Tea party holding the US as hostage ?

[pixelsmith]

It's not about whether or not you care what American History says. As I explained very thoroughly (but which you didn't read, as usual) it's about how this history is still shaping our dialog and our actions. It's about the lengths a large portion of the populace will do to keep blacks in the role of second-class citizens, including doing their best to deny blacks the rights the rest of us take for granted every single day.

Pretending reality doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

I read every word. I just don't give shit about what you say. You and your ilk are part of the problem.

 

[Tyger]

Ezechiel,It seems to me that you are more programmed than those dirty republicans you are going after. Care to state a little fact, like a Democracy is supposed to reflect the people's will and not the governments? I doon't remember getting to vote on prince Obama's healthcare reform. Why do you suppose that is? Is it because he's a racist?

We are in a republic - a representative democracy. We are expecting our representatives to abide by the constitution and to pass the laws for all of us, not just the monied few, or the current manufactured fads. We don't vote directly on the laws being made - but we do have a say when we vote for our representatives.

One of the great contradictions of the US is that were it not for the elites in the past, we would not have had as good as we did have it for quite as long as we did. It's more that (all) the elites (cabals) have 'gone bad' - all at once - for a short but significant period of time. It is lumbering - but it takes time for the cart to right itself - and in the meantime the damage done is extensive - as in the 00's.

It's an imperfect system - and in many ways has never really worked perfectly. Corruption and manipulation - back-room dealings, closed conventions, bullies on the street corners fixing loaded elections, the wealthy 'managing' the town - you name it - it's all been there. Someone mentioned Kennedy being the last 'good' president - I say this as someone who is originally from Massachusetts and would have voted for a Kennedy were they in jail - Kennedy was pure PR and sex appeal, but knew how to take care of people (not in a bad way), as did LBJ. One couldn't get more down-and-dirty than the politics of South Boston, or the real terror of the Irish Mafia in cahoots with a corrupt FBI.

BTW - in general, to everyone - I am very much enjoying this conversation. Learning a lot.

 

[Michael Allen]

One would be very stupid to assume the reasoning behind the Koch funding of the Tea Party has anything to do with taking down ACA. More likely its a good hook, the Koch funding in support of the TP probably has more to do with deregulation altogether, getting the government out of their business so they can continue (as they always have) operationally unimpeded by pesky environmental laws. This is not surprising--what is surprising and ironic is that they probably operationally undermine the freedom of their own workers and further impinge on their civil liberties more than even the most totalitarian of entities in the world today, both state and non-state actors alike. Actually come to think of it, its not surprising, as anyone who claims the government is doing too much is probably saying so because they'd like to take over the business and perhaps exact conditions worse that the "tyrants" that are currently in power. Anyone who gets a group together to take down a government (which is what the TP is trying to do, don't kid yourself) is probably planning a much worse alternative. This is not so much a statement about the TP constituents view as it is the organizational view of its financial bases.

So much for ACA--healthcare is just an easy "hook" to grab the needed consensus to vote out parties that have anything to do with governmental interference (or at least Koch-unapproved government interference--both domestic and foreign).

Even more astonishing is the constant barrage of mechanical (almost hypnotic) verbiage coming from the rabid anti-ACA people in support of the TP precepts: i.e. in that they continue to claim that ACA is somehow the same as the other universal health programs found in other countries. What the people behind these claims fail to notice is the huge chasm between the two notions--universal healthcare, whatever it is, is not what ACA accomplishes, not by a long shot. And you can thank the Republican party (the moderates, not necessarily the TP) for that "compromise" that lead us to the situation we are in now. It's almost as if I walked into a cell full of people throwing a huge fit over how a rancid piece of rat meat is going to be parsed out to everyone.

 

[Tyger]

I went on Amazon and like I usually do I read some of the reviews. This one popped out at me -

Much is Excellent, But Open to Severe Criticisms
The Rise of the Fourth Reich: The Secret Societies That Threaten to Take Over America (Hardcover)

Author Marrs's premise that the US is rapidly becoming a fascist state is hardly open to question any more, but his pointing to Nazi Germany as the origin of this trend misses the mark. Nonetheless, this book is a valuable read for all, regardless of the reader's political persuasion or positioning on the left or right.

