Would Contact with Extraterrestrials Benefit or Harm Humanity?

[trainedobserver]

I dunno....it seems in order for a world to be habitable, it must be earthlike, which suggests similar development. We're in the same Universe where the same laws apply. I'd assume major progress of the kind they, like we, have made, requires rationality, organization, civilization. Oh I don't doubt that their ideology could be very different. But still perfectly comprehensible, and probably better--heck almost any view makes better sense than "I am the living bread..."lol.

Would the ideology or religion of an intelligent, technology using insect be comparable or compatible with human civilization's understanding of those things? It seems a wild stretch that they would. We could hope for something like mammals but that still wouldn't guarantee they would evolve socially along the same lines. We may be visited by whatever political and social institution is in power at any given moment. Certainly, if you take the long and varied history of reports there are different ships, beings, markings, and behavior exhibited over time in them. Like we have in our history, they may have explored, established outposts or colonies, only to experience a political change at home. Who knows? I don't think anyone really has much of a clue to be honest. It's all speculation and guess work based on little or no real information.

 

[Ezechiel]

...if we did, they 'd do much more than interfere a little. Why allow us to have nukes in the first place? Notice also that Malmstrom occurred over a decade after they supposedly admonished old Ike to "behave."

Looking at this from another perspective, you could say the Malmstrom event actually supports a prior meeting with government officials. The event may have been a 'demonstration' of their capabilities and a quick reminder of the objective of their visit 10 years earlier... Can't think of a better motive for these weird actions. Stanton Friedman is leaning towards this idea as a framework supporting the event timeline.

The 'Landlord' hypothesis starts making alot of sense when you add up bizarre stuff like 'UFO shoots missile'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qffIx2GWDo


If you take a look at all the weird military/UFO events, give them a sprinkle of credibility and try to build a big picture out of it, it becomes clear that intelligent external forces are at work.
These forces obviously work under rules that allow our existence or we wouldn't be here to speculate on them.

Stuff that could easily work under a 'Landlord exploiting his Sandbox' hypothesis:

• Covert genetic manipulation (testing biological scenarios)
• Terraforming (preparing the sandbox in a goldylocks zone)
• Random abductions (sandbox tag and release of bio entities)
• Cow mutilations (checking up on sandbox tests)
• Probing (O'hare.. wtf are these humans up to)
• Ressource exploitation (biological construct success stories)
• Interventions (saving the sandbox from nukes, damn these humans)
• Preparing life forms for export to other compatible planets

.... etc...

The hypothesis would explain why we are not be invaded by ETs but exploited instead. The earth offers a quasi-perfect environment in the goldylocks zone where you can do all kinds of complex biological tests in a dynamic and complex environment. However, should our current landlord get kicked out of our solar system by an aggressive non-empathic civilization with different objectives... our fate may be different lmao.

The basis for this 'hypothesis' could also be found in how a type 1 civilization would interfere with type 0 civlizations. Michio Kaku only talks about the energetic requirements of type 0,1,2,3 civilizations but never mentions the biological requirements

All of this reeks of exploitation and if you give a shred of credibility to UAP's, the message transmitted to humanity is that outside forces are in control of the fate of this planet. No earthly government in its right mind would admit to this unless forced to.

 

[trainedobserver]

The hypothesis would explain why we are not be invaded by ETs but exploited instead. The earth offers a quasi-perfect environment in the goldylocks zone where you can do all kinds of complex biological tests in a dynamic and complex environment. ...

The basis for this 'hypothesis' could also be found in how a type 1 civilization would interfere with type 0 civlizations. Michio Kaku only talks about the energetic requirements of type 0,1,2,3 civilizations but never mentions the biological requirements

All of this reeks of exploitation and if you give a shred of credibility to UAP's, the message transmitted to humanity is that outside forces are in control of the fate of this planet. No earthly government in its right mind would admit to this unless forced to.

The Earth could be the Bikini Atoll of this end of the Galaxy. A nice out of the way place.

 

[Ezechiel]

The Earth could be the Bikini Atoll of this end of the Galaxy. A nice out of the way place.

In the fifth element its called 'Fhloston Paradise'

Can you hear the Diva singing ?

 

[Trajanus]

Would the ideology or religion of an intelligent, technology using insect

I don't think insects are capable of evolving higher intelligence. Yu can't have a big brain without a sizeable body, which they never seemed to evolve, at any time. Of course, there are reports of "insectoid" UFO entities, but I think the phenomenon is putting us on--nothing unusual about that.

