Alien Perspective Neo-style

[Ezechiel]

I think we're saying the same thing, but coming to two different conclusions.

What I'm saying is if I were trying to do what you're thinking is possible, I wouldn't use DNA at all. If I wanted to spawn a galaxy wide civilization using local raw materials to do it, I'd do it with machines that would just out-compete or ignore any local biology.

If for some reason I did choose to use DNA, you'd have to use a whole hell of a lot of it, because it currently doesn't store much data to fulfil it's biological function: reproduction and protein synthesis. 300mb to make a human with some base instincts but an empty neocortex. Even if you wanted to 'program' that human, you'd need to do it with a bunch more data. Theoretical compression limits are just math, so even if you doubled the amount of DNA to 600mb, that would still only encode a maximum of about 3GB of data (if the data you're encoding isn't random).

That's not a lot of room to encode a civilization and it's not what we see in our DNA and it's not what we see with abduction accounts.

Remember LEELOO... she had 400,000 memo groups
Leeloo

In a neo-style framework, the preferred platform is carbon-based sentient beings working in sync with evolving AI. With the help of AI, the DNA structure has been enhanced and optimized to accommodate complete integration and interfacing with quantum computing ressources ... Immortality would obviously have been achieved, but the central weakness is ever evolving competing DNA constructs which would be a continuous challenge.

Infinite complexity requires infinite adaptability.Carbon-based sentient beings provide the survival instincts... philosophical base for existence maybe, that AI constructs feed on in that cooperative evolutive scheme.

 

[marduk]

I have no idea what any of that means.

 

[Ezechiel]

I have no idea what any of that means.

In short, my neo-style model doesn't support pure AI as managing a galaxy and our presence here as carbon based beings doesn't support it either. So it's got to be some kind collaboration or merge.

 

[marduk]

In short, my neo-style model doesn't support pure AI as managing a galaxy and our presence here as carbon based beings doesn't support it either. So it's got to be some kind collaboration or merge.

Give the book Homo Deus a go. One of the things the author posits is that we will upgrade ourselves through technology until we essentially become it.

 

[Ezechiel]

Give the book Homo Deus a go. One of the things the author posits is that we will upgrade ourselves through technology until we essentially become it.

Makes a lot of sense... the carbon-based part remains and the result is radically expanded consciousness and eternal life for organic life forms.
Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow - Wikipedia

Homo Deus working on a cosmic scale would definitely work in a neo-style framework and potentially could justify what Stanton Friedman has been ranting about all these years

That's what ufology should eventually be about.... validating frameworks

 

[Randall]

Interesting discussion. One way of looking at it is in the way our cultural expectations are being mapped onto the phenomenon. Essentially it's saying, if we look at it from this neo-style pop-culture perspective, this is what we might be doing if we were them. Attempting to put ourselves in the position of someone else works well for others who are fundamentally like us, but we don't really know what it's like to be an alien, so the scope in which we can make relatively objective assumptions about them is quite small.

The one thing that I keep coming back to is the theory that their actions imply study. As @marduk has recently pointed out, we humans may be at times incidental to their studies, but when we are the focus, it seems that it's our behavior that they're most interested in, and that means they're more interested in how we think rather than what we know. This makes sense to me because once you've figured out the objective physics of things, the universe becomes very predictable; that is except for the behavior of sentient creatures, their predictability has to take into account their psychology, which adds another layer of depth to their study that is unique to each species.

 

[marduk]

Interesting discussion. One way of looking at it is in the way our cultural expectations are being mapped onto the phenomenon. Essentially it's saying, if we look at it from this neo-style pop-culture perspective, this is what we might be doing if we were them. Attempting to put ourselves in the position of someone else works well for others who are fundamentally like us, but we don't really know what it's like to be an alien, so the scope in which we can make relatively objective assumptions about them is quite small.

The one thing that I keep coming back to is the theory that their actions imply study. As @marduk has recently pointed out, we humans may be at times incidental to their studies, but when we are the focus, it seems that it's our behavior that they're most interested in, and that means they're more interested in how we think rather than what we know. This makes sense to me because once you've figured out the objective physics of things, the universe becomes very predictable; that is except for the behavior of sentient creatures, their predictability has to take into account their psychology, which adds another layer of depth to their study that is unique to each species.

That was a great conversation.

There are two basic possibilities: either they are here because we are here, or they are not here because we are here.

If they are here because we are here, then they are getting something from us. That's basic stimulus/response behaviour.

Again, two choices. That could be knowledge. Or that could be exploitation.

If it's knowledge, then they either want to gather it secretly, or they don't care about being secret.

If they're doing it secretly, they're doing a crap job of it. People see them every day.

If they don't care about being secret with their presence, then they either want to communicate something, or they don't.

If they want to communicate something, then they are doing a crap job of it. If they don't, then they don't care about communicating with us.