Unfortunately the author damages his work as early as in his Introduction with false facts. For example, on page 1 he states that the bodies of Mussolini and his mistress "were left hanging from lampposts." Actually they were hung by their heels from the canopy of a gasoline station in Milan. On page two, Hitler's remains were found by the Soviets, positive identification was made from dental records, and part of Hitler's skull was retained by Stalin as a war souvenir. The two pages about Hitler's possible escape are pure fantasy and at odds with documented history. Even his definition of terms is poor, for example the term "Nazi" is not a contraction from "National Socialist" but rather the first two syllables of "Nationalsozialismus" (one word) pronounced in German as Na-tsi (National is pronounced Na-tsi-oo-nal in four syllables). I could go on and on, but suffice it to say, the author plays fast and loose with some facts to spice up his theme when no spicing is needed, and such lack of historical scholarship calls his other facts into question.

Another example might be made of the Skull and Bones Society at Yale. Certainly this was an organization whose members were drawn into the Bilderbergs, Trilateral Commission and Council on Foreign Relations, but casting this college society as a fascist conspiracy group is like condemning the Boy Scouts or DeMolay for the evils some of their members bring about in later years.

Nonetheless, author Marr does identify the most terrifying secret group today that is likely to bring an end to American sovereignty -- the Bilderbergs (B), supported by their agents The Round Table in Europe, and the Trilateral Commission (TC) and the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) here in the US. These groups are well documented for wishing to end American national sovereignty, imposing global taxes, and wanting to reduce the American standard of living to come into line with the world's average. They have achieved the European Union, and their next step is to form a North American Union out of Canada, the US, and Mexico with a standard currency, the Amero. These programs are very far advanced, and the public needs to take action at this very late date. Marr correctly points out that private ownership of weapons in the US acts as a significant curb to these ambitions as does the history of individual freedom in the US.

The above critique is voiced in many reviews - factual errors in the little things brings into question the larger. As one 'review of the review' says: "I, too, am disconcerted by errors of fact. They are mostly of an obvious nature and mostly irrelevant in the general scheme of things but they do throw the rest of the context into question. If you don't get the small things right, how can you possibly get the big things right? This book does suffer from a degree of incaution and that does draw down the credibility but my sense is that there is much more right than wrong here. It is too bad that it has to be filtered as you go to strain out the noise of those annoying little details."

Marr loses his way in attempting to pin the actions of these groups on Nazis or their influence. Like the Bolshevik revolutionaries, many of the individuals actively working to foster this new One World Order are Jewish (Kissinger immediately comes to mind) -- something that puts them at odds with Hitler's racial underpinning of his state. In addition, Hitler would have maintained his nation-state as the supreme body for world leadership -- today the One World Order types seek a Supra-National Socialist (or Supra-Nazi) world governing body, controlled by them through the management of the political process and public-private partnerships (PPPs). Marrs is correct in his descriptions of these PPP organizations and how the corporate and political worlds are managed by the globalists.

Marr correctly points out that Jimmy Carter was the first President to be catapulted from obscurity by the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderbergs by Zbigniew Brzezinski and David Rockefeller. He also is correct in that the Reagan Presidency was managed to an extreme by these organizations, as were the first Bush administration (Bush himself was a member of all three), Clinton's (Bill is also a member of all three), George W. Bush (essentially everyone below Bush are members, and most disconcerting, Obama has been stage-managed from 1983 by Brzezinski and others, and is little more than a front man for the Bilderbergs. That's why Bill Clinton became so enraged when he saw the Bilderberg and TC support go to Obama instead of his wife -- she was considered to be less manageable than Obama. Kerry was also a Bilderberg, and indeed, so is Chris Dodd, one of the architects of the mortgage mess and Henry Paulson, the man who will be transferring 700 billion dollars from American taxpayers to his Bilderberg buddies. For those who still have doubts concerning this manipulation, consider the Bilderberg action when the gasoline prices reached $4.00 at the pump and McCain began surging in the polls due to his energy policies. The Bilderbergs took swift action in the oil futures market as only they could do, and three months later, high gasoline prices have been forgotten as an economic issue. Hey, folks, that's control that would be far beyond Hitler's comprehension.

