Would Contact with Extraterrestrials Benefit or Harm Humanity?

[wwkirk]

Here's a link to a review of a book that will make true believers mad and skeptics will grab on as another brick that breaks the e.t. horse's back. I'm of the opinion that human kind is unique. But, I'm still open minded enough to keep watching the skies.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204552304577116570107579152.html

It seems to me that materialist assumptions favors life elsewhere. If life is just a special combination of chemicals, given the size of the universe, life should be expected to emerge more than once.--This is not to argue that any life-forms are visiting us. That's another matter.

 

[mike]

Sounds real dumb. For one thing, mosasaurs were marine, and I never heard any scientist suggest they might've been a steppingstone to higher intelligence.

Harrison is a sci fi writer, the eden trilogy are just that, but its well worth the read

 

[Trajanus]

Here's a link to a review of a book that will make true believers mad and skeptics will grab on as another brick that breaks the e.t. horse's back.

Reminds me of Rare Earth--inspired by creationists. Even without a collision, a planet can easily acquire moons, and a big one can be a serious liability. Look how much ours has slowed down terrestrial rotation over geologic time; had our day initially ben 24 hours long, we'd be in trouble now. And obliquity shifts needn't be such an issue. Climatic excursions occurred even without them. Back in the mesozoic, the whole planet was warm, so they may not have made much difference.

I'm of the opinion that human kind is unique. But, I'm still open minded enough to keep watching the skies.

People can argue for or against the idea of ET until they're blue in the face. What matters is the actual evidence we're being visited. Reports of strange flying craft and entities fly in the face of such books.

 

[tyder001]

actual evidence we're being visited.

Still waiting! No, I'm afraid metal in the ground and places where grass has been pressed down is not proof and really not specific evidence of anything either. Radar? Well again nothing specific. Strange craft? The Stealth Fighter was a strange craft when it was first spotted.
Look, I would love to know we were being visited by advanced life from somewhere else. I'm not a dyed in the wool materialist. Never, have been and never will be. But, so far the "evidence" is a lot of hear say and some provocative reports. I've even seen something I can't explain myself. But, I just can't take the E.T. leap. At least not right now. Also, I often see a book or a report that I think might be of interest and get a conversation going. It doesn't automatically mean that I agree with the book or believe everything the author says. I have my beliefs and they are not threatened by contrary opinions. I don't put my index finger in the wind every morning to see if the winds are blowing toward my bias or beliefs that day. Right now, today, this minute, I don't see anything to convince me that life is a random happy little accident or that space people are visiting earth or that the world will end next December. But, I keep my eyes open and my brain (for the most part) in gear. So, we will see.
Peace, Nanoo, nanoo!

 

[Ezechiel]

I was under the impression that oxygen levels at or above 35% would lead to catastrophic spontaneous combustion.

You're probably right lol... kaboom lmao

Ok lets make it 30% sustained for 50 million years.

The interesting idea here is that different target conditions would enable different species to emerge as high-tech sentient

 

[tyder001]

I had a professor in college who liked to study "Why people believed certain things." He was a Psychologist so he was always wanting to tinker under the hood. Anyway, I have noticed myself that people (me included) will scramble to defend their worldview when they feel it's being attacked. They will throw words around like "creationist," "Humanist clap trap," and call names like moron or idiot or sky god dummy or say silly things like "I didn't come from an ape." All the while holding tight to their worldview under the guise of "my scientist or my god can beat up your scientist or your god." I still don't think a "case" for off planet visitors has been made. But, I will say that I do think something is going on. I'm just not sure it can ever be measured or cataloged. I have seen one u.f.o. in recent years. I still think it was more than likely a satalite or a man made craft. But, it did hover and it did do a little up and down and zig zag that I can't account for. But, that could have been an optical illusion (mabe by head moved or something) I can understand a person who was abducted having a strong belief and trying to come to terms with it. I can understand a skeptic coming up with different reasons. (sometime you just have to experience something yourself to really give it serious thought) But, you guys that simply say "So and so talked to so and so and they said 40 people saw so and so" and then you form a world view that spaceman Spiff is visiting earth? That one is hard to understand. I remain skeptical of space folks visiting earth. But, healthy skeptisism (unlike scientism or religous fanatic dogma) is a good thing. Isn't it?

 

[Trajanus]

The interesting idea here is that different target conditions would enable different species to emerge as high-tech sentient

I don't see a correlation between oxygen levels and predominant life. Low oxygen levels may favor archosaurian life instead of mammals, inasmuch as the former are said to have originally evolved highly efficient respiration under such conditions (early Triassic). Yet mammals have predominated in the relatively low oxygen cenozoic.

