Tea party holding the US as hostage ?

[mike]

I am in a similar situation, having various symptoms but no insurance.

First of all, if its a private hospital, they CAN turn you away in the emergency room, which has happened to me before and a friend of mine as well.
At a city hosptial, I've already tried going to the emergency room and when they found out I had no insurance, they charged me double the amount because they didn't deem my symptoms to be emergency worthy, despite doing no tests on me to confirm this.
(my symptoms involve sharp neck pain and facial nerve pain and tingling that travels up the back of my head and down my forehead and eyes, along with tingling down my arm, just to give you an idea of what they deemed to be "no big deal")

They gave me a prescription for a muscle relaxer and charged me 400 dollars.

A few months later I went back again because the symptoms were getting worse. I thought this would have been proof that I need a test to find out what's going on, which they still denied me. Instead they sent me to their "Urgent Care Clinic" which is for low income individuals and those without insurance, where they too told me my symptoms were no big deal despite the progression and no testing done.

They gave me a prescription for ibuprofen and charged me 500 dollars.
(I was able to dispute the price down to 200)

I live in a metropolitan area so I'm not sure if that is part of the equation, but I wanted to share my experience. You may have to make a fuss to get actual treatment, though that didn't work for me. Also try to go on a weekday morning if possible and hope you can seen by someone compassionate.

Or you're best bet may be to try and get into a clinic that will see people without insurance and charge you based on your income. Ask a hospital to refer you to one in your area. Though I warn you, these places aren't much better, they are often over crowded and have almost no funding so its impossible for them to work efficiently or offer anything more than a pain reliever.

Again, if you don't live in a metro area, it may be easier for you.


Source:
personal experience with the horrible U.S. health care system

Down here, i can call an ambulance and be given treatment and medication and all for free...........

Personally i'd like for everyone on the planet to enjoy this basic human right as i see it

We have both a public and a private health care sector, The public service is no frills, Not so much as a TV in your room, but your medical issues will be taken care off.

If you want all the bells and whistles you can pay for private hospital treatment.

No one should be burdened with the worry of "can i afford this" when they are sick.

And here is the kicker, the US has enough nukes to crack the planet wide open Three Times Over.

The U.S. nuclear arsenal contained 31,175 warheads at its Cold War height (in 1966).[11] During the Cold War the United States built approximately 70,000 nuclear warheads, more than all other nuclear-weapon states combined. [12][13]

ICBM's, Bomber squadrons, and a sub fleet.

You could cut spending on this lot back to enough to destroy the planet just the once (once will do it)
And have enough money to provide basic health care to your population with plenty of change to spare.
Oddly enough when you look at those countrys who do provide this basic human right, they dont have an arsenal that could destroy the planet many times over

 

[DaveM]

IMHO a country that doesn't want a universal health care system in an environment where the costs of medication is skyrocketing is like a Jehovah witness refusing a blood transplant

It isn't a question of whether you want universal health care or not. It comes down to how much is this going to cost? Will the middle class (or what is left of them) have to pay exorbitant sums to have everyone covered? You sure aren't going to hear a debate or get answers from the current group pretending to be politicians in Washington.

 

[mike]

It isn't a question of whether you want universal health care or not. It comes down to how much is this going to cost? Will the middle class (or what is left of them) have to pay exorbitant sums to have everyone covered? You sure aren't going to hear a debate or get answers from the current group pretending to be politicians in Washington.

Here is how we do it

The Medicare Levy Surcharge is in addition to the 1.5% Medicare levy. It is calculated at the rate of 1%, 1.25% or 1.5% of:

• your taxable income
• your reportable fringe benefits, and
• any amount on which family trust distribution tax has been paid.

The Medicare levy is normally calculated at 1.5% of your taxable income but this rate can vary depending on the individual's circumstances.
You may be exempt from the levy or it may be reduced if you:

• Have a low income; or
• Are a prescribed person.

From 1 July 2014, the government will increase the Medicare levy from 1.5% to 2%.

Thats peanuts compared to the GST

The Goods and Services Tax (GST) in Australia is a value added tax of 10% on most goods and services transactions. GST is levied on most transactions in the production process, but is refunded to all parties in the chain of production other than the final consumer.

We have income tax on top of all of that, plus various other taxes and levies.

Taxation is your subscription to civilisation.

But the cost of public health care is peanuts, and the return in terms of quality of life and a healthy happy society is something money just cant buy.

 

[mike]

No guess work required, heres how it works here

Australian health system: how it works - myDr.com.au

Its not perfect, perfection is a rarity in any system. But by crikey it beats what you lot have by a country mile.

Imagine for a moment just how good it would feel to know that no matter what goes wrong with you, you will be treated no matter what.

