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Colin Andrews - Crop circles and New Age 'energy'

I do not want to seem disrespectful, but I found that the references to a certain Swiss farmer and a certain "Doctor" made it a little harder to accept what Mr Andrews was "claiming".

I always want to speak freely, so sorry if this sounds rude but:
He (Mr Andrews) in my opinion, has positioned himself with great cunning and guile, and is obviously well versed in sceptical arguments.

In a nutshell I think that the interview was very telling, because the more he said the less I accepted ("give a man enough rope"), it appears to me at least, that the "goalposts" have been moved on numerous occasions, and I would not be suprised if they were so again.


I think it is also important to state that I do not think he is dishonest, and genuinely believes what he is saying, I just feel that what he believes does not ring true, for me at least.
 
Well, a photon (which is theoretical mind you) is not "a bundle of light energy." A photon is defined as "a particle representing a quantum of light or other electromagnetic radiation. A photon carries energy proportional to the radiation frequency but has zero rest mass."

Both the proton and the photon have capacities to do work expressed as energy. See this discussion on Scientific Principles which may help.
Thank you.
 
I'm ~50% through the episode and I'm afraid that I would agree with the topic poster about New Age. I'm sorry but I really don't understand how New Age approach will help us to resolve the Crop Circle mystery or any other for that matter. New Age view lies in a phylosophical roam at best,

I don't know any other tool apart from science to explore this world and uncover this mysteries. But here is an important thing about science - it won't lead us nowhere if it won't open to new concepts, new ideas and won't be willing to say - we don't know the answer yet, keep digging!

Given that Colin is the person who has dedicated so many ears to the phenomena I feel sad that even he has failed to present any information that maybe considered as a scientific research.

I wouldn't argue with the statements about leading and not being lead but this is the point for another discussion, it does not help to bring us closer to solving this mystery.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I suppose to be really fair, we should read his book before making any final judgements? At the very least, Chris said it was full of interesting anecdotes, if not ultimate solutions and answers?
 
and that's the paranormal realm in a nutshell, "full of interesting anecdotes." Too often we create believable ideas about other people's ideas just from the stories they tell and we retell, but it's just our version of the events. Like the infamous Ghost Hunters couple Ed and Lorraine Warren, now single, since Ed Warren's death, their entire ghost hunting history is nothing but a series of stories that are retold, magnified, mythologized, then dramatized by hollywood, believed as gospel and franchised at a theatre near you; & so too is much of the paranormal world and aspects of UFO lore and supposed history, even if it's simply invented.

crop_circles_4003.gif


Crop circles look a lot different when you start to look at them as design patterns, or how they are constructed, or even that ridiculous digital alien face that smiled mockingly for the camera. And then when you read the history of the artists who started making these you kind of get a sense of what i'm talking about in this repeating paradigm of how the paranormal is made. Stories are told, and the shared narrative of the crop circles then becomes almost religious in many ways and ultimately they form belief systems.

"The nocturnal pastime of circle making was made popular by the work of two Hampshire-based artists, Doug Bower and Dave Chorley. For over 12 years their simple circle sets attracted the interest of scientists world-wide. During this time other artists began them, eventually superseding them, and continued a chain reaction - mutating from the UFO lore from which it still suckles and, in turn, nourishes - to become what is arguably the most mysterious 'tactile- paranormal' phenomenon this century. In 1991, Doug & Dave's claim to original authorship created an atmosphere well known to theological sociologists; that discomfirmation can lead to strengthened belief. Consistent with previous millennial activity, the religious use of pseudo science to plot our destiny has reached another high... the circles have become signs and portents of our time."

¤ c i r c l e m a k e r s ¤

"Ok, but, here's the thing," says db in earnest. They are just so damn amazing looking. They are stunning fractal mazes patterned in rhythms across fields. They are big epic art. But they also seem to tap into something primal about how we respond to one of the eternal symbols: the circle. Neverending, no beginning nor end, cyclical as the generational begetting we humans get up to on the planet, worshiping sun gods and lunar gods. We are the circle and we are the circlemakers. It's easy to see how one could get a good vibe off of the whole thing. Like who doesn't want to stand in the middle of these circles and get their groove on?!

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I just wonder if we are the UFOmakers too, or at least to what extent we are creators in that specific phenomenon.
 
microwave tech has come along way since the nazis invented it to cook food on the western front. its not a big leap for one to even entertain the idea of maser satellites now before being quick to drink the alien entity kool aid.
 
Andrews seems all over the map. He comes across as split over whether crop circles are communication from non-human entities expressed through human agents, or whether they are laid down by more direct means still amenable to scientific study. Or maybe he thinks they come in both varieties. Or I may have missed his central point.