So that's the only logical end of that branch that I can come up with. If they're studying is, they don't care about disrupting the experiment, which is bad social science protocol. And they don't care about being secret, and they don't care about communicating with us.

Unless of course they just suck at what they are doing. Which is entirely possible.

I also wonder if there's no holistic unified agenda or program. What if it's just a group of individuals as complicated - or more - than we are? Just doing stuff?

For some of them it might be study. For some of them it might be entertainment. For some it might be alleviating boredom.

Some of them might be good at what they do, and some might suck.

 

[marduk]

A further thought: if they were trying to "uplift" us, or get us to think about the environment, or be nice to each other for a change, then they're doing a crap job of that, too.

 

[Ezechiel]

A further thought: if they were trying to "uplift" us, or get us to think about the environment, or be nice to each other for a change, then they're doing a crap job of that, too.

From a neo-style perspective, the earth would be a useful petri dish from which you:

• pick from (creating hybrids and stuff to test on other petri dishes)
• backup to (part of genetic storage media lol... just in case)
• experiment on (try out new viruses...)

When we put their inventions or backups in peril they make sure they show us who's in control. Managing galactic compatibility is one heck of a job lol.

Ultimately, you'd figure this monitoring and compatibility check job wouldn't be the only aspect of ET existence, a good bet is that expanding their universal consciousness would be job two. I'll propose that this boring security function would likely be 90% automated (AI).

Higher stuff like testing string theory using colliders with the radius of Pluto's orbit for example (built by robots of course ) . Understanding the structure and dynamics of multi-verses and multi-dimensions, exploiting the knowledge gained to further enhance their security and survivability would be the ultimate goal.

If this universe eventually crashes on itself (big crunch) or stretches into oblivion, they'll need to build an ark to hide in the bulk until a compatible universe re-emerges

 

[marduk]

From a neo-style perspective, the earth would be a useful petri dish from which you:

• pick from (creating hybrids and stuff to test on other petri dishes)
• backup to (part of genetic storage media lol... just in case)
• experiment on (try out new viruses...)

There are easier and more controlled ways to go about all that than what we see, which basically seems needlessly complex and with too many variables.

Why not just grab a few thousand humans and take them to a controlled environment to do that? We'd never even know.

 

[Ezechiel]

There are easier and more controlled ways to go about all that than what we see, which basically seems needlessly complex and with too many variables.

Why not just grab a few thousand humans and take them to a controlled environment to do that? We'd never even know.

Got to come from same ecosystem (petri dish)... easier lol. (PS they don't care if we find out... plus the cosmic watergate seems to be working great)

Humans have infinite insignificance until they're able to interfere with cosmic designs.

 

[Ezechiel]

Interesting discussion. One way of looking at it is in the way our cultural expectations are being mapped onto the phenomenon. Essentially it's saying, if we look at it from this neo-style pop-culture perspective, this is what we might be doing if we were them. Attempting to put ourselves in the position of someone else works well for others who are fundamentally like us, but we don't really know what it's like to be an alien, so the scope in which we can make relatively objective assumptions about them is quite small.

The one thing that I keep coming back to is the theory that their actions imply study. As @marduk has recently pointed out, we humans may be at times incidental to their studies, but when we are the focus, it seems that it's our behavior that they're most interested in, and that means they're more interested in how we think rather than what we know. This makes sense to me because once you've figured out the objective physics of things, the universe becomes very predictable; that is except for the behavior of sentient creatures, their predictability has to take into account their psychology, which adds another layer of depth to their study that is unique to each species.

Look at our relation with ants and bees ... as part of an ecosystem we know that they have roles that are eventually beneficial to us. We tried to create hybrid bees that would help with pollination and it backfired big time. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Under a neo-style framework, any dominating galactic-scale civilization would be acting like beekeepers. If your bees start creating radioactive material and build defenses with planet scale (petri dish) destruction potential, maybe you'll intervene

 

[Randall]

Look at our relation with ants and bees ... as part of an ecosystem we know that they have roles that are eventually beneficial to us. We tried to create hybrid bees that would help with pollination and it backfired big time. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Under a neo-style framework, any dominating galactic-scale civilization would be acting like beekeepers. If your bees start creating radioactive material and build defenses with planet scale (petri dish) destruction potential, maybe you'll intervene

Some years ago, after careful consideration of analogies that suggest that there's as much difference between aliens and us as there is between us and some insect ( usually ants ), I concluded that such analogies are problematic at best and probably completely inapplicable. One reason is that in these sorts of arguments the tendency is to underrate the power of the human mind in order to make the analogy seem plausible. But the fact is that human ingenuity has now brought us to the point where were looking at subatomic particles, the very building blocks of our universe, and conceptualizing possibilities that although beyond our technical capability, are not beyond our comprehension, and extend beyond the confines of our universe.