Hmmm.....so here we go. This review is not the book but it is very revealing of the politics fizzing in the background. Also, the problem with this is human nature. The best laid plans always have to contend with human nature - and it's hard to keep the individualist from standing up, intelligent people thinking for themselves. Conspiracies work to an extent - but they usually suffer the fate of over-extended empires - or in Eddie Izzard's words - 'collapse like a flan in a cupboard'.

So buy and read this book, but soft peddle the Hitler connection. The actual reality is much worse, and probably irreversible due to the propaganda taught in American schools since World War II and sent out every day on American TV stations. For your viewing pleasure, all of the major media outlets (including Fox -- Murdock is a Bilderberg) are owned or controlled by Bilderberg members. You'll never hear O'Reilly or Hannity on Fox mention the Bilderbergs, Bill Moyers at PBS is PBS's primary Bilderberg member, and the New York Times and Washington Post are little more than Bilderberg house organs. Enjoy yourself -- it's later than you think.

I would have to agree with the first sentence. Like great epics on the silver screen - all events appear larger-than-life. Thus do the concoctions of conspiracist theories, as well, imo. It's all larger-than-life - life-and-death - dramatic and compelling - massively successful in implementation - and huge tip-off: fear based, with a bogey-man to keep the hate/fear stirred.

However, I am intrigued. I will read it at some point when the opportunity presents itself. I am aware of the banal, mundane history of many of the organizations mentioned - and if the author scrambles those histories in favor of the sensational (from my perspective), I'll let you know. The Bilderberg stuff is an old chestnut - been around a long time - very questionable, in my book - but I'll read the book with an open mind. Then there is the inexplicable mention of the Illuminati - an urban legend if ever there was one. That one will make it hard to keep reading since it is a modern fabrication - but 'twill see. I'll give it a go.

But I can't help having the niggling feeling that books like this manipulate more than they illuminate. If you believe this stuff - what kind of filter does one have when one views the political and economic landscape? Powerless, I would imagine. Harrowing on some level. I am a skeptic from the get-go.

 

[Tyger]

Even more astonishing is the constant barrage of mechanical (almost hypnotic) verbiage coming from the rabid anti-ACA people in support of the TP precepts: i.e. in that they continue to claim that ACA is somehow the same as the other universal health programs found in other countries. What the people behind these claims fail to notice is the huge chasm between the two notions--universal healthcare, whatever it is, is not what ACA accomplishes, not by a long shot. And you can thank the Republican party (the moderates, not necessarily the TP) for that "compromise" that lead us to the situation we are in now. It's almost as if I walked into a cell full of people throwing a huge fit over how a rancid piece of rat meat is going to be parsed out to everyone.

Single-Payer.

 

[exo_doc]

I read every word. I just don't give shit about what you say. You and your ilk are part of the problem.

Geeeez Pixel. I've seen you jump on people for displaying this exact attitude. A personal attack followed by a massive lumping into generalities.
R'Lady had some good points. If you disagreed with her, why not list her points with your rebuttals and keep the discussion on point without nastiness?
"We can all be adults here without name calling,... can't we Mr Poopy-pants?" (Leslie Nielson quote from "Police Squad")

 

[pixelsmith]

Geeeez Pixel. I've seen you jump on people for displaying this exact attitude. A personal attack followed by a massive lumping into generalities.
R'Lady had some good points. If you disagreed with her, why not list her points with your rebuttals and keep the discussion on point without nastiness?
"We can all be adults here without name calling,... can't we Mr Poopy-pants?" (Leslie Nielson quote from "Police Squad")

Yes I was harsh. However I do not believe "ilk" is name calling and I stand by my observation that she is helping to perpetuate the "race war". Apologies to anyone including RL if you think I called her/you a derogatory name.

