Alien Perspective Neo-style

[marduk]

I remember a time when 1 megabyte of RAM was mind blowing. The next 100 years will be mind blowing... now imagine several thousand years. A galactic scale will seem microscopic to a neo-style managing civilization set up with fully automated alarm systems all over the place (the all seeing eye).

Eye see you

I'm not sure that's what Randall was getting at.

Energy is a lot different than computation or memory storage. Energy is finite and bounded. It would take a crapload of energy to do what you're proposing could be happening. A sizeable fraction of the energy that actually exists in the galaxy, I'd think.

And to achieve something that is far more easily achieved in other ways, I'd think, and has a very small benefit.

Think about it in an economic sense: what would the ROI be on that energy expenditure?

 

[marduk]

What I'm worried about is earth's ecosystem collapse before when can develop viable artificial gravity and radiation protection solutions.
How Radiation in Space Poses a Threat to Human Exploration (Infographic)

Yep, it's a problem. Have you read SevenEves by Stephenson? It's a pretty good take on one way to get it done.

Radiation is a pretty simple problem tackled in three different buckets that you can add up together. One is with simple mass - put dense stuff between you and the radiation source. The second is with energy - drive a high enough magnetic field and you can reduce it, just like the earth does. The third is with biology - some life forms are very radiation-tolerant.

 

[Ezechiel]

I'm not sure that's what Randall was getting at.

Energy is a lot different than computation or memory storage. Energy is finite and bounded. It would take a crapload of energy to do what you're proposing could be happening. A sizeable fraction of the energy that actually exists in the galaxy, I'd think.

And to achieve something that is far more easily achieved in other ways, I'd think, and has a very small benefit.

Think about it in an economic sense: what would the ROI be on that energy expenditure?

Look at car tech... as tech advances it becomes more efficient (doing more with less). If there is any validity to ideas such as the 'bulk' and dark energy, they would be exploited. Within 20 years our civilization will try out nuclear fusion reactors which should give us a nice quantum leap in energy management (works on paper).

 

[marduk]

Look at car tech... as tech advances it becomes more efficient (doing more with less). If there is any validity to ideas such as the 'bulk' and dark energy, they would be exploited. Within 20 years our civilization will try out nuclear fusion reactors which should give us a nice quantum leap in energy management (works on paper).

At the end of the day, you cannot create energy the way you can create computation capacity.

You push energy around in this universe, and lose some of it every time you do.

 

[Randall]

I remember a time when 1 megabyte of RAM was mind blowing. The next 100 years will be mind blowing... now imagine several thousand years. A galactic scale will seem microscopic to a neo-style managing civilization set up with fully automated alarm systems all over the place (the all seeing eye).

When you start talking about intergalactic managers that see single galaxies as microscopic, it makes me doubt that you're getting the sheer scale that would be required, and besides that, if that is really what is going on, then it's happening in a rather uncoordinated and haphazard way that is indistinguishable from natural evolution. However if our universe is some sort of vast computational construct, then the idea becomes possible, but from a different perspective.

That's why when I first commented I added the qualifier regarding the premise, that the hypothetical race we're talking about was within this universe. We're also talking about micromanaging things, and that doesn't really seem either sensible or evident on a grand scale here on the inside. However a race of universe creators on the outside that aren't micromanaging everything is a whole other concept. This would be a "Grand Neo-Style" approach, and it's my personal favorite.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

The problem with the debate about life elsewhere is that right now, we are the black swan.

We need to get off this rock and go look for other ones.

Indeed which means science needs to open its minds to other concepts and instead of infighting over black project in a number of nations around the World. Furthermore, to go somewhere you need to a reference points in the universe to search for life or just keep traveling while missing the bloody lot. Like the Paracast working together to find answers not infighting. Is it a good idea to be summoning ET?.

 

[Ezechiel]

When you start talking about intergalactic managers that see single galaxies as microscopic, it makes me doubt that you're getting the sheer scale that would be required, and besides that, if that is really what is going on, then it's happening in a rather uncoordinated and haphazard way that is indistinguishable from natural evolution. However if our universe is some sort of vast computational construct, then the idea becomes possible, but from a different perspective.

That's why when I first commented I added the qualifier regarding the premise, that the hypothetical race we're talking about was within this universe. We're also talking about micromanaging things, and that doesn't really seem either sensible or evident on a grand scale here on the inside. However a race of universe creators on the outside that aren't micromanaging everything is a whole other concept. This would be a "Grand Neo-Style" approach, and it's my personal favorite.

I stop at galactic managers which is already pretty wild. Distances between galaxies are stupendous... although the Canis Major dwarf galaxy could be considered part of ours. Civilizations have different objectives/needs at different scales

At present, the closet known galaxy to the Milky Way is the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy – aka. the Canis Major Overdensity. This stellar formation is about 42,000 light years from the galactic center, and a mere 25,000 light years from our Solar System. This puts it closer to us than the center of our own galaxy, which is 30,000 light years away from the Solar System.