Why wouldnt you be demanding your Govt spend your tax dollars on that first , before kill toys that could destroy the planet many times over.

Lets go from macro to micro for a minute, if you , your wife or your child were sick, would you spend this weeks wages on medicine or a new shotgun..........

Defence is a valid national expense, but in my world health care is too and it should take precidence

Defence is about what might happen, health care is about what has happened

To me it makes sense to pay for that first

Defence is about spending money on damage that might happen
Health care is about spending money on damage that has happened

Pay for that first, you know it makes sense

 

[Jeff Davis]

Mike,
I mean the following with a great deal of respect and admiration. BTW, you are preaching to choir with respect to government matters in Oz. I LOVE their systematic approach, problem is, we are NOT Oz. Not even remotely comparable. Dude, just stating tongue in cheek, you have some nerve coming at this issue from the standpoint of national social compassion when Oz is the most defiantly intolerant country on Earth when it comes to differing cultures infringing on theirs. I LOVE THAT!!!! They make the USA look like Mother Theresa in that respect. I respect that because that leader of yours has stones that I'm surprised he's able to walk around with. I personally admire the way he speaks his mind, in a frank and honest manner. Not condescending and pseudo intellectually like that teleprompter reading bozo for a president that we have.

Now, back to matters at hand: IMO, this thread does not just represent a limited take on varied perspective considerations for what are the extolled virtues of socialized medicine, or what might be your projected idealisms as applied in fantasy to the USA. I AGREE with you however, Oz has a KILLER government policy and indoctrinated socialized medicine program. Go to Europe and let me know how socialized medicine works out for you. My wife of 20 years is natively from Poland, although a citizen here. She moved here in her early 20s.

When you dismiss my entire thread however, which is filled to the brim with an experience based rationale in conjunction to what this thread really represents, which is namely an anti tea party, or right wing sentiment, you do me a serious hurt. That's not right Mike. You really short changed me. Don't do that, even though it is easy to brush it all aside cause it's impossible to dismiss. Come on man, I deserve better than that. Respond to something I actually stated at least. This thread is not devoted to "Obama Care", or whatever the prince is nicknaming his lobby swapping social engineering this week. It reflects a much larger scope of bi-partisan considerations. At least I thought it was going that way. I am not blaming anything on anything. I am stating emphatically that the USA's Welfare system is a catastrophic mistake. We don't want to confuse things here.

I am NOT equating the socialized medicine system in your country with the USA's Welfare system. At this point, I'm thinking, that as much expresses quite well the limits of our real experience and knowledge.

But Jeff you are trying to pin the obvious and undisputed faults within the welfare system on a universal health care component you dont even have yet...........

Of all the components of a welfare system, health care is the least likely to be prone to fraudulent misuse, while at the same time doing the most easily quantifiable good.

If your answer to the question

"Why dont i support a universal health care programme"

Is, welfare systems are flawed. Its not a good enough answer imo

Sometimes our choices are between greater and lessor evils



If a universal basic health care system fixed nothing more than this shocking statistic it would imo be well worth it.

How many of those 62 percent ended up on the scrapheap of welfare because they couldnt pay for a service that down here is free ?


Im not disputing other components of welfare can lead to fraud and dependancy, but we dont see that here with our basic free health care system, indeed a case can be made for the reverse.
A poor and sick person cant work and provide for themselves, getting them well should be the first step and it should be free and easy for them to take this step.

I get the dependancy issues you have with other components to welfare
Teach a man to fish and he eats for life, i get this

But its a neat trick to teach a man to operate on his own cancer.

Of all the components of a total welfare system. medical care is the least likely to be abused, and the most likely to do positive good.

I dont understand why anyone would oppose such a thing

 

[XAF-B-WATERS]

October 3rd
“Why are they screaming so loudly? Why are they so personal? Why are they so filled with hate and fear,” Sen. Cruz asked. “It’s because the American people are mobilized, are passionate and energized, and, even worse, understand that Obamacare is hurting millions of Americans. That has the left terrified out of their minds.”

Hell, the Paracast members are terrified as well it seems!

 

[mike]

Mike,
I mean the following with a great deal of respect and admiration. BTW, you are preaching to choir with respect to government matters in Oz. I LOVE their systematic approach, problem is, we are NOT Oz. Not even remotely comparable. Dude, just stating tongue in cheek, you have some nerve coming at this issue from the standpoint of national social compassion when Oz is the most defiantly intolerant country on Earth when it comes to differing cultures infringing on theirs.

Youve got to be joking ?


A Multicultural Australia

Dont let the publiscised border control issues confuse you, we are very tolerant and compassionate here.
Multiculturalism is quite literally part of our DNA here

Harmony Day is celebrated around Australia on 21 March. It is a day where all Australians celebrate cultural diversity and is also the United Nation’s International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. It's about community participation, inclusiveness and respect — a time to reflect on where Australia has come from, while also recognising the traditional owners of the land.

