed of his brain-stuff, and the real flower sitting on the real table between them. How does this affect scientific observation and experimentation? Should not this play a major role in how things are interpreted?

 

[plumbbob12]

Good points, and this gets to the core of the western materialistic philosophy, i.e. the scientific method. Science deals only with the “material” world. The things that can be weighed, measured, and agreed upon. When we question the idea that reality is an illusion, then we drop out of science and into the world of metaphysics. Not that this is a bad thing, but we must keep the two separate. My point, is that if our reality is so tenuous, that we do not know if we are agreeing on some material thing that our minds actually says we see, or if our minds are making what we see “real” because we all delude ourselves that it is “real”. This would in essence destroy the idea of western science. My education is in the physical sciences, and I like science, but I also realize its limitations. At this time, I have no answers if our world is a delusion, but I can provide some answers using science, so I have to keep an open mind, and use the tools I have at hand.

 

[trainedobserver]

... and I like science, but I also realize its limitations. At this time, I have no answers if our world is a delusion, but I can provide some answers using science, so I have to keep an open mind, and use the tools I have at hand.

I guess it depends on what you mean by delusion. Our individual experienced worlds are demonstrably 3D virtual brain simulations. These 3D virtual brain simulations are sufficient for us to navigate the real world on the other side of our senses and survive in it, however they have their limitations. I don't think this realization causes us to have to abandon science and embrace metaphysics however. Science needs to factor this in to the process is all that needs to happen.

 

[Hotkafka]

I think you can get into some pretty murky waters when you try to reduce experience (or peception of an experience) to brain function -the whole Connectivism argument is wrought with pitfalls. To me, the psyche includes both real and imagined material, energized through experience with external reality as well as interior reality (both subconscious and higher conscious). My point I was trying to make about Contactee experience, is that it is undoubtably an important sub-category of experience, and experience, as far as I'm concerned, is what fuels the evolutionary process of consciousness expansion. Perhaps all this Contactee related ephemera is the expression of the movement of consciousness, another attempt to whip the horses eye, so to speak. Consciousness expands through the conduit of new symbols, which in the end, just end up challenging the pardigm of communal consciousness. Look at the history of religion, people whom were generally considered prophets were talking to beings whom were defining themselves as Gods, Sons of God, Mothers of God, etc. And some of them weren't just talking to higher beings, they considered themselves the higher beings (Bhudda, Jesus, Mohammed...) Now, from the perspective of modern psychology, these could be seen as people whom were just highly invested in their delusions. But what good does it do to label it a delusion, especially when you consider how it affected the evolution of the species here on Earth? The product of a persons investment in their "delusion," and their ability to communicate that "delusion" has a great deal to say for the potential direction of human evolution, as well as planetary and universal evolution. I know, everybody only cares about whether they (the experience or the subject/object relationships in these encounters) are real or not... I would say yes. It really doesn't matter if reality is a shared illusion/delusion or whether or not it's a reflection of brain activity, the symbols and the creation of new symbols is all that matters. The correlation of how these symbols arise in reality and everyday consciousness is no doubt a wildly interesting question to address, however.

An interesting article on the Jungian angle:
http://meta-religion.com/Psychiatry/Analytical_psychology/symbolism_of_ufos.htm

 

[trainedobserver]

To me, the psyche includes both real and imagined material, energized through experience with external reality as well as interior reality (both subconscious and higher conscious).

I wouldn't argue with any of that. I would put it this way. "What takes place on the stage of the mind includes both real and imagined subject material, derived from stimulation from the real world in the form of sensory data and from ancillary processes in the brain/mind system itself." Is it close to what you're saying you think?

My point I was trying to make about Contactee experience, is that it is undoubtably an important sub-category of experience, and experience, as far as I'm concerned, is what fuels the evolutionary process of consciousness expansion.

On the surface that seems like an incredible assumption. To play the devil's advocate, "Couldn't it just as well be a sign of genetic decay within the species?"

It really doesn't matter if reality is a shared illusion/delusion or whether or not it's a reflection of brain activity, the symbols and the creation of new symbols is all that matters.

What do you mean by "reality" here? If there two people looking at one object let's say an apple for example, there is only one "real apple." However, the two people are experiencing independent brain/mind system simulations (mind-apples) of that original "real apple." If person "A" were color-blind his sensory data would cause a mind apple of a different sort to be constructed than person "B" experiences were that person not color-blind themselves. The color-blind example is over simplistic but at least its brief.