 

[Ezechiel]

But I can't help having the niggling feeling that books like this manipulate more than they illuminate. If you believe this stuff - what kind of filter does one have when one views the political and economic landscape? Powerless, I would imagine. Harrowing on some level. I am a skeptic from the get-go.

Read the same reviews. I imagine that if Jim Marrs becomes the cornerstone from which you view world dynamics... (especially if you include Hitler's access to alien technology in the framework), then you can't help but feel totally powerless and infinitely vulnerable.

Ultimately its a choice... live believing you can change stuff for the better or live under a suspected alien rule that manipulates and tortures you for fun ?

 

[Han]

As an outsider (an Englishman) I find it very very strange and in a way unpatriotic to not want the people of your nation to be looked after.
My understanding is that if you are born in America then you are American, end of story.
Why would any person not want help to be given the needy and desperate? Especially people who claim to be Patriots or "good honest Christians", I think the strong should be judged by how they treat the weak and vulnerable.

I wish people who take "pride" in being of a certain race or colour would explain exactly what role or decision they took in, who, when and where they were born?

The way I see it, the "race" issue should not be part of debate, unless "help" was only being offered to a specific racial group.

I am aware that I am an idealist, and that my own nation is guilty of many things, but I am still suprised that the American people do not and have not demanded a national health care system, and before any body raises the issue of how much it would cost: I say the government could just print the money, they seemed only too willing to help out the banks!
Further more I genuinely believe that a Nations only real "asset" is its populace, so its primary purpose should be to protect those people, and their "health" is part of that responsibility.

Alms not Arms!


finally I think that "history" is a double edged sword and is too often wielded maliciously, resulting in "hatred" and prejudice.

contemporary propaganda has evolved to such a degree that its presence is only dimly perceptible, even to the keenest eye. But its effectiveness should not be underestimated: I for example, have an opinion on the issue of "obamacare" and I live thousands of miles away!

 

[Jeff Davis]

I went on Amazon and like I usually do I read some of the reviews. This one popped out at me -



The above critique is voiced in many reviews - factual errors in the little things brings into question the larger. As one 'review of the review' says: "I, too, am disconcerted by errors of fact. They are mostly of an obvious nature and mostly irrelevant in the general scheme of things but they do throw the rest of the context into question. If you don't get the small things right, how can you possibly get the big things right? This book does suffer from a degree of incaution and that does draw down the credibility but my sense is that there is much more right than wrong here. It is too bad that it has to be filtered as you go to strain out the noise of those annoying little details."



Hmmm.....so here we go. This review is not the book but it is very revealing of the politics fizzing in the background. Also, the problem with this is human nature. The best laid plans always have to contend with human nature - and it's hard to keep the individualist from standing up, intelligent people thinking for themselves. Conspiracies work to an extent - but they usually suffer the fate of over-extended empires - or in Eddie Izzard's words - 'collapse like a flan in a cupboard'.



I would have to agree with the first sentence. Like great epics on the silver screen - all events appear larger-than-life. Thus do the concoctions of conspiracist theories, as well, imo. It's all larger-than-life - life-and-death - dramatic and compelling - massively successful in implementation - and huge tip-off: fear based, with a bogey-man to keep the hate/fear stirred.

However, I am intrigued. I will read it at some point when the opportunity presents itself. I am aware of the banal, mundane history of many of the organizations mentioned - and if the author scrambles those histories in favor of the sensational (from my perspective), I'll let you know. The Bilderberg stuff is an old chestnut - been around a long time - very questionable, in my book - but I'll read the book with an open mind. Then there is the inexplicable mention of the Illuminati - an urban legend if ever there was one. That one will make it hard to keep reading since it is a modern fabrication - but 'twill see. I'll give it a go.

