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Werner Boch


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Angel of Ioren said:
Chris, how can you defend this guy? Wow.
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Easy. I can sympathize with a lonely farmer having to deal w/ hellish circumstances. I spent several hours grilling him on his story. There is something weird here that is NOT solely due to his paranoia.
Something (no, not his lack of animal husbandry skills) appears to have driven him into his present state of mind. What that is exactly, I don't know and you don't either -- I'm not a psychologist (none of you are, to my knowledge).
Sure, he's paranoid and that means he sure needs help. Sorry if that has earned me your scorn, Angelo. I have a lot of experience being a sympathetic ear for ranchers under duress.
 
A very frustrating interview, exacerbated for me by being stuck in traffic and having to endure his merry go round the coo coos nest responses.

In saying that his frustration is almost palpable. I felt like i was being drowned in his misery!! Its easy to sympathise with him, imagine if you were in his situation? a simple farmer havi g to contend with events he can't understand coupled with the financial strain of losing live stock seems to have taken this man over the edge and is completely understandable.


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Christopher O'Brien said:
There is something weird here that is NOT solely due to his paranoia.
Something (no, not his lack of animal husbandry skills) appears to have driven him into his present state of mind. What that is exactly, I don't know and you don't either -- I'm not a psychologist (none of you are, to my knowledge).
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Chris, can you elaborate on that? What elements do you believe cannot be explained by disease or other mundane problems?

There's one way of looking at this that crosses my mind, just thinking out loud. Isolation can indeed lead to some strange thoughts and experiences, and there are those who would say that isolation invites some altered states or experiences that cannot occur in areas with a lot of human or electronic activity. Many shamanic traditions depend upon the practitioner being isolated for an extended period in a harsh environment.

Ezechial joked about The Shining, but it does raise a thought in my head. In cases like Bock's, I think you can look at it on multiple levels. On the simplest level, we might say that he suffers from some personality disorder (or disorders) involving paranoia, and that his cattle suffered from neglect and mistreatment (if only from ignorance). On another level we might say that any elderly man living in isolation and doing a hard job in a cold environment will probably experience some eventual mental decay.

On a more speculative level, what if there exist entities (call them what you will) in a given area that may influence the psychology and behavior of humans? Perhaps it may be a good or bad influence. This may sound absurd, but if you have spent time alone in a place devoid of other people, perhaps it doesn't sound quite so crazy. I think we can sometimes experience things when alone that we cannot see in our usual environments, environments filled with technological noise and the thoughts of other people. So what if these entities have the ability to nudge people in certain directions, with the perceptions of the victim being filtered by their preexisting belief system?

In a sense, one can almost imagine Bock's farm being contaminated with poisonous things that consumed both his livestock and his mind.
 
Christopher O'Brien said:
Easy. I can sympathize with a lonely farmer having to deal w/ hellish circumstances. I spent several hours grilling him on his story. There is something weird here that is NOT solely due to his paranoia.
Something (no, not his lack of animal husbandry skills) appears to have driven him into his present state of mind. What that is exactly, I don't know and you don't either -- I'm not a psychologist (none of you are, to my knowledge).
Sure, he's paranoid and that means he sure needs help. Sorry if that has earned me your scorn, Angelo. I have a lot of experience being a sympathetic ear for ranchers under duress.
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No scorn Chris. He's just a little nutty, but maybe sympathy is what he needs.
 
Difficult episode to get through. When he finally said that he has given up, he's selling his cattle and no longer wants to work on building evidence the interview made more sense. If Chris hadn't kept pressing him to accept some help we would have never heard that he's done fighting. His closing remarks revealed his main motivation for coming on the show, he wants to make it clear that he has never attributed the occurrences on his farm to aliens. People have a need to be understood. Werner Bach wants us to understand that he doesn't now, and never has, claimed that his cattle are being killed by aliens.

I agree with Chris. There is something to this story beyond a paranoid person who hasn't been a successful cattle rancher blaming everyone but himself for his problems. It's too late to get to the bottom of his claims. He no longer has the energy or resources to even cooperate with an investigation. I know it's already been said, but just because he's paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get him.
 
