Alien Perspective Neo-style

[Ezechiel]

Once a civilization has mastered space travel or decoded enough of the fabric of this universe to sidestep Einsteinian limitations of his standard model (E=MC2).... (where matter grows to infinity as it approaches the speed of light). ... What next ?

First you're able to access all the other Petri dishes like planet earth up close and personal... second you'd possibly be able to detect other engineers like you and possibly some cosmic caretakers. Third you'd need to find a spot in that hierarchy of engineers and follow some mandatory rules after getting punished for initial bad behavior (If there is a cosmic game, we're pretty late in it).

A bit like Neo waking up. It would definitely be a mind blowing shocker. All the weird stuff raised by Stanton Friedman about being quarantined and monitored would suddenly add up. We'd get real answers and justifications about interventions such as the Malmstrom incident (Robert Salas) .

Saucer Friedman-style weirdness makes sense if you've decided that someone in this universe has had the opportunity to decode it and is actually able manipulate space/time/matter to its fullest potential. Actually some theorists are talking about exit and reentry into our universe using 'The Bulk' thus by-passing the rules that govern this universe within the multiverses.

The Brane Multiverse
Now, when we are aware of the Brane World scenario let us turn to the question of Multiverse. As we can see, according to this scenario we live inside a 10-dimensional object while the actual number of spatial dimensions could be any higher – such a higher-dimensional space is referred to as “bulk” or “hyperspace”. There could be other branes of various dimensionality in that hyperspace and they can be located any close to our own world – even millimeters apart, just in other dimensions. And their total amount might be any large, up to infinity – it is a Brane Multiverse.

 

[Ezechiel]

In that neo-style framework, what would be a logical reflex for the first civilizations that acquired interstellar travel technologies ?

IMHO, within the first billion years of our universe, the first extreme high tech civilization in this galaxy would likely focus on the propagation of the genetic solution that enabled them.
'We shall mold these worlds in our image' (a spin on the Book of Genesis: 'humanity is made in the image of God' (imago dei) where God could really be the winner of the first space race in this galaxy)

The elimination of competing/incompatible sentient genetic solutions that evolved in nearby solar systems would logically fit in that scheme. Securing long term survivability through compatibility would be job one. Being the first sentient entity capable of interstellar travel in a galaxy logically should set the tone for the entire galactic village.. unless the probability of more than one civilization acquiring interstellar travel tech, in the same early time frame, in the same galaxy was high. In that last scenario, you'd end up with a galactic-scale war.

If you think about it, tons of weird Malmstrom-type events start making sense in this neo-style perspective. Not to mention that humans can freely roam on this planet with very little interference from ET managers. Does that mean we are compatible with our galactic neighbourhood ?

And now what about intergalactic travel (travel between galaxies) and how about multiverse travel?. Is there a hierarchy of managers at different cosmic scales? Where does infinite complexity lead ?

Interesting stuff

 

[Randall]

Interesting posts. Nice to see your writing style evolving too.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

This is what Mr Musk is getting at the hidden expansion of A.I.

 

[Ezechiel]

This is what Mr Musk is getting at the hidden expansion of A.I.

That's something to wonder about.. is organic intelligence (organic neural networks) a prerequisite and a support to AI or, once artificial AI is autonomous, will it decide to cut the organic umbilical cord ?
Are we creating AI in our image or will AI create an image of us ?

Meanwhile, this weird alien manager supposedly came to visit back in 1955 (Holloman AFB) . Looks more like a machine if you ask me

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Nice critical thinking and now they announce : "Boron found on Mars " other words Clay formations everywhere with ice sheets under the top soil.

 

[Ezechiel]

Nice critical thinking and now they announce : "Boron found on Mars " other words Clay formations everywhere with ice sheets under the top soil.

Wonder if we'll find civilization markers on Mars similar to the Egyptian pyramids. Which gets me thinking about those on earth. Maybe this was the ultimate purpose of their construction: to provide a quick reference to space visitors as to the level of advancement of a planet-based civilization (visible from space)... and potential alien intervention. Notice that we can't reproduce that construction with current technology and that there are no hieroglyphs inside? The pyramids must also have scared the bejesus out of competing local earthly tribes in that region: 'If you can't build this... stay away or else'

Observed from space, alien visitors would also immediately notice the cardinal orientation of the constructions, giving extra hints as to situational awareness. Not to mention the hints provided by the spectacular mathematics and precision involved in this long lasting construct.