I have one observation about crop circles (expressed here before), regarding the difficulty in teams of people executing the kinds of precision and coordinated movements needed to produce intricate results. It is one thing to agree that, for whatever reason, people are out stamping around in the dark with simple tools to produce complex patterns. The missing ingredient, to my mind anyway, is the level of choreography needed to do this with little or no (?) error. Exactly how are the movements planned and coordinated? Are they practiced ahead of time? What is their rate of error resulting in botched results? A considerable level of dedication would be required at any rate.

So there would need to be complex advance planning of some kind. Perhaps the end product has a kind of geometric emergent property in which simple movements produce complex results? I'm not sure this aspect of the phenomenon has been adequately addressed. But then, my reading on the subject is years behind.

As for whether the plant material itself has been changed at the molecular level or just plain mashed down: If researchers cannot agree on so fundamental a point, then the entire field of cereology is in deep kimchi.
 
Andrews seems all over the map. He comes across as split over whether crop circles are communication from non-human entities expressed through human agents, or whether they are laid down by more direct means still amenable to scientific study. Or maybe he thinks they come in both varieties. Or I may have missed his central point.

I have one observation about crop circles (expressed here before), regarding the difficulty in teams of people executing the kinds of precision and coordinated movements needed to produce intricate results. It is one thing to agree that, for whatever reason, people are out stamping around in the dark with simple tools to produce complex patterns. The missing ingredient, to my mind anyway, is the level of choreography needed to do this with little or no (?) error. Exactly how are the movements planned and coordinated? Are they practiced ahead of time? What is their rate of error resulting in botched results? A considerable level of dedication would be required at any rate.

So there would need to be complex advance planning of some kind. Perhaps the end product has a kind of geometric emergent property in which simple movements produce complex results? I'm not sure this aspect of the phenomenon has been adequately addressed. But then, my reading on the subject is years behind.

As for whether the plant material itself has been changed at the molecular level or just plain mashed down: If researchers cannot agree on so fundamental a point, then the entire field of cereology is in deep kimchi.



Here is how they do it:
part 1 of 18
 
boomerang raises a curious point- why are all reported/recorded circles, at least those with intricate patterns, always so flawless? Give me a board and some rope in a dark field, I'd be lucky to spell my name good enough to make out from high above. Once you goof a couple yards while creating a pattern, it's not like you can go back erasing the area and starting over. One would expect such errors enough in some of these more complex patterns, making it obvious human error. Some of these more complex patterns, you would expect errors, tried corrections, or even a frustrated group abandoning their project midway. There may be such cases, just none reported that I've seen.
 
Hard show to sit through from start to finish. The "science" this individual put forth at best grossly incorrect .The dancing on the grave of Art Bell's show. All the new age feces, lack of critical thinking by everyone. Host and guests alike.
It does appear the show is suffering from fatigue. The paracast is starting to circle the drain by putting forth shows like this. It leads me to believe it is not about getting to bottom of anything. It is about how many downloads the show is getting, how much traffic you can generate.
Gene you should listen Don Ecker's show, DMR, you have lost your way.
 
Yes I been wondering about the "Energy" terminology which is used and Colin being a Engineer would understand its meaning. Therefore more depth conversation on what types of "Energy" does the so called crop circles create?

It's absurd from the get go.

boomerang raises a curious point- why are all reported/recorded circles, at least those with intricate patterns, always so flawless?

They are not! It's a myth, and one that crop circle researchers wish to propagate. Matthew Williams addresses this fallacy in several of his videos and interviews.

I would say that the crop circle mystery has been solved. It is just that there are a good many people who, like Collin, have so much invested in non-human created crop circles that they cannot acknowledge the obvious truth.
 
Its like the UFO field don't know what fheck it is but folks keep telling us . That's why I listen to Darkmatters and Paracast where questions are asked not some true believer jive. Regarding the Colin Andrews show its was a entertaining show which granted strong element of true believer. Lancemoody question have you ever had any paranormal events in your childhood or adulthood? Also you always make me laugh thanks mate.
 
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boomerang raises a curious point- why are all reported/recorded circles, at least those with intricate patterns, always so flawless? Give me a board and some rope in a dark field, I'd be lucky to spell my name good enough to make out from high above. Once you goof a couple yards while creating a pattern, it's not like you can go back erasing the area and starting over. One would expect such errors enough in some of these more complex patterns, making it obvious human error. Some of these more complex patterns, you would expect errors, tried corrections, or even a frustrated group abandoning their project midway. There may be such cases, just none reported that I've seen.

But what we know about the makers is that these are experts in the field, so to speak. They are hired by corporations around the world to create ads in the golden wheat near you. There's nothing arbitrary about their math, measurments and designs. These are efficient artists who obviously can make these things in the dark. The more you think about it the more the notion that UFO's or Gaia is responsible gets quite silly. And yet, it is what filled the question bank. Hmmm....