 

[Ezechiel]

I don't see a correlation between oxygen levels and predominant life. Low oxygen levels may favor archosaurian life instead of mammals, inasmuch as the former are said to have originally evolved highly efficient respiration under such conditions (early Triassic). Yet mammals have predominated in the relatively low oxygen cenozoic.

It could be oxygen... Or any combination of elements, at ideal levels over a long period of time, helping a biological construct emerge as sentient.

Our brain configuration helped early humans adapt to extreme adversity and persist. Don't forget that all humans have a reptilian brain lol

 

[mike]

Indeed we do, Carl Sagans The Dragons of Eden is an excellent study on this aspect of biology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden

More recently scientists are talking about reverse engineering dinosaurs from avian species

By targeting certain genes in chicken embryos, it is possible to bring out the reptilian traits of the birds’ ancestors. Talpid chickens are mutants which have a lethal, though interesting, change to their developmental genes.

Talpid chicken embryos have a common set of malformations: the chicken’s limbs are generally the most affected. Scientists studying talpid chicken embryos have discovered another anomaly in the mutants: they grow teeth. Like reptiles, talpid chickens develop conical teeth, similar to those of baby alligators. Even in healthy chickens, two day old chicken embryos have 16 vertebrae. Adult chickens only have about 5 vertebrae, as the extra bones are absorbed as the chick embryo develops. By halting the absorption process, the chick would be left with a reptilian tail.

http://leahlefler.hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Make-a-Dinosaur-from-Chickens

Although they suggest the Australian Emu would be a better candidate than chickens

Reverse-Engineering Dinosaurs

It is entirely possible to create a dinosaur, by manipulating specific genes in a bird’s genome. Emus are an excellent first choice, according to Jack Horner, because they have a lot of features already present to create a dinosaur the size of a Velociraptor.

The human brain though is a classic example of where nature applies "patches" to the program, rather than rewrite the code from scratch, again Sagans The dragons of eden is an excellent source book if you want the lurid details

 

[Trajanus]

It could be oxygen... Or any combination of elements, at ideal levels over a long period of time, helping a biological construct emerge as sentient.

Our brain configuration helped early humans adapt to extreme adversity and persist. Don't forget that all humans have a reptilian brain lol

Modern humans seem in part the outcome of an "arms race" involving brains.

 

[Ezechiel]

Modern humans seem in part the outcome of an "arms race" involving brains.

Very much so !

That's where the development of the neo-cortex kicks in. (surrounds the reptilian brain or triune brain).

 

[mike]

The next addition is on the drawing board the "chipocampus"

Martha Farah, one of the leading neuroethicists in the world is up next to present Cyborgs, Superminds, and Silliness: What are the Real Ethical Challenges for Neural Prosthetics?, an introduction to the emerging neurotechnologies that pose enhancement possibilities. Technologies like transcranial magnetic stimulation and neural prosthetics can be used to suppress negative habits, and enhance mood and specific cognitive abilities. Brain-computer interfaces are allowing people to control computers and prosthetics with their thoughts, and brain prosthetics are being developed to replace the hippocampus with a “chipocampus.” No one is doing any brain prosthesis work on humans yet, but it is working in rats.

http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/4358

 

[Ezechiel]

The next addition is on the drawing board the "chipocampus"

http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/4358

Neural implants, the next quantum leap in human consciousness.

With a huge caveat. Remove the chip and you've got an atrophied neo-cortex due to its dependence to the chip. Not to mention the vulnerability to electromagnetic pulses.

Extreme high technology is a huge house of cards if you lose control of the foundations or the supporting infrastructures. Stone age anyone ?

 

[Trajanus]

Very much so !

That's where the development of the neo-cortex kicks in. (surrounds the reptilian brain or triune brain).

And it occurred rather recently, in not-so-high oxygen conditions.

 

[Ezechiel]

And it occurred rather recently, in not-so-high oxygen conditions.

Yup ! Parameters were ideal for our specie but maybe not the Neanderthal.

Let me rephrase this idea. Had the oxygen levels stabilized at a higher level, level at which the velociraptor operated, it may have had the opportunity to evolve into a much more complex creature.

 

[wwkirk]

Other

Yup ! Parameters were ideal for our specie but maybe not the Neanderthal.

Let me rephrase this idea. Had the oxygen levels stabilized at a higher level, level at which the velociraptor operated, it may have had the opportunity to evolve into a much more complex creature.

Different conditions on earth may have benefited the dinosaurs. But in principle, life could evolve very differently on other worlds. The could even be silicon-based life, unlike the carbon based life on this planet. Chlorine is also considered as an alternative to oxygen. Hypothetical types of biochemistry

 

[Trajanus]

Yup ! Parameters were ideal for our specie but maybe not the Neanderthal.