Ultimately, these pyramids look more or less like warning signs or territorial claim markers... From a neo-style perspective, I'd propose that they were planted there by ET managers/engineers a very long time ago in case some competing space-based civilization came to visit ... of course they need to come back and renovate the construction soon (the limestone needs a refresh lol).

Another possibility, within a neo-style perspective of course, would be that the pyramid of Giza could just be a simple reminder that the terraforming/compatibility check job is complete on this planet: 'been here done that' type of thing lol. A simple stamp of approval made to last thousands of years... until this sector of the galaxy had been dealt with..

 

[marduk]

That's something to wonder about.. is organic intelligence (organic neural networks) a prerequisite and a support to AI or, once artificial AI is autonomous, will it decide to cut the organic umbilical cord ?
Are we creating AI in our image or will AI create an image of us ?

Meanwhile, this weird alien manager supposedly came to visit back in 1955 (Holloman AFB) . Looks more like a machine if you ask me

Looks like an HR Giger work if you ask me. Biomechanical.

Giger's work is essentially an industrial designer's take on merging sex, death, machines, and the occult if you ask me. Wonder what was going through this guy's head when he drew this.

 

[marduk]

Wonder if we'll find civilization markers on Mars similar to the Egyptian pyramids. Which gets me thinking about those on earth. Maybe this was the ultimate purpose of their construction: to provide a quick reference to space visitors as to the level of advancement of a planet-based civilization (visible from space)... and potential alien intervention. Notice that we can't reproduce that construction with current technology and that there are no hieroglyphs inside? The pyramids must also have scared the bejesus out of competing local earthly tribes in that region: 'If you can't build this... stay away or else'

Mars' erosion rate is low enough that if there were large structures on the surface, they would probably still be there.

It was warm and wet for a time - and that time was very short, and very long ago.

And it seems very unlikely that on Earth a farming civilization would have spent millions of man hours constructing an edifice for random space travellers to gawk at - especially since erosion rates on Earth are high enough that they probably won't be more than bumps within a few hundred thousand years.

Observed from space, alien visitors would also immediately notice the cardinal orientation of the constructions, giving extra hints as to situational awareness. Not to mention the hints provided by the spectacular mathematics and precision involved in this long lasting construct.

Long lasting on Earth is nothing on Mars or especially the Moon.

Stick something on the Moon and it will be there probably until the Sun goes all red giant on us. If you want to build a long lasting marker, that's where you'd put it.

Ultimately, these pyramids look more or less like warning signs or territorial claim markers... From a neo-style perspective, I'd propose that they were planted there by ET managers/engineers a very long time ago in case some competing space-based civilization came to visit ... of course they need to come back and renovate the construction soon (the limestone needs a refresh lol).

They were built by humans for humans for human reasons. There's zero reason to think that ET was involved in it at all.

Another possibility, within a neo-style perspective of course, would be that the pyramid of Giza could just be a simple reminder that the terraforming/compatibility check job is complete on this planet: 'been here done that' type of thing lol. A simple stamp of approval made to last thousands of years... until this sector of the galaxy had been dealt with..

They are well architected piles of rock that show neither terraforming or anything but the brilliance of guys like Imhotep.

You can actually see their progression in design and thinking from the stepped pyramid all the way to Giza.

 

[Ezechiel]

Mars' erosion rate is low enough that if there were large structures on the surface, they would probably still be there.

It was warm and wet for a time - and that time was very short, and very long ago.

And it seems very unlikely that on Earth a farming civilization would have spent millions of man hours constructing an edifice for random space travellers to gawk at - especially since erosion rates on Earth are high enough that they probably won't be more than bumps within a few hundred thousand years.

Long lasting on Earth is nothing on Mars or especially the Moon.

Stick something on the Moon and it will be there probably until the Sun goes all red giant on us. If you want to build a long lasting marker, that's where you'd put it.

They were built by humans for humans for human reasons. There's zero reason to think that ET was involved in it at all.

They are well architected piles of rock that show neither terraforming or anything but the brilliance of guys like Imhotep.

You can actually see their progression in design and thinking from the stepped pyramid all the way to Giza.

Just having fun with this lol.

Needed time frame on earth 10,000 years ? Time enough for genetically modified earth creatures to evolve and build their own defenses and move on. Best bet, in a neo-style environment, is that Giza construction is only there as a temporary scarecrow for planet earth while it's inhabitants remain earthbound ... (while also exposing the possibility that the earth is part of a cosmic jurisdiction).

A solar system marker would definitely be further from earth and be protected from the passage to a red giant.

As for progression in design... these might be markers indicating genetic modification project advancement lol.

 

[marduk]

Just having fun with this lol.