Hello Paracasters:
I'm going to guess that someone will find out that Werner Bach is a successful hoaxer because during the last forty minutes of the "Werner Bach" show Chris and Gene gave multiple lifelines and even gave some tips on how to covertly pass around paranormal evidence to bypass the "secret society agents" along with basic scientific tools and protocols on evidence collection. But Werner's multiple counter arguments. "I'm sick." "I don't have a licence.", "I'm an illegal immigrant, they'll catch me.",
"I no longer have friends and family near me anymore.".
Those counter arguments remind me of how I would try to get out of unpopular family obligations by making multiple excuses.
I'm going to guess that over the next five years Werner will be reveled as a hoaxer.
 
My problem may be more immediate than whether he's a hoaxer. One of our regular listeners sent me a link to a supposedly Anti-Zion, Anti-Jewish radio show that Bock reportedly calls frequently. If he's into that stuff, he's unacceptable to us, regardless of whether those cattle deaths and mutilations are real or fake. No, I won't present the link to that radio show here; they do not deserve the publicity. I'll probably bring this up on our next show taping.
 
Gene Steinberg said:
My problem may be more immediate than whether he's a hoaxer. One of our regular listeners sent me a link to a supposedly Anti-Zion, Anti-Jewish radio show that Bock reportedly calls frequently. If he's into that stuff, he's unacceptable to us, regardless of whether those cattle deaths and mutilations are real or fake. No, I won't present the link to that radio show here; they do not deserve the publicity. I'll probably bring this up on our next show taping.
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Bravo to you on that one Gene. If this is true, I couldn't care less whether he's a hoaxer or not, he's an a**hole and I hope he gets hit with the "death ray" instead of his cows.
 
Solarion said:
Hello Paracasters:
I'm going to guess that someone will find out that Werner Bach is a successful hoaxer because during the last forty minutes of the "Werner Bach" show Chris and Gene gave multiple lifelines and even gave some tips on how to covertly pass around paranormal evidence to bypass the "secret society agents" along with basic scientific tools and protocols on evidence collection. But Werner's multiple counter arguments. "I'm sick." "I don't have a licence.", "I'm an illegal immigrant, they'll catch me.",
"I no longer have friends and family near me anymore.".
Those counter arguments remind me of how I would try to get out of unpopular family obligations by making multiple excuses.
I'm going to guess that over the next five years Werner will be reveled as a hoaxer.
Click to expand...

In my experience with paranoid people, it is almost as if the paranoia takes on a life of its own and tries to preserve itself. So for some of them, it's hard to say whether it is a hoax or a delusion. It isn't that they want to resolve their situation, but they seem to derive some sort of satisfaction from telling it over and over again. The various agencies he contacted were probably contacted quite a few times. Typically, the paranoid person doesn't want to test their belief. They aren't looking for confirmation. And sometimes, they seem to be able to tolerate contradictions between what happened and what they want to say happened. Like, maybe he sees the neighbor stop his truck on the edge of his property for a minute. When he tells the story the next time, he'll remember the man being there for 30 minutes. The next time, he remembers two hours. And maybe he believes it by this point. But at some point, the narrative becomes inflexible, and they refuse help because maybe it would invalidate this belief in what happened. Incidentally, Bock is a pretty extreme example, but one does seem to run into milder versions of paranoid people within the paranormal field.
 
1. An energy source (maser, laser, etc) would need to heat atmospheric N2 to 1600C to produce NO which can oxidize to NO2. Since a third degree burn happens when skin is exposed to 60C water for 5 seconds you'd think the cows face would be completely melted or on fire. No burns were found on the cows.
2. NO and NO2 is not poisonous. It could cause lung damage in high doses but this would presumably show easily in an autopsy.