But I can't help having the niggling feeling that books like this manipulate more than they illuminate. If you believe this stuff - what kind of filter does one have when one views the political and economic landscape? Powerless, I would imagine. Harrowing on some level. I am a skeptic from the get-go.

So you'll take the unsubstantiated word of someone you don't know over someone that at least you are familiar with? Is that correct? Sounds like going out and attempting to find evidence to fit your hypothesis at wholesale prices, while doubling down on the cost of the evidence itself. Not good science. Not good thinking. Try finding a single non-fiction book, contemporary ones that people actually read, and show me one without negative detracting reviews.

If anyone is honestly not familiar with the practice of competing authors chiding their competition in reviews on Amazon, yeah, that happens a great deal and is virtually meaningless. This is all, 100% completely unsubstantiated nonsense. When it comes to Biography | Jim Marrs, don't even go there. The man is one of the most respected journalists on the planet for pete's snake.

So apart from your "niggling" feelings here, you got NOTTA.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Read the same reviews. I imagine that if Jim Marrs becomes the cornerstone from which you view world dynamics... (especially if you include Hitler's access to alien technology in the framework), then you can't help but feel totally powerless and infinitely vulnerable.

Ultimately its a choice... live believing you can change stuff for the better or live under a suspected alien rule that manipulates and tortures you for fun ?

What in the name of clear headed thinking are you talking about here? Jim Marrs DOES NOT contend that aliens tortue us for fun. What an incredibly stupid, if not down right ignnorant thing to state. You are being absoluetly ridiculous, and truthfully, I sense more racism coming from you than I do RL.

Please quote where Marrs makes the claim that you are stating he did within context.

 

[Ezechiel]

What in the name of clear headed thinking are you talking about here? Jim Marrs DOES NOT contend that aliens tortue us for fun. What an incredibly stupid, if not down right ignnorant thing to state. You are being absoluetly ridiculous, and truthfully, I sense more racism coming from you than I do RL.

Please quote where Marrs makes the claim that you are stating he did within context.

Just echoing the reviews... still haven't read the book yet.

Currently watching this stuff
Jim Marrs: Alien Agenda - YouTube

 

[Jeff Davis]

Just echoing the reviews... still haven't read the book yet.

Currently watching this stuff
Jim Marrs: Alien Agenda - YouTube

Ezechiel,
I apologize for being an ass to you. I shouldn't have done that, but, please don't spread lies and make someone look bad that is typically PRAISED for how well he researches what he documents. He deserves so much better than that. I did you a favor. Take advantage of it and enjoy honestly learning something new. Check his facts yourself, and quit listening that IDIOT BOX that so many around here seem to be so ultimately programmed by.

 

[mike]

As an outsider (an Englishman) I find it very very strange and in a way unpatriotic to not want the people of your nation to be looked after.
My understanding is that if you are born in America then you are American, end of story.
Why would any person not want help to be given the needy and desperate? Especially people who claim to be Patriots or "good honest Christians", I think the strong should be judged by how they treat the weak and vulnerable.

I wish people who take "pride" in being of a certain race or colour would explain exactly what role or decision they took in, who, when and where they were born?

The way I see it, the "race" issue should not be part of debate, unless "help" was only being offered to a specific racial group.

I am aware that I am an idealist, and that my own nation is guilty of many things, but I am still suprised that the American people do not and have not demanded a national health care system, and before any body raises the issue of how much it would cost: I say the government could just print the money, they seemed only too willing to help out the banks!
Further more I genuinely believe that a Nations only real "asset" is its populace, so its primary purpose should be to protect those people, and their "health" is part of that responsibility.

Alms not Arms!


finally I think that "history" is a double edged sword and is too often wielded maliciously, resulting in "hatred" and prejudice.

contemporary propaganda has evolved to such a degree that its presence is only dimly perceptible, even to the keenest eye. But its effectiveness should not be underestimated: I for example, have an opinion on the issue of "obamacare" and I live thousands of miles away!