We have a boat people problem, but the core of that is we have people who arrive by boats , not because they are genuine refugees. But because they simply want the lucky country lifestyle we enjoy here.
For every queue jumper that pays thousands to fly to indonesia and then buy passage on a boat to get here in defiance of our immigration and border protection policys, a genuine refugee misses out.

Our policy regarding boat people has everything to do with this

Australia’s reputation as an exporter of high-quality, clean agricultural produce depends largely on its freedom from exotic pests and diseases. The introduction of exotic pests and diseases could have serious environmental and economic consequences for Australia, for example it has been estimated that a major outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease could cost Australia as much as $13 billion.
Quarantine and trade
Australia has stringent quarantine requirements to help protect human health, Australia’s agricultural industries and its environment.
Australia ensures that it imports plants and plant materials as well as animals and animal materials in a carefully controlled manner to lessen any quarantine risk.
Import permits are issued by the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service (AQIS) after quarantine risks have been carefully examined. If the risk can be managed, AQIS will grant a permit.
Quarantine is an integral part of supporting safe trade that gives Australian consumers access to a greater range of products.

Quarantine: protecting Australia's unique environment - About Australia - Australian Government Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

And nothing to do with racial intolerance
We are a truly multicultural melting pot and all the richer as a society because of it.

Getting back to your problems though

Doesnt it strike you as odd that you'd rather spend billions on Nukes that can kill millions, than health care that can save millions and improve their quality of life.

Even in the midst of this current crisis

Of course, not everything will shut. The US military will not be affected,
The one exception to the legislative futility was a bill to ensure that military service members would be paid during the shutdown. Obama signed it into law late Monday night

 

[mike]

Which reminds me......

I used to work for a public maternity hospital here in Sydney, managing its computer systems.

Case in point.

A german national women down under for a family funeral needed urgent medical help, she was "medicare ineligible".
We treated her and billed her the grand total of.........Nothing

We had as part of our budgetary provisions a 100k reserve for just such cases.

Do all tourists get free medical care here ? No they dont, it needs to be an emergency case. And its not something we publiscise, you are only hearing about because as computer manager i was privy to the billing systems and the parameters of the "medicare ineligible" code within the system.
Once that 100k per annum was spent we had to get special approval from the Dept of Health for extra MI cases, which were reviewed on a case by case basis.
Up to that 100k pa it was an inhouse decision.

Its a classic example of compassion and charity balanced by the sensible checks and balances they require.

Oh this brings back memorys
I got paid a good wage in this job, sick leave holidays, long service leave (after 10 years i got 3 months long service leave on full pay plus a 17 percent lsl bonus)
Its a the job i am most proud of in my career.
I went on 24 hour call by choice, and not once charged overtime.
I subscribed at my own expense to a pager service to facilitate this
Eventually i purchased a pair of modems with a baud rate of 600 bps (hard to believe these days) one for the mainframe and one for my place and borrowed an unused digital VT100 terminal , so i could fix the easy stuff from home.
For example if the backup at 2 in the morning fell over (not enough disk space on the backup volume) it would leave the patient master index file and admissions systems locked. Many was the night i would get paged out of bed and would use this setup to unlock the PMI from home. But if i had to go on site in the middle of the night i did so.

Given my predecessor was happy to leave these issues unfixed until 9:00 am the next working day, i was very popular amoungst staff and management for this above and beyond approach.

I am very proud to have served my society in this way. working for the dept of health was the most rewarding job i ever had, i still miss it and even dream about it some nights

 

[Gene Steinberg]

October 3rd
“Why are they screaming so loudly? Why are they so personal? Why are they so filled with hate and fear,” Sen. Cruz asked. “It’s because the American people are mobilized, are passionate and energized, and, even worse, understand that Obamacare is hurting millions of Americans. That has the left terrified out of their minds.”

Hell, the Paracast members are terrified as well it seems!

I get it. This is just a satire. You can't really believe this nonsense.

Terrified of what? Health care? What kind of medication are you on?

 

[mike]

And you know what, Americans are exceptional.
You are magnificent
You could replicate our system easily and set an example for the whole world.
You could raise and set the benchmark on this issue.
Show the whole planet how its done
You could have the best universal health care system the planet has ever seen.
You have the expertise and the technology

All you need is the will to do it

 

[Michael Allen]

Weird as it may seem, there simply is nothing to debate or discuss here--those who are against ACA are simply stuck in the dark ages and need to get over it or leave the country for a better alternative, there are plenty of countries that buy into the idea that the people can take care of themselves and don't need pesky governments getting in the way.