Concepts like keeping the local wildlife in check are simple and very easy for us to understand. So if that's the aliens intent then they're not much more intelligent than us, just more technically capable. Also, if they were really smart and wanted to dampen any threat from any inventions we might conjure up, then AI and not nuclear weapons should be what they're worried about. Once that Genie gets out of the bottle it will surpass both our intelligence and technical capability in very little time and then evolve exponentially until they overtake the aliens as well.

On the Jacobs video: After looking into that it seems to me that it's reasonable to doubt the claims he makes. Start here: The Big Sur 'UFO': An Identified Flying Object

But don't get me wrong. Just because there are grandstanders, exploiters, and hoaxers doesn't mean I don't believe alien visitation is a reality ( I do ).

 

[Ezechiel]

Some years ago, after careful consideration of analogies that suggest that there's as much difference between aliens and us as there is between us and some insect ( usually ants ), I concluded that such analogies are problematic at best and probably completely inapplicable. One reason is that in these sorts of arguments the tendency is to underrate the power of the human mind in order to make the analogy seem plausible. But the fact is that human ingenuity has now brought us to the point where were looking at subatomic particles, the very building blocks of our universe, and conceptualizing possibilities that although beyond our technical capability, are not beyond our comprehension, and extend beyond the confines of our universe.

Concepts like keeping the local wildlife in check are simple and very easy for us to understand. So if that's the aliens intent then they're not much more intelligent than us, just more technically capable. Also, if they were really smart and wanted to dampen any threat from any inventions we might conjure up, then AI and not nuclear weapons should be what they're worried about. Once that Genie gets out of the bottle it will surpass both our intelligence and technical capability in very little time and then evolve exponentially until they overtake the aliens as well.

On the Jacobs video: After looking into that it seems to me that it's reasonable to doubt the claims he makes. Start here: The Big Sur 'UFO': An Identified Flying Object

But don't get me wrong. Just because there are grandstanders, exploiters, and hoaxers doesn't mean I don't believe alien visitation is a reality ( I do ).

In my scheme it's more than keeping the wildlife in check. A managing race at a galactic scale would see all life bearing planets as petri dishes where experimentation can be performed and new hybrids can be tested. All the while making sure that none of them go rogue and become a threat to a galactic sector in virus-like fashion. Another role would be the instantiation and acceleration of the evolution of life forms on new planets or planetoids providing new compatible genetic variations able to adapt to various environments. In a neo-style galactic framework, the managing race would be cataloguing and monitoring all viable planets likely through automated means (AI).

Planets are perfect safe confinement zones until one of your creations is able to escape it with technological means. In our case, once our science framework solidified and replaced religious belief, we gained access to space and fusion reactions through hydrogen bombs in very little time. A bit like Neo waking up.... suddenly we must have had all their attention.

As you mentioned, AI might be a genie already out of the box and somehow now needs a perfect carbon-based exoskeleton to become complete ... thus the need to manufacture entities like us. Got to admit that the humanoid form is the winning design on earth and could be the favored mobile platform and interface for autonomous AI constructs ... LOL talk about turning the world upside down.

Ultimately, there has to be a supporting galactic-scale framework that allows/tolerates our presence on this planet. We're either an exploited resource or future members of a galactic community.

 

[marduk]

In my scheme it's more than keeping the wildlife in check. A managing race at a galactic scale would see all life bearing planets as petri dishes where experimentation can be performed and new hybrids can be tested. All the while making sure that none of them go rogue and become a threat to a galactic sector in virus-like fashion. Another role would be the instantiation and acceleration of the evolution of life forms on new planets or planetoids providing new compatible genetic variations able to adapt to various environments. In a neo-style galactic framework, the managing race would be cataloguing and monitoring all viable planets likely through automated means (AI).

Planets are perfect safe confinement zones until one of your creations is able to escape it with technological means. In our case, once our science framework solidified and replaced religious belief, we gained access to space and fusion reactions through hydrogen bombs in very little time. A bit like Neo waking up.... suddenly we must have had all their attention.

As you mentioned, AI might be a genie already out of the box and somehow now needs a perfect carbon-based exoskeleton to become complete ... thus the need to manufacture entities like us. Got to admit that the humanoid form is the winning design on earth and could be the favored mobile platform and interface for autonomous AI constructs ... LOL talk about turning the world upside down.

Ultimately, there has to be a supporting galactic-scale framework that allows/tolerates our presence on this planet. We're either an exploited resource or future members of a galactic community.

In 100-300 years, we will likely be able to model the entire planet's ecosystem down to a molecular level. Including our own behaviour.

If all they are doing is playing a 'what if' game of mix & match, they're going about it in a really inefficient way.

 

[Randall]

In my scheme it's more than keeping the wildlife in check. A managing race at a galactic scale would see all life bearing planets as petri dishes ...