I have the exact same sentiment, basic universal health care should be the cornerstone of any society.
Its the decent, compassionate thing to do.
We all get thrust into this world the same way, fortune smiles on some and not on others.
But we all wind up old and decrepit, accidents happen. We will all need medical assistance at some point in our lives, some more than others
Getting that care should not depend on the size of our bank balances.
Are we animals that leave our sick and weak to die where they fall in life, or are we sentients who can see that there by the grace of fortune that could be us, if not today then almost certainly eventually.

As someone who lives under such a compassionate umbrella i can attest to a sense of imeasurable security and stress free existance.
Unless youve lived with this, you have no idea what a huge weight off the mind it is to know you can get the help you need if you need it.
My sister in law had a heart lung transplant this week, which came as a shock to us all. It cost her and us nothing.
The only thing you need to have such surgery here, is the need itself to have such surgery.

Money cant buy the massive intrinsic value inherant in such a situation.

Basic universal health care is the very first check box on the list of what makes a society "exceptional"

Racism..........

Lets look at some of the data

Racism is hardwired into the brain, say scientists - and it operates unconsciously.
The same circuits in the brain that allow us to see which ethnic group a person belongs to overlap with others that drive emotional decisions.
The result is that even right-thinking individuals make unconscious decisions based on a person's race.

Brain scans have proved that interactions with people of other ethnic backgrounds set off reactions that may be completely unknown to our conscious selves.
The finding may force researchers to think about racism in entirely new ways.
It's possible, the researchers say, that even right-thinking, 'egalitarian' people could harbour racist attitudes without knowing.
The chemicals involved in perceiving ethnic backgrounds overlap with those for processing emotion and making decisions, according to new research.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2164844/Racism-hardwired-human-brain--people-racists-knowing-it.html#ixzz2ghA653Sh
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

In recent years a number of studies have reached the same thorny conclusion about human cognition: when encountering a person for the first time, our brains automatically make note of the individual's race. But new research indicates that this is not necessarily the case. Findings reported today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences indicate that even brief exposure to an alternative social world can markedly diminish the extent to which people categorize others by race. The results suggest that racism may be an erasable by-product of cognitive adaptations that evolved to detect coalitions and alliances.
Importantly, the same studies that seemed to suggest that humans have hardwired racist tendencies also indicated that people view each other in terms of sex and age.

Racism Not Hardwired, Scientists Say: Scientific American

Looking at the big picture the US along with the rest of the world has made excellent progress, and continues to do so.
It will take hundreds of years more, but i hold the firm opinion we will get there one day, that our social evolution will overcome any unconcious evolutionary and or social conditioning.

For me the logic is unassailable.

No one asks for the skin they get born into, and from 2 inches behind our eyes we all feel the same

A post biological society wont even understand what the fuss was all about.

Sentience transcends such silly labels

 

[Jeff Davis]

I have the exact same sentiment, basic universal health care should be the cornerstone of any society.
Its the decent, compassionate thing to do.
We all get thrust into this world the same way, fortune smiles on some and not on others.
But we all wind up old and decrepit, accidents happen. We will all need medical assistance at some point in our lives, some more than others
Getting that care should not depend on the size of our bank balances.
Are we animals that leave our sick and weak to die where they fall in life, or are we sentients who can see that there by the grace of fortune that could be us, if not today then almost certainly eventually.

As someone who lives under such a compassionate umbrella i can attest to a sense of imeasurable security and stress free existance.
Unless youve lived with this, you have no idea what a huge weight off the mind it is to know you can get the help you need if you need it.
My sister in law had a heart lung transplant this week, which came as a shock to us all. It cost her and us nothing.
The only thing you need to have such surgery here, is the need itself to have such surgery.

Money cant buy the massive intrinsic value inherant in such a situation.

Basic universal health care is the very first check box on the list of what makes a society "exceptional"

Racism..........

Lets look at some of the data





Racism Not Hardwired, Scientists Say: Scientific American

Looking at the big picture the US along with the rest of the world has made excellent progress, and continues to do so.
It will take hundreds of years more, but i hold the firm opinion we will get there one day, that our social evolution will overcome any unconcious evolutionary and or social conditioning.