Harder questions about things called, mysteries or paranormal events need to be asked and new lenses used to frame, and even more importantly, debate the subject matter. If we only look at these events through the tunnel vision of others then it's time to get out the crystals and start vibrating onto higher planes.
 
…Harder questions about things called, mysteries or paranormal events need to be asked and new lenses used to frame, and even more importantly, debate the subject matter. If we only look at these events through the tunnel vision of others then it's time to get out the crystals and start vibrating onto higher planes.
COOL! umm lemme grab my smoky quartz and ahh, yeah, this black tourmaline here... and an aquamarine (for birthstone clarity)... OK I'm ready... start the vibrations...

We'll see what one of the circlemakers Mathew Williams has to say a week from Sunday. Its my guess that this supposedly "obvious" scenario is more involved than we think. Just my hunch...
Be sure to post your questions here:
 
Was not a bad show. Gene and Chris you did a good job as always but crop circles are not really my thing I guess so it was hard to hold my attention to this one.
However having Mathew Williams on the show could be very interesting indeed ... hit us with it :)
 
In Colin's example of meditating about a Celtic cross and asking if it could be produced in a farm near his home, he says that a farmer he knew called him to inspect a formation in a field close to his home, but that he wasn't aware that the field had plants growing in it. So although he knew the farmer and therefore probably knew that his field was close to his house, we're supposed to believe he didn't know there were plants growing in his field, as well as presume that he had no relationship with the farmer who he said he knew. Sift out the hypno-regression, claims of alien abductions, mythology, and the lack of substantial evidence for all these claims, and all we've got left is some vegetation flattened in patterns that remains unexplained.

If this rather poor evidence is meant to be some sort of communication between aliens and us, it's got to be the most inefficient way possible that despite hundreds ( strike that ), thousands of examples have told us nothing new ( other than that many crop circles actually have been created by people ), and conveniently facilitates all these unverifiable claims that revolve around the promotion of books, videos, calendars, websites, and whatever else on the subject. I'm sorry but when all this comes together I do that thing where I start involuntarily shaking my head. I'm prepared to acknowledge that there's not a fortune to be made in the business of "cereology", but don't write a book, go on air to promote it and then say, "I didn't ask to become a public figure" ( 1:10:05 )

The sample testing Colin mentioned where the rationale that because microwaves seem to have been involved in some samples, that such samples could be used to differentiate between the manmade and the "real thing" is unsupported. Specifically, microwaves are controllable and creatable by humans, so how can we be so sure that these effects weren't created by humans? We can't, yet Colin has leapt to the conclusion that it wasn't done by humans, and further implies that because they weren't believed to be created by humans, they must be created by non-humans.

Psychadelic Alchemist's question was really good and Colin's answer that he just doesn't believe humans have the technology isn't reason enough to rule it out. It is entirely possible that humans have technology to create patterns in vegetation using DEW technology from air or space. Therefore it shouldn't be arbitrarily ruled out. It's far more likely than explaining crop circles as alien communication. Plus it just makes more sense. It's even circumstantially supported by his conspiracy theory involving the government being involved in follow-up investigations.

Then there's the Steven Greer comparison, and he's almost coming across as wanting to become the SG of cereology. As for the comment, "We shouldn't throw anybody's opinion out." I ask, why not? No doubt some deserve to be thrown out, that is unless you want to validate witches, transports from Hell, and the like. I'm fine with the idea that Orbs of a certain type ( the NL series ) are real, but seeing one fly out of a cloud one night doesn't mean it was necessarily even alien, or that it's responsible for creating crop circles.

Glowing spots in the air over crops are more likely to represent the focal point of a DEW type weapon than an alien craft trying to communicate with us. These days there are also a lot of remote control craft that can move quickly and perform amazing maneuvers. So nowadays they can't be ruled out either. They may not be able to cause crops to form into patterns, but these glowing objects aren't always seen at the same time as crop circles are formed either.
 
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COOL! umm lemme grab my smoky quartz and ahh, yeah, this black tourmaline here... and an aquamarine (for birthstone clarity)... OK I'm ready... start the vibrations...

We'll see what one of the circlemakers Mathew Williams has to say a week from Sunday. Its my guess that this supposedly "obvious" scenario is more involved than we think. Just my hunch...
Be sure to post your questions here:
Yes, Chris, I too can feel my chakras stirring with such crystalline talk. But in looking up Mathew I found this rather mundane look at crop circle fails and why all the good crop circle makers have moved on to sand circles. And from the comments Williams makes in this article I get more of a feeling that cereology is making a mystical mountain out of well bent rye.
Worst crop circles ever! What happened to the patterns that delighted and baffled the world? | Mail Online

So I wonder if Williams' hay fever has left him with only 'paranormal' stories to tell since he can't make his art and get interviewed for that anymore? Either way, I'm always interested in the unique stories and anecdotes and look forward to this follow up show.
 
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