I think the UFO and surrounding phenomena are "real world" events. I think they are largely not the products of the human imagination or psyche but rather the human brain/mind system may not be adequate to properly render them which produces bizarre and unreliable results. This could be simply due to the alien nature of phenomena to the human evolutionary cycle or it could be a introduced limitation or something else entirely. I don't know why I want to go off on tangents like that. We don't know what the hell is really going on with this business and that seems to be by design, accidental or no.

 

[plumbbob12]

Good points all, but we need to keep the true unknown in “mind”. We have no idea how our neuron cells work. How does a cell, store life experiences? How does a cell create ideas, or process images? Neuroscience has made good strides in the past decade from mapping the electro signals produced by the brain, but it is analogues to putting a gauss meter on a computer and saying that when one attempts to retrieve a file, this area on the outside of the computer gives a strong signal. Of course, we still do not know how the internal process of the processer works, and only a vague idea of where the work is being done. Of course having used the example of a computer, I find that this example is way overused in neuroscience. Our brains are not silicon chips, and the processes are only analogues to what really happens in our meat sacks. Science is not even close to understanding consciousness. So we have no idea how the EBE’s might be changing our mental landscape. A good example is the idea of hypnosis. We can use it, but still have no idea of how it works. (Of course, once we start down this road, we have an idea how waves, such as magnetic, or gravitational work, but we have no idea of what they really “are”, or how they propagate through a vacuum. All of our mental views are built on analogy, which is only that “shadow in the cave” thing going on)

 

[trainedobserver]

We have no idea how our neuron cells work. How does a cell, store life experiences? How does a cell create ideas, or process images?

I tend to try to view this as a system of processes the exact mechanics of which might only be known by their products. That is to say that the brain/mind system presents a 3D representation to the awareness in some manner. It "renders" the data supplied by the senses into a model of the outside world we normally perceive as being the real world outside of skulls. Just what the material/field/particle that is employed to do this is really beyond me. I suspect since material/field/particle type things are human concepts they might not even apply since all of that is happening "outside" of the simulation we understand as consciousness and in the "real" brain/mind system itself which is beyond our capability to directly experience. I think in considering this you must realize that your apparent P.O.V. from within the simulation is there to give an illusion of separateness, your consciousness actually being the whole of your experience, the awareness (or observer) and the observed being one in the same in substance and identity. Or maybe not. I admittedly know nothing and probably should stick to talking about comic books.

 

[Jonah]

"In the Night, as I was waiting in my wonted solemn Retirement, what might further be administered. I was cast as into a magical Sleep, where I saw my self carried into a Wilderness; where I saw only pleasant, pastoral Walks and Trees, which much suited with my Mind and Inclination there to walk; where I found nothing to disturb my superiour Meditations. In which place I promised my self opportunity, as not willing that either my Name, or Place should be known to any, saving One. But while I was thus pleasured in my reserved state, I suddainly did see one, that was known to me, walking very strait and upright, with a Book reading in his Hand: He seemed to be as one, that would not look awry. But it was said presently, that this Person was a Spy: then presently two more did appear of the Female Sex, both which did make a kind of Assault upon me; but one of the Females was more fierce, and did give my outward Skin a prick, as with a sharp Needle. Upon which I called for Angelical aid to succour me, or else too hard they would be. Whereupon I was parted from them, and saw them in that place no more: A voice, saying, None here shall henceforth come, but such as can agree to walk with thee perfectly. And so the Vision broke up.

The Interpretation

"Some Days after I did further enquire into the more full meaning of this Vision, why such should so conspire against my solitary reserved Life: but especially that one, who was in my Eye of more value, because of a known Life of Truth, and Integrity?

I found this written upon my Heart, Their Eyes must for a while be with-held; they will not you know, till ye can get the new Name engraven, as of precious Stones upon your Forehead. For it was secretly whispered to my Spirit, that in some there might be a refined and spiritual Emulation, as in others a more Gross and Sensual. Both of which I had councel, and caution, how to walk with; so as no occasion of stumbling might be given justly to the gainsaying Spirits: Whose pryings were to see how we would walk, while in the Wilderness state." - Jane Leade, March 22nd, 1677

It is entirely possible that the contactee/abductee phenomena are but two side of the same coin, albeit with entirely different psychologies inherent in each side. Is it possible to truly know one without the other from a scientific perspective? Throw in human subjectivity and you may have a substantially indecipherable (to us) mess.

I have also read many accounts of what would be called classically "abduction" and yet there seems to still be an inherent spiritual aspect to the event. A classic example of this can be found in the Hill case. Barney Hill, in the midst of of terror when first and finally coming to terms with what he is viewing through his binoculars, suddenly becomes calm and states to Betty "Maybe this will prove the existence of God?". One really has to ask, where the hell did that come from? (pun intended). There are of course many other examples of this aspect of the abduction phenomena, examples that I would caution anyone interested in the subject not to too easily dismiss.