Needed time frame on earth 10,000 years ? Time enough for genetically modified earth creatures to evolve and build their own defenses and move on. Best bet, in a neo-style environment, is that Giza construction is only there as a temporary scarecrow for planet earth while it's inhabitants remain earthbound ... (while also exposing the possibility that the earth is part of a cosmic jurisdiction).

A solar system marker would definitely be further from earth and be protected from the passage to a red giant.

As for progression in design... these might be markers indicating genetic modification project advancement lol.

Ok, I'll bite.

Why use DNA at all?

Any advanced AI could use something a lot more robust for data storage and replication.

 

[Ezechiel]

Ok, I'll bite.

Why use DNA at all?

Any advanced AI could use something a lot more robust for data storage and replication.

My neo-style proposal concerns the first biological constructs with interstellar travel capability in this galaxy and the rush to propagate the organic solution that enabled them.
I'm assuming this first galactic (carbon-based) civilization is the first to find shortcuts around Einsteinian limitations of his model.

In that neo-style context, AI would be a servant tool and not the BORG master of this galaxy lol. There might be a merge of AI and organics (which is predicted for earthlings) but the idea would be for that race to control the very variable organic environments which might not be totally compatible with their construct.... Thus a mad race to fine tune the galaxy to their liking before competing constructs start being a problem

The fact that our organic presence on this planet is tolerated might be a reflection of what is out there. (Would explain our tolerated presence in a 14 billion year old universe)

 

[marduk]

My neo-style proposal concerns the first biological constructs with interstellar travel capability in this galaxy and the rush to propagate the organic solution that enabled them.
I'm assuming this first galactic (carbon-based) civilization is the first to find shortcuts around Einsteinian limitations of his model.

In that neo-style context, AI would be a servant tool and not the BORG master of this galaxy lol. There might be a merge of AI and organics (which is predicted for earthlings) but the idea would be for that race to control the very variable organic environments which might not be totally compatible with their construct.... Thus a mad race to fine tune the galaxy to their liking before competing constructs start being a problem

The fact that our organic presence on this planet is tolerated might be a reflection of what is out there. (Would explain our tolerated presence in a 14 billion year old universe)

The inherent flaw in this premise is the inherent strength of DNA or RNA replication.

It's very simple. Make more copies of itself, or make more copies of proteins that do stuff.

DNA is not Turing complete though by itself, and is not capable of a lot of storage.

Your DNA is about 300mb to make a human. Think about storage requirements to make a human loaded with knowledge.

It would be so long that it would be very fragile and not very portable. DNA might work for spreading genetic simple life, but not a civilization.

 

[Ezechiel]

The inherent flaw in this premise is the inherent strength of DNA or RNA replication.

It's very simple. Make more copies of itself, or make more copies of proteins that do stuff.

DNA is not Turing complete though by itself, and is not capable of a lot of storage.

Your DNA is about 300mb to make a human. Think about storage requirements to make a human loaded with knowledge.

It would be so long that it would be very fragile and not very portable. DNA might work for spreading genetic simple life, but not a civilization.

It's more about controlling the evolutionary path of sentient life forms through DNA manipulation. Possibly creating superior subspecies in a petri dish. (akin to favoring the sapiens over neanderthals ).

We're talking of extreme technological advancements allowing them to access this entire galaxy with relatively little effort. A life-bearing planet is one among many and is viewed, from their perspective, as a simple petri dish.

Viewed from their perspective, we are a compatible sentient virus. Their job is to keep the dish compatible with their design

 

[marduk]

It's more about controlling the evolutionary path of sentient life forms through DNA manipulation. Possibly creating superior subspecies in a petri dish. (akin to favoring the sapiens over neanderthals ).

We're talking of extreme technological advancements allowing them to access this entire galaxy with relatively little effort. A life-bearing planet is one among many and is viewed, from their perspective, as a simple petri dish.

Viewed from their perspective, we are a compatible sentient virus. Their job is to keep the dish compatible with their design

That's what I'm getting at.

What vector would this guided evolution be? Because natural DNA doesn't store enough to do the job.

You'd need to land a device capable of analyzing the current state, assessing corrective action, and replication of a synthetic virus or something to correct it.

And then spread it around of course.

 

[Ezechiel]

That's what I'm getting at.
What vector would this guided evolution be? Because natural DNA doesn't store enough to do the job.
You'd need to land a device capable of analyzing the current state, assessing corrective action, and replication of a synthetic virus or something to correct it.

And then spread it around of course.