Certainly, if you take the long and varied history of reports there are different ships, beings, markings, and behavior exhibited over time in them.

A lot of which is most likely fake, or deceptive.

 

[Trajanus]

Looking at this from another perspective, you could say the Malmstrom event actually supports a prior meeting with government officials.

Na, if they had already laid down the law in '55, in an actual meeting, they shouldn't have had to do anything later. And look at the stories of shoot downs and possible UFOs fleeing from energy bursts fired at them (photographed from a shuttle).

All of this reeks of exploitation and if you give a shred of credibility to UAP's, the message transmitted to humanity is that outside forces are in control of the fate of this planet. No earthly government in its right mind would admit to this unless forced to.

There's exploitation and alien scheming but I don't think the government is so supine.

 

[Ezechiel]

I don't think insects are capable of evolving higher intelligence. Yu can't have a big brain without a sizeable body, which they never seemed to evolve, at any time. Of course, there are reports of "insectoid" UFO entities, but I think the phenomenon is putting us on--nothing unusual about that.

Remember how reptiles were able to grow to enormous dimensions in the Jurassic era. What allowed such size was high oxygen levels.... much higher than today. Perhaps under the right circumstances (atmospheric/chemical combinations) a sentient insectoid could eventually emerge when the 'goldylocks' sweet spot brain size was attained lol.

 

[Ezechiel]

Na, if they had already laid down the law in '55, in an actual meeting, they shouldn't have had to do anything later. And look at the stories of shoot downs and possible UFOs fleeing from energy bursts fired at them (photographed from a shuttle).

A bit of fun with the timeline:

Holloman AFB 1955: Stop nukin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS1nrujkyTQ


Limited test ban treaty 1963
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_Test_Ban_Treaty

Malmstrom 1967: Stop pilin up the damn nukes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF0kWIfdIwc


Strategic arms limitation talks (SALT) 1969.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Arms_Limitation_Talks

Rendlesham 1980: Underground stockpiles?, Smartass ! we can see them !..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/suffolk/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_9140000/9140524.stm

LOL... a bit like a little kid that needs a spanking once in a while

 

[wwkirk]

Remember how reptiles were able to grow to enormous dimensions in the Jurassic era. What allowed such size was high oxygen levels.... much higher than today. Perhaps under the right circumstances (atmospheric/chemical combinations) a sentient insectoid could eventually emerge when the 'goldylocks' sweet spot brain size was attained lol.

Grays seem a little bit like evolved dinosaurs. By the way, according to legend, the aliens who met Ike were Nordics.

 

[Ezechiel]

Grays seem a little bit like evolved dinosaurs. By the way, according to legend, the aliens who met Ike were Nordics.

Within the scope of millions of years of evolution, I don't see why evolution couldn't have forked a branch of sentient dino's. If I were to pick a dino... the velociraptor would probably be a good choice to spin out something like a grey. (ps. where are the fossils ?)

Lets pretend they attained type 1 status and migrated out before a global catastrophy (Cretaceous impact 65 mil years ago in Yucatan)... makes you wonder lol.

This is where your brain can spin out into Ron Hubbard land lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

Tom Cruise, John Travolta live there... oh boy

 

[mike]

Harry Harrison played with the idea in his Eden trilogy
In the parallel universe of this novel, Earth was not struck by an asteroid 65 million years before the present. Consequently, the Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event which wiped out the dinosaurs and other reptiles never happened, leaving the way clear for an intelligent species to eventually evolve from the mosasaur, a species of reptile related to the modern monitor lizards. This relationship would mean that the intelligent species are not dinosaurs but lizard-people.

The lizard-people are known as the Yilané, and are the dominant life form on most of the planet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_of_Eden
The Yilané, having had millions of years of civilization, have a very advanced society primarily based on a mastery of the biological sciences, especially genetic engineering, so much so that almost every tool and artifact they use is a modified lifeform

 

[trainedobserver]

I don't think insects are capable of evolving higher intelligence. Yu can't have a big brain without a sizeable body, which they never seemed to evolve, at any time.

That was just an example of a possible exotic non-mammalian life-form. Intelligent life evolving underneath some other sun on some other planet could very well take some other avenue, some other branch in the tree that life on this world never took.

 

[wwkirk]

The grays, if they are real, appear to have a very different mentality than humans. They are indifferent to what they are putting abductees through. But it is also possible, as some have surmised, that they are really a type of android. There's another weird possibility: an alien machine intelligence.