Would the above statement uttered by Barney Hill (while under hypnosis) constitute his membership in both the Abduction -AND- Contactee category?

 

[Hotkafka]

I wouldn't argue with any of that. I would put it this way. "What takes place on the stage of the mind includes both real and imagined subject material, derived from stimulation from the real world in the form of sensory data and from ancillary processes in the brain/mind system itself." Is it close to what you're saying you think?

It's close. However, I wouldn't limit the container for consciousness as simply the brain. My conception of the mind/brain complex would include acess to multiple layers of consciousness: Personal, communal (the communal unconscious), Transpersonal (or Kosmic). Ancillary processes would be limited to the personal, and communal to some extent. ...And there's associated experiences with access to each of these layers of consciousness -because the brain has to process these experiences, to some extent.

On the surface that seems like an incredible assumption. To play the devil's advocate, "Couldn't it just as well be a sign of genetic decay within the species?"

A grim spin indeed! It could be, but the fact that Contactee Experience has arisen during the age of anxiety and technological explosion seems too coincidental for me. Seems like a pretty apt metaphor for the alienation that comes with marginalization and multiculturalism. Plus, the whole genetic decay proposition seems to reflect the greater trend of pathologization of alternate states of consciousness by the medical model. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm only implying it.

What do you mean by "reality" here? If there two people looking at one object let's say an apple for example, there is only one "real apple." However, the two people are experiencing independent brain/mind system simulations (mind-apples) of that original "real apple." If person "A" were color-blind his sensory data would cause a mind apple of a different sort to be constructed than person "B" experiences were that person not color-blind themselves. The color-blind example is over simplistic but at least its brief.

I think the UFO and surrounding phenomena are "real world" events. I think they are largely not the products of the human imagination or psyche but rather the human brain/mind system may not be adequate to properly render them which produces bizarre and unreliable results. This could be simply due to the alien nature of phenomena to the human evolutionary cycle or it could be a introduced limitation or something else entirely. I don't know why I want to go off on tangents like that. We don't know what the hell is really going on with this business and that seems to be by design, accidental or no.

I think we don't know what's going on because we're still struggling with understanding the nature of consciousness. How interior consciousness affects exterior reality is not a really popular issue in the scientific mainstream. And, even if it were, it might have nowhere to go. But I'm somewhere in the middle of all this, there does seem to be a nuts and bolts aspect of this phenemenon, but I'm not convinced this isn't psychic in nature.

 

[plumbbob12]

[“The whole genetic decay proposition seems to reflect the greater trend of pathologization of alternate states of consciousness by the medical model". I’m sorry, but what the hell are you talking about???? Are you trying to say that the more genetic changes occur, the more probable it is for us to experience a physiological disease model, or state? And what the heck do you mean when you say: “How interior consciousness affects exterior reality is not a really popular issue in the scientific mainstream”. How do we know what is interior about consciousness, or for that matter what is exterior about “reality”. Words have meaning. I would like to know your ideas, but you are loosing me. Humor me, and talk like we are having a couple of beers, and not attempting to impress each other. I suspect that you might have some very good ideas to bring to the table

---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------

 

[Hotkafka]

[“The whole genetic decay proposition seems to reflect the greater trend of pathologization of alternate states of consciousness by the medical model". I’m sorry, but what the hell are you talking about???? Are you trying to say that the more genetic changes occur, the more probable it is for us to experience a physiological disease model, or state? And what the heck do you mean when you say: “How interior consciousness affects exterior reality is not a really popular issue in the scientific mainstream”. How do we know what is interior about consciousness, or for that matter what is exterior about “reality”. Words have meaning. I would like to know your ideas, but you are loosing me. Humor me, and talk like we are having a couple of beers, and not attempting to impress each other. I suspect that you might have some very good ideas to bring to the table

---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------

Dude. You're completely misreading what I wrote - and that may not be your fault, there's more than a good chance I wasn't all that clear. Anway, I've had a painfully long day at work, I'll get back to this tomorrow and try to clarify. And damn, getting a little parental with the whole "words have meaning" bit.