In fact Neanderthal man did pretty well until about 35,000 or so years ago. As far as I know, our species had only one edge--brains.

Let me rephrase this idea. Had the oxygen levels stabilized at a higher level, level at which the velociraptor operated, it may have had the opportunity to evolve into a much more complex creature.

It might conceivably have had such an opportunity regardless of oxygen level, had only Chicxulub not occurred.

 

[Trajanus]

Different conditions on earth may have benefited the dinosaurs.

The survival of aves--a branch of theropod--suggests Chicxulub was the only serious impediment to their continued success. Throughout the Mesozoic, dinosaurs did fine in quite a variety of environments.

But in principle, life could evolve very differently on other worlds. The could even be silicon-based life, unlike the carbon based life on this planet.

Possibly on worlds devoid of carbon, if any have silicon and little/no carbon. From what I've heard, silicon life, while theoretically possible, wouldn't have been able to compete with carbon based life.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

@trainedobserver, good question about whether there have been cultures who have wholly benefited from a more advanced culture absorbing them?
I suppose Native Americans are a good example in as much as to my knowledge at least, alcohol and firearms did not exist until Europeans arrived. The introduction of such accurate killing devices and the possibility of alcoholism and people acting differently because of alcohol, I think are pretty negative outcomes. However, this must be balanced against things like increased awareness of health issues, general knowledge of the wider world (I for one, would like to know about extraterrestrial life just for the sake of it, if nothing else). I imagine many native americans were happy to learn more about the world and universe that they may otherwise have not discovered for some time.
For our world culture as it exists today, outright contact with ET or at least definitive proof of having being visited is bound to have serious ramifications that are profound and long-lasting. There will be some positive aspects to this - possible new energy sources, understanding of the universe of the very large and very small are some I can think of right now -and there will undoubtedly be some negative consequences.
Personally, If we do learn for sure about ET life I think like with many things in life and evolution, it will be a question of adapt or die out. If we are anything as humans, we are able to adapt to new knowledge. Granted, sometimes only at the point of a gun or over a long period of time but the point is we get there. I strongly believe that barring any very sinister covert long-term action being carried out by ET right now, ET, or whatever seems to be the origin of UFO's and historical stories of Gods visiting us through the ages, would have acted already if complete annhilition were their goal.
In the main, it seems to me that our seeing UFO's is mostly coincidental, in that UFO's are going about their business anyway, regardless of whether any human is observing them or not and mostly they either do not care, do not even consider us worthy of interest or are deliberately giving us only glimpses in an effort to acclimatise us over time.
Religions and beliefs have fallen by the wayside regularly over the millenia and we are still here. Ok, maybe some Greeks and Romans were not happy to have their Gods fall from the lofty positions they were placed on BY HUMANS, but the sons and daughters of those people carried on living and breeding and their genes have continued to be passed on to the present day.
No doubt there have been some cultures wiped out by evil genocidal leaders of yesteryear but I think in the main, those that chose to accept the new way of life were allowed to do so and continue surviving genetically, if not culturally. We may have to do the same. And, to be brutal, anyone who just cannot accept a new paradigm such as the existence of ET and see that as cause to freak out and act out, leading to their incarceration, death or choice not to procreate will suffer the fate of any lifeform that fails to adapt. Maybe the Vatican's announcement that belief in ET life does not conflict with a belief in God was a very clever get-out clause so that if such a thing becomes fact, it will not lead to Catholics dying out, both as a religion and as people.
Life and evolution can be amazing and wonderful but of course can be ugly and brutal just as often. Those who survive a big change will do so because they were equipped to do so. It may be sad but some may just not be equipped to adapt to such a world-changing thing and I would not lose any sleep over anyone who resolutely fails to even try to accept such knowledge. I think the world can do without closed-minded people just fine.
There may be a bus coming along and it is up to every individual to choose to get on and go wherever it leads or stand still watching the rest of us do so. Word.

 

[mike]

Neural implants, the next quantum leap in human consciousness.

With a huge caveat. Remove the chip and you've got an atrophied neo-cortex due to its dependence to the chip. Not to mention the vulnerability to electromagnetic pulses.

Extreme high technology is a huge house of cards if you lose control of the foundations or the supporting infrastructures. Stone age anyone ?

Im not entirely sure adding such a chip would cause atrophy though, since its not genetic in nature, i'm of the mind the next generation would breed true to the genetic programming, producing perfectly normal humans, As long as we dont lose hard copy data like books and librarys, even the lose of electricity shouldnt reduce us to the stone age, steam age perhaps