It's not outside the realm of possibility to think that there could be a "managing race" out there. As you allude to, we do plenty of that here. My past musings on that possibly suggest to me that because of the huge numbers and vast distances, there would be a certain point beyond where it would be practical for any race within a given universe to manage things effectively. On a galactic scale it would be an exceedingly energy consuming task of monumental proportions. However closer-in to the center of galaxies where stars are much closer together, it would be much easier from a logistical perspective. So I felt that the likelihood of us out here on the rim being one of the transplants was less.

Also, we recognize that there's just a lot of nature out there that is beyond our management capability, and it seems equally likely that a lot of life in the universe ( assuming it's out there ) has simply evolved naturally on its own. That being said, the presence of aliens on Earth does suggest ( to me ) that they're studying the planet ( and us ), but that it's more passive than active in terms of management. By that, I mean that it seems that even if they are responsible for some seeding, natural evolution as opposed to regimented management seems to be the dominant force. This could still be easily as interesting to study though. Even more so depending on whether or not the aliens have such subjective experiences.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

It's not outside the realm of possibility to think that there could be a "managing race" out there. As you allude to, we do plenty of that here. My past musings on that possibly suggest to me that because of the huge numbers and vast distances, there would be a certain point beyond where it would be practical for any race within a given universe to manage things effectively. On a galactic scale it would be an exceedingly energy consuming task of monumental proportions. However closer-in to the center of galaxies where stars are much closer together, it would be much easier from a logistical perspective. So I felt that the likelihood of us out here on the rim being one of the transplants was less.

Also, we recognize that there's just a lot of nature out there that is beyond our management capability, and it seems equally likely that a lot of life in the universe ( assuming it's out there ) has simply evolved naturally on its own. That being said, the presence of aliens on Earth does suggest ( to me ) that they're studying the planet ( and us ), but that it's more passive than active in terms of management. By that, I mean that it seems that even if they are responsible for some seeding, natural evolution as opposed to regimented management seems to be the dominant force. This could still be easily as interesting to study though. Even more so depending on whether or not the aliens have such subjective experiences.

Science can only give answers upon evidence which can be replicated and theories which can evolve with new discoveries. However, science cannot answer everything in the universe today. Classic debate on Alien life forms

Agree UFOs are real which going by evidence of eyewitness accounts of professional pilots, defence personnel and private contractors and police officers. Also radar evidence and close contact encounters with fighter pilots during and after WW2. What they are is another question???? Some are pushing the human aspects of hidden history technology. While other suggest the ETH all could be right or wrong. It could be just natural occurrences of nature which host some A.I ability which Science have not found the complete answer for yet. Mind you if they did get repeating signals would they relay them to outside the National Security System Bunker or even give mainstream science the look in?

This Indian Scientist is Working in a $100m Project, Searching for Aliens! and how would you know what type of "spaceship /craft "would leave a signal trace unless you already got some type of detection data from previous investigations .

 

[marduk]

The problem with the debate about life elsewhere is that right now, we are the black swan.

We need to get off this rock and go look for other ones.

 

[Ezechiel]

It's not outside the realm of possibility to think that there could be a "managing race" out there. As you allude to, we do plenty of that here. My past musings on that possibly suggest to me that because of the huge numbers and vast distances, there would be a certain point beyond where it would be practical for any race within a given universe to manage things effectively. On a galactic scale it would be an exceedingly energy consuming task of monumental proportions. However closer-in to the center of galaxies where stars are much closer together, it would be much easier from a logistical perspective. So I felt that the likelihood of us out here on the rim being one of the transplants was less.

Also, we recognize that there's just a lot of nature out there that is beyond our management capability, and it seems equally likely that a lot of life in the universe ( assuming it's out there ) has simply evolved naturally on its own. That being said, the presence of aliens on Earth does suggest ( to me ) that they're studying the planet ( and us ), but that it's more passive than active in terms of management. By that, I mean that it seems that even if they are responsible for some seeding, natural evolution as opposed to regimented management seems to be the dominant force. This could still be easily as interesting to study though. Even more so depending on whether or not the aliens have such subjective experiences.

I remember a time when 1 megabyte of RAM was mind blowing. The next 100 years will be mind blowing... now imagine several thousand years. A galactic scale will seem microscopic to a neo-style managing civilization set up with fully automated alarm systems all over the place (the all seeing eye).

Eye see you . At the top of the technological pyramid is an all seeing eye lol.

 

[Ezechiel]

The problem with the debate about life elsewhere is that right now, we are the black swan.

We need to get off this rock and go look for other ones.

What I'm worried about is earth's ecosystem collapse before when can develop viable artificial gravity and radiation protection solutions.
How Radiation in Space Poses a Threat to Human Exploration (Infographic)