For me the logic is unassailable.

No one asks for the skin they get born into, and from 2 inches behind our eyes we all feel the same

A post biological society wont even understand what the fuss was all about.

Sentience transcends such silly labels

Mike,
Great post. There is a myth that those opposing the present Welfare system in the United States that contends we feel no compassion, or that we believe the sick should just be left lying in the street. Was it like that prior to Welfare? No it was not. Compassion is a human condition in which we treat others the way we wish to be treated if we were in the same spot. Do the same morons that perpetuate these myths not know that many of us WERE in the exact same spot?

Compassion has nothing to do with the Welfare system. Understand, that I am most assuredly referring to a FAILED system of pseudo compassion that does nothing but lower more and more people to the same precise level of meager manageability. It takes the steps away and replaces them with a one way elevator down. Can we all look up the word grist? Because that's precisely what you and I are to people like prince Obama, who just 2 weeks ago wanted to MURDER people in Syria in the name of what he BELIEVED to be regal virtue.

Sentience: The ability to recognize one's self. The nature of being subjective. The ability to think, perceive, and feel as only an individual can. Good stuff!

I recognize myself, but I'll be darned if I can recognize the city I grew up in, or the larger city nearby that I hung in as a younger person, due to the way Big Corporate greed and the Welfare Culture has utterly destroyed them. Culture can be a dangerous thing Mike. It's as pervasive as is any aspect of the human social condition. The culture that the Welfare system in this country breeds is as decadent as a society can become prior to it's collapse. You know what farmers do to fields that present themselves as being future sewing profit? They burn them down. Welfare is society's torch.

 

[mike]

Jeff, we hear stories down here (dont know if they are true)
Of US ambulance drivers asking people if they have insurance, and that if they dont they leave them where they lie
Down here they dont ask any questions, they take you to hospital where you are treated.

I know which system i prefer to live in

Nothing is ever black or white, its usually various shades of gray.

A social safety net aka welfare is no different.

A case can be made that a safety net allows those on the tightrope above to be careless, knowing they can fall with no worries.

Not having a safety net forces you to be more careful, a fall is not an option

But the reality is we will fall, its a statistical fact that no matter how careful you are, a stray gust of wind might arrive at the wrong place and the wrong time

And imo its that one small data point that justifys the safety net

 

[mike]

Back to the money aspect interesting article

Eventually, a point is reached where as much accumulated interest is owed as the money being borrowed. So the borrower now has to borrow twice as much from the Central Bank merely to have the same actual currency in circulation as when they started. The Central Bank system only operates as long as the borrower is willing to go deeper and deeper into debt, and debt slavery. This is what makes the Central Bank scheme a pyramid system. It works only so long as ever-larger new generations of borrowers can be found to allow new currency to enter circulation, out of which the interest on the older loans is paid. And of course, by design, the debt can never ever be paid off. Once that first paper note is loaned into circulation, total debt will always exceed total currency. The system is designed that way, to keep you in debt, to keep you a slave to the bankers.

Awaken slaves! - How The Private Central Bank Ponzi Scheme Trapped And Destroyed America | WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

 

[mike]

,

Mike,

Compassion has nothing to do with the Welfare system.

I think its really important not to generalise too much on this matter.
Welfare can be abused, like any system can be abused, managing the checks and balances is part of the process

I contend well fare is directly related to compassion especially in the context of providing health care to those who need it

welfare
O.E. wel faran "condition of being or doing well," from wel (see well (adv.)) + faran "get along" (see fare (v.)).

well

in good health; sound in body and mind

Fare

to go; turn out; happen

Thus compassion can be expressed as to make happen the good health of someone other than yourself

Compassion is the understanding or empathy for the suffering of others. Compassion is the emotion that we feel in response to the suffering of others

When we use the word welfare, to label basic universal health care, we bring all the negative baggage that comes with it, ie the rorting and abuse of a welfare system.
But basic health care isnt easy to rort, you dont fake a broken leg or internal bleeding or cancer, the diagnostic tools to asses that need are dispassionate.