Sources
NOx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Antiscald Inc.
Farmer blames heat rays for cows' deaths - New Brunswick - CBC News
 
Gene Steinberg said:
My problem may be more immediate than whether he's a hoaxer. One of our regular listeners sent me a link to a supposedly Anti-Zion, Anti-Jewish radio show that Bock reportedly calls frequently. If he's into that stuff, he's unacceptable to us, regardless of whether those cattle deaths and mutilations are real or fake. No, I won't present the link to that radio show here; they do not deserve the publicity. I'll probably bring this up on our next show taping.
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It would fit the paranoid rants. I still feel bad, but now it's only for the animals, not for him.

:(
 
Perhaps he believes that 'The Jews' stole all his cows(cash).....

The most laughable thing about anti-semitism is that in history, Jews have at the same time been accused of both being money-grabbing and poverty-stricken drains on resources - now that would be a neat trick.

Actually maybe we should refrain from accusing Bach of this until it's shown?
 
Yeah. There were moments when he was going on about nations and war-mongering and whatnot. So maybe, if it's that kind of radio programme, he was "only" unloading general conspiracy stuff there, not antisemitic paroles. But of course, from there, it's not a big step to fanaticism and racism. If he even called in to that show once, I'm afraid that makes him and this whole case suspect.

I still refuse to think that he might be doing this to his own animals, though, just to blame it on somebody and make himself important. What I'd like to know: has he always been that crazy or did real events, such as he described make him that way?
 
Forget associating a guy named Werner Bock with Nazism; he sounds like your average left-winger in this country. He fits right in. Engage in a rant about neocons and illegal wars, then in the same breath say some jaw-dropping anti-Israel/Semitic comments.
 
Alright, I have been hearing about this grand Jewish conspiracy for years. As a relatively poor guy, a man with a wife, and a pretty young child, and I just happen to be of Jewish descent, where do I need to go to sign up for my piece of the New World Order? I mean, I am quite willing to join the conspiracy if the paycheck is large enough...
 
I'm sorry williamjwhite. It's not enough to be of jewish decent. You also have to be a member of the Illuminati or Freemasons or luciferians or some other secret society and sadly none of those groups have easy sign up methods. Despite their famous status. It's how some conspiracy theorist get to rail against the jews without seeming anti-semetic.
 
Gene Steinberg said:
My problem may be more immediate than whether he's a hoaxer. One of our regular listeners sent me a link to a supposedly Anti-Zion, Anti-Jewish radio show that Bock reportedly calls frequently. If he's into that stuff, he's unacceptable to us, regardless of whether those cattle deaths and mutilations are real or fake. No, I won't present the link to that radio show here; they do not deserve the publicity. I'll probably bring this up on our next show taping.
Click to expand...

Gene, a lot of paranoid people hold anti-Jewish beliefs. I was already getting a vibe from him while listening to the show that he was probably going to be anti-semitic. He also believed that his Canadian neighbors and the Canadian government were conspiring against him. For people suffering from mental illness and paranoia, it is most often the CIA and the Jews who are the source of most of the evil in the world. That being said, I don't consider people with these ugly beliefs to be more evil or more unreliable than other people who hold equally delusional and ugly beliefs. In some ways, I would give a little more allowance to someone like Werner who is alone and probably friendless and psychologically disturbed, than I would to someone like the President of Egypt, who is often praised by Obama and the State Department, and who is receiving billions of dollars in U.S. taxpayer aide and advanced tanks and f-16 fighters. The blood-curdling anti-semitic rhetoric gushing of the muslim world on a daily basis is just as bad as anything that the Nazis came up with. Memri does a lot of good translation work and posts videos on their You Tube channel.
 
I really didn't like this episode. Mr. Bock wasn't the least bit coherent. It was difficult to follow him, and he never gave straight answers to any questions asked by Gene or Chris. He would always break into some crazy story that wandered from blaming the neighbor to blaming the government for possibly targeting Germans. I don't know, he sounded very troubled and I hope he seeks help. I do believe his cattle probably died, but it didn't seem like an extraordinary experience that many other farmers haven't faced given the number of viral and bacterial outbreaks that I have heard of in the past on cattle farms. Just seemed like bad luck for the most part. As far as the lasers he was talking about, at that point it seemed like he was just desperate to get some attention back to his story.
 
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