Organized according to the progressive deterioration of public services--anyone who hates government providing basic services to its people should consider any of the following resorts:

Chad
Somalia
South Sudan
Haiti
Niger
Congo
North Korea
Central African Republic
Nigeria
Zimbabwe
Liberia
....


The Failed States Index 2013 | The Fund for Peace




In modern, developed countries, the term public services often includes:

• Electricity
• Education
• Environmental protection
• Fire service
• Gas
• Health care
• Law enforcement
• Military
• Public broadcasting
• Public library
• Public security
• Public transportation
• Public housing
• Social services
• Telecommunications
• Town planning
• Waste management
• Water supply network

Wikipedia

 

[stonehart]

 

[Jeff Davis]

Youve got to be joking ?


A Multicultural Australia

Dont let the publiscised border control issues confuse you, we are very tolerant and compassionate here.
Multiculturalism is quite literally part of our DNA here



We have a boat people problem, but the core of that is we have people who arrive by boats , not because they are genuine refugees. But because they simply want the lucky country lifestyle we enjoy here.
For every queue jumper that pays thousands to fly to indonesia and then buy passage on a boat to get here in defiance of our immigration and border protection policys, a genuine refugee misses out.

Our policy regarding boat people has everything to do with this


Quarantine: protecting Australia's unique environment - About Australia - Australian Government Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

And nothing to do with racial intolerance
We are a truly multicultural melting pot and all the richer as a society because of it.

Getting back to your problems though

Doesnt it strike you as odd that you'd rather spend billions on Nukes that can kill millions, than health care that can save millions and improve their quality of life.

Even in the midst of this current crisis

The liberal media goons have the nerve to call this an "urban legend".

AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER TELL MUSLIMS..TAKE IT OR LEAVE!

Yep, seems like a cultural melting pot to me. That is as long as each cultures on it's own burner. It's YOU that has to be joking. I am thinking quite truthfully, that you just support the left aspect of what is primarily a govern mentally conservative majority populous.

 

[DaveM]

No, we sure aren't like Australia here in the US. This is a country where we prefer having a logjam instead of righting the ship of state. Our Speaker of the House is drunk on the floor of the Capitol building and answers only to the conservatives and Tea Party members. I wouldn't hold my breath for a reasoned debate anytime soon.

 

[truthseeker]

Congress, staff required to buy gold ObamaCare plans (Video) - The Hill's Floor Action

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Oh, and someone from Fox News admitted today that there was a possible DDOS attack against the New York health care servers. OK, now we have one explanation why the servers are slammed. So if they are being attacked, who are the attackers? Who wants AFA to fail?

 

[Jeff Davis]

Oh, and someone from Fox News admitted today that there was a possible DDOS attack against the New York health care servers. OK, now we have one explanation why the servers are slammed. So if they are being attacked, who are the attackers? Who wants AFA to fail?

Gene,
In relation to the these DDOS attacks, is it possible to determine their origin? I am thinking more in terms of the Paracast Forum's recent DDOS event here. Is it possible to route something like that through some type of mask like TOR? It would seem too slow to have the desired effect. So, it would seem like you should be able to track their origin. Obviously it's all not this simple, but how do you cover your tracks when the method you are using is continual traffic?

 

[Stagger Lee]

While not true that an ambulance service would leave someone behind who didn't have health insurance, I have heard that not having an insurance card in your wallet could determine which hospital you are taken. I can't think of it now, but there is a term for the process of checking a patients wallet for an insurance card. "Cold search" or some such term. Let's be honest though- while you won't get turned down for care- those with good insurance will surely get the better care, all around.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Gene,
In relation to the these DDOS attacks, is it possible to determine their origin? I am thinking more in terms of the Paracast Forum's recent DDOS event here. Is it possible to route something like that through some type of mask like TOR? It would seem too slow to have the desired effect. So, it would seem like you should be able to track their origin. Obviously it's all not this simple, but how do you cover your tracks when the method you are using is continual traffic?

It's not always possible, and it really doesn't help. The host should have hardware to mitigate such problems, but it appears they aren't well protected. We have moved to a backup server on another service, and there are no problems at all.

There are third-party CDMs, such as Cloudflare, which allow you to run your sites redirected through their services. But the business plans for maximum protection can cost up to $200 per domain per month, which is clearly not a viable solution for us.

 

[Muadib]

While not true that an ambulance service would leave someone behind who didn't have health insurance, I have heard that not having an insurance card in your wallet could determine which hospital you are taken. I can't think of it now, but there is a term for the process of checking a patients wallet for an insurance card. "Cold search" or some such term. Let's be honest though- while you won't get turned down for care- those with good insurance will surely get the better care, all around.

I've heard it referred to as the "wallet biopsy."