There are always a few cases that prove the exception to the rule, but the benefits of a safety net outweigh such cases.
Better imo to have it and catch the 99 percent who really need it, than not, so's not to get ripped off by the 1 percent who might abuse it

 

[Pygar2]

The topic having wandered far from the TEA Party's courageous refusal to give in to anti-freedom and anti-morality forces, I find little to say that has not already been said. Except that it was the Republicans who pushed through the Civil Rights Act of 1964 while the Democrats were busy blockading schools... and it wasn't a Republican who shot a black man in the back for daring to try and vote, one of the acts that prompted The Battle of Athens.
It's fun to pretend that the racists all magically, and without reason, joined up with their avowed enemies somewhere around 1968- but we're all adults here, aren't we? There is nothing more hateful than creating special laws to discourage an entire class against striving to succeed, like everyone else did who succeeded. And projecting hatred of the poor on the people who would *like* to be able to hire them, is ludicrous. It takes money to hire people- and if you can't hire here, on account of ridiculous taxes and labor laws, the hiring gets done elsewhere. Imagine what the USA would be like today, if, aside from *real* charity to the *really* needy, you worked (or created a job for yourself; every job was created by *someone*) or went hungry until your bout of laziness was past. And yet not so long ago this was the normal state of society...

And finally- since the Republicans *can't* bring the Democrats to the negotiation table, how, exactly, is the lack of action the fault of the GOP?

 

[mike]

From the article i linked above, does this sound familiar ?

Even worse, as the imaginary debt piles higher and there is less and less currency in circulation, people start to become desperate to obtain those pieces of paper with colored ink on them to pay off that debt they have been tricked into believing they owe to the private central bankers. Over time, more and more moral accomodations become accepted by society in exchange for the acquisition of those pieces of paper with ink on them. Manufacturers start cutting corners, producing shoddy products that break and wear out. Food companies start using more cheap fillers. Pharmaceutical companies produce medicines of dubious efficacy and definite harm. Society turns brutal and predates on itself. Manufacturers come to want bad products that break easily so people will buy more. The medical establishment comes to desire a sickly population because they cannot make money off of a healthy people.

Food companies add addictive chemicals to food to make people buy and eat more. Wall Street comes to see fraud as a legitimate business tactic. Eventually immorality and unethical business behavior becomes the accepted social norm. Under the mounting illusion of debt society drifts into outright criminality perpetrated by everyone against everyone. From there it is a short step to seeing war and conquest of other nations' wealth as the only remaining solution to the debt problem. In short, the predations of private central banking lure society into trading what is best in human nature in exchange for those paper and ink tickets until civilization itself is at risk.

Private Central Banking is not about banking, or even about money. It is about Control. Private Central Banking is about rule by enforced servitude to artificially created debt. No different from other hoaxes played by the rich on the poor, such as Rule by Divine Right, or Rule by Chattel Ownership of your Body (slavery). As a human civilization we have outgrown these hoaxes and realize they are illegitimate forms of governance. So too shall it be with Rule by Debt. Those previous systems only worked as long as the subjugated population believed that those systems were real; the way the world was supposed to be. When the people broke free of the slavery of belief, those forms of enslavement collapsed. For the few to feel rich, everyone else must be poor. As the availability of currency declines, it does not matter how hard people are willing to work; there must inevitably be homeless, joblessness, and hunger.

Modern banking is not a science. It is a religion, simply a set of arbitrary rules and assumptions that favor the masters of that belief system, which we are brainwashed in school to think is something tangible and real.

It is time to stop, while we still can.

We have outgrown Rule by Divine Right and recognize slavery as inherently wrong.
Now is the time for the next step in our societies evolution in which the money must serve the people, rather than the people serve the money.

Central Banks are a failed experiment. Look at the devastation of Europe, or your own home town and you will see it.