I think we will be ready for open contact when we meet the Star Trek criterion: a unified planet plus interstellar capability. We would be more "mature" at that stage.

 

[Trajanus]

Remember how reptiles were able to grow to enormous dimensions in the Jurassic era. What allowed such size was high oxygen levels.... much higher than today.

Strange, there have been suggestions that the archosaurian ancestors of dinosaurs evolved in response to low oxygen conditions at the start of the Triassic. I don't think oxygen levels had much to do with it; some trees were 30m high since the Pennsylvanian, and sauropods just radiated into the largest herbivorous niches. No dinosaur, however, approached high intelligence even after 100 million years of ecological dominance.

Perhaps under the right circumstances (atmospheric/chemical combinations) a sentient insectoid could eventually emerge when the 'goldylocks' sweet spot brain size was attained lol.

Never happened here in all the eons they've been around.

 

[Trajanus]

Harry Harrison played with the idea in his Eden trilogy
In the parallel universe of this novel, Earth was not struck by an asteroid 65 million years before the present. Consequently, the Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event which wiped out the dinosaurs and other reptiles never happened, leaving the way clear for an intelligent species to eventually evolve from the mosasaur, a species of reptile related to the modern monitor lizards. This relationship would mean that the intelligent species are not dinosaurs but lizard-people.

Sounds real dumb. For one thing, mosasaurs were marine, and I never heard any scientist suggest they might've been a steppingstone to higher intelligence.

 

[Ezechiel]

Strange, there have been suggestions that the archosaurian ancestors of dinosaurs evolved in response to low oxygen conditions at the start of the Triassic. I don't think oxygen levels had much to do with it; some trees were 30m high since the Pennsylvanian, and sauropods just radiated into the largest herbivorous niches. No dinosaur, however, approached high intelligence even after 100 million years of ecological dominance.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/309/5744/2202.abstract

Never happened here in all the eons they've been around.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070806112323.htm
“More than 300 million years ago, there was 31 to 35 percent oxygen in the air,” Dr. Kaiser said. “That means that the respiratory systems of the insects could be smaller and still deliver enough oxygen to meet their demands, allowing the creatures to grow much larger.”

Never happened but could have... maybe the threshold for an insectoid is 50% oxygen and sustained for more than 50 million years ... who knows ? Our planet never offered these conditions.

 

[wwkirk]

Strange, there have been suggestions that the archosaurian ancestors of dinosaurs evolved in response to low oxygen conditions at the start of the Triassic. I don't think oxygen levels had much to do with it; some trees were 30m high since the Pennsylvanian, and sauropods just radiated into the largest herbivorous niches. No dinosaur, however, approached high intelligence even after 100 million years of ecological dominance.

Regarding dinosaurs, my suggestion is that the grays (or their designers) could be dinosaur-type beings that evolved on a different world. I see them as smaller type dinosaurs that had to endure environmental pressure that selected for high intelligence. I'm not thinking of them as literal descendents of earth dinosaurs.

 

[Trajanus]

“More than 300 million years ago, there was 31 to 35 percent oxygen in the air,” Dr. Kaiser said. “That means that the respiratory systems of the insects could be smaller and still deliver enough oxygen to meet their demands, allowing the creatures to grow much larger.”

But they never did. IIRC gravity was another issue; their body plan may not work at large size.

Never happened but could have... maybe the threshold for an insectoid is 50% oxygen and sustained for more than 50 million years ... who knows ? Our planet never offered these conditions.

I was under the impression that oxygen levels at or above 35% would lead to catastrophic spontaneous combustion.

 

[Trajanus]

Regarding dinosaurs, my suggestion is that the grays (or their designers) could be dinosaur-type beings that evolved on a different world. I see them as smaller type dinosaurs that had to endure environmental pressure that selected for high intelligence. I'm not thinking of them as literal descendents of earth dinosaurs.

Russell suggested Troodon could've evolved into a sentient being here had Chicxulub not struck. Others like GSP didn't agree, however. I've heard of claims of "lizard-like skin" in some grays, and "reptoids" which may suggest dinosaurian origins but I take stories like that with a grain of salt. There have been many queer entities, even fish-like ones; IMO it's most parsimonious to consider most of 'em phony or deceptive.

 

[tyder001]

Here's a link to a review of a book that will make true believers mad and skeptics will grab on as another brick that breaks the e.t. horse's back. I'm of the opinion that human kind is unique. But, I'm still open minded enough to keep watching the skies.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204552304577116570107579152.html