 

[Ron Collins]

It's hard to tell for sure given the information available. If alien abductions actually are happening it would make me mad as hell that the government whose job is to provide for the common defense, hasn't targeted these bastards, tracked them back to their home world/dimension/cave and nuked the living b-jesus out of them by now. Really. It would speak to an utter failure of the U.S. Military and Intelligence community. If there ever was a righteous use of Nuclear Weapons it would be to atomize the pretentious presumptuous grey bastards and their ilk. Know what I'm saying? It's G.D. war! Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

I have often wondered if this doesn't play in to a official denial policy. Imagine putting yourself in a world where alien abductions actually happen. If a government were to announce to its people that there are technologically controlled craft able to invade our airspace and abduct our citizenry at will and there is nothing they can do about it. How would the citizenry respond? Much like your statement above I would bet.

At least while they keep up the official denial policies and support mockery of anyone remotely associated with the phenomenon we are blissfully kept ignorant and able to go about our daily lives.

If this were happening and I were involved in making policy I would certainly do the same thing. I think it would be less about the collective ability of the people to accept that there is other life out there and more about what they expect the military and the government to do about it.

---------- Post added at 06:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 AM ----------

So I am coming way late to this party. Sorry. I have a few thoughts to toss into the fray. Like others have suggested I would separate abductees and contactees.

Abductees sometimes have physical marks or even implants to point to. Also, the experience seems to be more clinical and invasive from both a psychological and physical standpoint. If believed, abductees are physically handled and then via some unknown process have their short term memories altered.

Contractees on the other hand rarely have anything physical happen to them. Sure some claim to have taken rides through the solar system on a spaceship but they rarely are in direct physical contact with the beings. Oh and they never get anything technical right. Ever. People have tried asking things like basic trajectory math problems, star compositions, semi-advanced chemistry, etc. Yet they never com up with the right answers. Ever. Oh they can tell you about the sociopolitical structures of the aliens and how they take a crap but they cant get answers to rudimentary questions from a space faring society.

My perceptions are that 95% of contractees are hoaxing and 5% I think actually believe that they are in communication with something other than their own mind. To date I find absolutely no contractee story compelling in any way. There are about a billion ways to logic trap these people into reveling (through ignorance) that it is all in their head. They have heard most of these and most have some pathetic defensive stammering that in their minds will deflect the attack and minimize any real damage to their story.

Abductions on the other hand are far more interesting.

 

[Hotkafka]

Contractees on the other hand rarely have anything physical happen to them. Sure some claim to have taken rides through the solar system on a spaceship but they rarely are in direct physical contact with the beings. Oh and they never get anything technical right. Ever. People have tried asking things like basic trajectory math problems, star compositions, semi-advanced chemistry, etc. Yet they never com up with the right answers. Ever. Oh they can tell you about the sociopolitical structures of the aliens and how they take a crap but they cant get answers to rudimentary questions from a space faring society.

Problematic for sure. However, I'm guessing this may indicate a etiological failure in that the person doesn't have the proper schema to interpret such data. Maybe....

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Also, let me tell you, in the dark, a cat TOTALLY looks like the traditional "gray" alien.

Cats don't have big heads and grays don't have pointy ears. Or a tail. Plus cats are small.

I think the whole sleep paralyses thing is nonsense. Every experience I have had was when I was wide awake, and perfectly able to move. So while some people might suffer from some form of sleep paralyses, it doesn't explain the experiences of most of the experiencers. Or when there are multiple people involved, as has been the case with me.

Also sleep paralyses doesn't cause physical affects, like mystery scratches all over your back, which has happened to me on several occasions.

I'll also go on record as saying I don't think any of this has to do with "aliens". I think it's all something much weirder, and that includes UFOs.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Cats don't have big heads and grays don't have pointy ears. Or a tail. Plus cats are small.

I think the whole sleep paralyses thing is nonsense. Every experience I have had was when I was wide awake, and perfectly able to move. So while some people might suffer from some form of sleep paralyses, it doesn't explain the experiences of most of the experiencers. Or when there are multiple people involved, as has been the case with me.

Also sleep paralyses doesn't cause physical affects, like mystery scratches all over your back, which has happened to me on several occasions.

I'll also go on record as saying I don't think any of this has to do with "aliens". I think it's all something much weirder, and that includes UFOs.

If you could prove that what has happened to you is beyond human comprehension, you would be able to blow this whole thing wide open. I agree with you that it has nothing to do with aliens. The human mind it capable of creating truly bizarre experiences.

Also, the sleep paralysis thing is NOT non-sense. I've had it and it's terrifying. It happened last night actually and i saw all kinds of weird things. My wife though just saw her dumb ass husband waking her up with his bizarre sleep issues.

 

[tyder001]

I admittedly know nothing and probably should stick to talking about comic books.

That's how I often feel. Maybe we do get more wisdom as we get older. I know that back when I was a child (waaaaaay b4 the interwebs) Heaven and all wisdom was a Batman comic and a ice cream cone. Impossible to beat combination.