For a galactic scale manager, I'd put survival and safety/security as one of the first priorities... thus justifying this crazy thread. I figure the Maslow hierarchy of needs in a galactic environment needs a refresh

 

[marduk]

If you could manipulate an entire galaxies biosphere, why would survival be a problem?

It would seem the least of its concerns.

 

[Ezechiel]

If you could manipulate an entire galaxies biosphere, why would survival be a problem?

It would seem the least of its concerns.

It all starts with the top of the pyramid... the first civilization to sneak by E=MC2 in the galaxy (first billion years of this galaxy). It's really an evolutive thing. You'll want to set local area standards, eliminate local competition and expand/cascade to the rest of the galaxy.

You don't know what you'll encounter and initially won't know how you'll deal with creatures/constructs that you definitely don't want to see propagate and become a menace (Friedman quarantine).

This model is basically human history extrapolated and working at a galactic scale. Given a billion years... you've become the all-seeing and controlling eye lol

Annuit Coeptis: Favor Undertakings in the name of Jupiter, sky King of the Gods ?
New Order of the Ages...
Trickling down... pyramid-scheme style lol

 

[marduk]

It be easier to just sterilize the galaxy, wouldn’t it?

Provoking one of the supermassive black holes in the core to go all gamma ray burstiness would probably take care of a lot of that.

 

[Han]

It be easier to just sterilize the galaxy, wouldn’t it?

Provoking one of the supermassive black holes in the core to go all gamma ray burstiness would probably take care of a lot of that.

Although that is a bit messy, why not just nip it in the bud?

 

[Han]

What I mean is that if you are that powerful you stop it before it was a problem

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Indeed and maybe the universe is just one of millions of petri-dish and the higher intelligence which inhabit are just doing experiments of perfection in order to make a perfect species for design or slavery? Also if they find evidence like Dr Brandenburg's theory on Mars is correct and no other intelligence is ever found maybe it hints of the dimensional angle of the superior lifeforms may of evolved into parallel Worlds.

 

[marduk]

Although that is a bit messy, why not just nip it in the bud?

I'm a brute force kind of dude.

 

[Han]

I'm a brute force kind of dude.

It is not required
if they are that good, you wouldn't posses that thought in the first place
I said in another thread that worms scare me, but not half as much as mankind..........

My humble opinion and I don't give it often, is that if life is going to exist outside planet earth, then we will take it there, by accident or on purpose.

For I have seen no hard evidence to suggest otherwise, and for the record to be totally honesty nor should I want to.
It doesn't fit my paradigm, the world is wonderful enough already and there could bee all sorts of shenanigans going on before our very eyes, but we wouldn't know it, as the facts stand, let alone what we imagine..................

 

[Han]

It all starts with the top of the pyramid... the first civilization to sneak by E=MC2 in the galaxy (first billion years of this galaxy). It's really an evolutive thing. You'll want to set local area standards, eliminate local competition and expand/cascade to the rest of the galaxy.

You don't know what you'll encounter and initially won't know how you'll deal with creatures/constructs that you definitely don't want to see propagate and become a menace (Friedman quarantine).

This model is basically human history extrapolated and working at a galactic scale. Given a billion years... you've become the all-seeing and controlling eye lol

Annuit Coeptis: Favor Undertakings in the name of Jupiter, sky King of the Gods ?
New Order of the Ages...
Trickling down... pyramid-scheme style lol

 

[Randall]

I stop at galactic managers which is already pretty wild. Distances between galaxies are stupendous... although the Canis Major dwarf galaxy could be considered part of ours. Civilizations have different objectives/needs at different scales

At present, the closet known galaxy to the Milky Way is the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy – aka. the Canis Major Overdensity. This stellar formation is about 42,000 light years from the galactic center, and a mere 25,000 light years from our Solar System. This puts it closer to us than the center of our own galaxy, which is 30,000 light years away from the Solar System.

For a galactic scale manager, I'd put survival and safety/security as one of the first priorities... thus justifying this crazy thread. I figure the Maslow hierarchy of needs in a galactic environment needs a refresh

That's a very anthropocentric way to look at the situation, but I certainly like the way you're not afraid to try mapping more concepts onto the subject. It's creative and thought provoking!

 

[Randall]

Interesting: Justified & Ancient - Wikipedia

 

[marduk]

It is not required
if they are that good, you wouldn't posses that thought in the first place
I said in another thread that worms scare me, but not half as much as mankind..........

My humble opinion and I don't give it often, is that if life is going to exist outside planet earth, then we will take it there, by accident or on purpose.

For I have seen no hard evidence to suggest otherwise, and for the record to be totally honesty nor should I want to.
It doesn't fit my paradigm, the world is wonderful enough already and there could bee all sorts of shenanigans going on before our very eyes, but we wouldn't know it, as the facts stand, let alone what we imagine..................

That's exactly my point.

There are easier ways to achieve safety, and if it were true, we wouldn't likely be here to wonder about it.

Therefore, it's not likely to be true.

 

[marduk]

My god, that's terrible.

Wasn't it this dude that invented the idea of Mu, along with Leng and all that Lovecraftian stuff?

He looks like he would tell a good story.