Constant monitoring and experimentation for sure. We're heading down the rabbit hole. LMAO.

A bit like information technologies... Implementing uniformity on a galactic scale should facilitate communications and perhaps common value systems.
A neo-style hypothesis would dictate that we are being molded in their image for a future integration into a cosmic network.

This whole crazy idea would also suggest that the sheer number of life-bearing planets in this galaxy makes it easier to transform them than to invade them or reset the evolutionary path ?

 

[marduk]

Constant monitoring and experimentation for sure. We're heading down the rabbit hole. LMAO.

A bit like information technologies... Implementing uniformity on a galactic scale should facilitate communications and perhaps common value systems.
A neo-style hypothesis would dictate that we are being molded in their image for a future integration into a cosmic network.

This whole crazy idea would also suggest that the sheer number of life-bearing planets in this galaxy makes it easier to transform them than to invade them or reset the evolutionary path ?

But that's not what we see with the abduction accounts.

You would need some kind of substance to be introduced into the bloodstream before the individual reproduced. The changes made would need to be heritable. And not severe enough to kill the host.

If I were doing it, I'd use mosquitos personally.

And the changes made would change phenotypes but not necessarily change behaviour at all. Higher IQ people still do stupid things.

The impact at a civilization level would just be random.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Like those so called abductions are they seeing holograms rather than living beings. A.I interactions / high advances in drone technologies.

 

[Ezechiel]

But that's not what we see with the abduction accounts.
You would need some kind of substance to be introduced into the bloodstream before the individual reproduced. The changes made would need to be heritable. And not severe enough to kill the host.
If I were doing it, I'd use mosquitos personally.
And the changes made would change phenotypes but not necessarily change behaviour at all. Higher IQ people still do stupid things.
The impact at a civilization level would just be random.

Impact would be random but would remain in a compatibility range Some civilizations would progress rapidly while others would vanish but all outcomes would never pose a threat to the civilization managing a galaxy (Prime security goal).

Your goal with abductions, within a neo-style framework, would be to create hybrids used in other solar systems (petri dish transfers). For local modifications you could use mosquitoes as a vector, but I'd think they would be using something a bit more sophisticated... possibly some hard to detect nanoscale propagation method (especially on relatively high tech civilizations).

... at worst... trigger Hurricanes that result in giant clouds of mosquitoes
Harvey's Next Danger: Massive Mosquito Clouds | Smart News | Smithsonian
After the catastrophic devastation of hurricane Harvey, the people of Texas are now facing a slew of problems from contaminated floodwaters to toxic mold to giant alligators sneaking into homes to floating rafts of fire ants. But as Joe Hanson at Texas Monthly reports, Harvey victims have yet another galling problem to add the mix: giant clouds of mosquitoes.

 

[marduk]

Impact would be random but would remain in a compatibility range Some civilizations would progress rapidly while others would vanish but all outcomes would never pose a threat to the civilization managing a galaxy (Prime security goal).

Your goal with abductions, within a neo-style framework, would be to create hybrids used in other solar systems (petri dish transfers). For local modifications you could use mosquitoes as a vector, but I'd think they would be using something a bit more sophisticated... possibly some hard to detect nanoscale propagation method (especially on relatively high tech civilizations).

... at worst... trigger Hurricanes that result in giant clouds of mosquitoes
Harvey's Next Danger: Massive Mosquito Clouds | Smart News | Smithsonian
After the catastrophic devastation of hurricane Harvey, the people of Texas are now facing a slew of problems from contaminated floodwaters to toxic mold to giant alligators sneaking into homes to floating rafts of fire ants. But as Joe Hanson at Texas Monthly reports, Harvey victims have yet another galling problem to add the mix: giant clouds of mosquitoes.

I think we're saying the same thing, but coming to two different conclusions.

What I'm saying is if I were trying to do what you're thinking is possible, I wouldn't use DNA at all. If I wanted to spawn a galaxy wide civilization using local raw materials to do it, I'd do it with machines that would just out-compete or ignore any local biology.

If for some reason I did choose to use DNA, you'd have to use a whole hell of a lot of it, because it currently doesn't store much data to fulfil it's biological function: reproduction and protein synthesis. 300mb to make a human with some base instincts but an empty neocortex. Even if you wanted to 'program' that human, you'd need to do it with a bunch more data. Theoretical compression limits are just math, so even if you doubled the amount of DNA to 600mb, that would still only encode a maximum of about 3GB of data (if the data you're encoding isn't random).

That's not a lot of room to encode a civilization and it's not what we see in our DNA and it's not what we see with abduction accounts.