atomic_annie
Skilled Investigator
You mean Stanton Friedman?
dB
Tiss Stanton, David. Stanton his first name is... not Stanford.
I goofed.
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You mean Stanton Friedman?
dB
Well, perhaps it's not as simple as you think or you oversimplified the question. (Or I overcomplicated it as I tend to do. :redface What is their motivation and where does it stem from to be one or the other?
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Lol, I oversimplified it but was just giving you one example on when the line between trouble-some and benevolent is not so blurred. But it does seem that in most cases, it's very hard for us to discern if the entity is one or the other. And many times, this is where the trickster element comes in because they seem to go back and forth between being naughty and 'nice' so as to cause confusion for the person whom they are in contact with. The greys and other beings in UFO abduction lore are a good example of this only in those cases the continuum seems to run from being cold, dispassionate and aloof one moment to being 'friendly' and even caring the next. So for many abductee's, there's that confusion there where they end up having a love/hate relationship with those beings.
But let me give you an example of what I'm familiar with due to my many years as an EVP experimenter. What we have found is that many people who first attempt to get voices coming into their recordings often times first get a being showing up that we call Mr. Grump or the 'Dirty Old Man' because what we hear on playback sounds like a man with a gruff voice who's having a tourette's syndrome attack using all kinds of profanity that's often times very shocking and embarrassing for those who are hearing it on playback.
As one who has facilitated those who were curious to see if they could get a loved one coming in via evp, I have witnessed the Mr. Grump phenomenon many, many times.
What's interesting about this entity is that it never says its name (but only in the beginning) or anything about itself but it DOES sometimes say very personal things about the person who is recording (the recorder) so as to insult that individual as much as they possibly can. In short, this is NOT what we would call a benevolent being.
EVP recorders who are members of the Spiritualist Church say that the Mr. Grump entity is just a low level entity -- in other words, a human dis-incarnate who dwells on the lower astral levels. They say this because, at least traditionally, the Spiritualist Church teaches that there are no such things as 'demons', there are only low level's/earthbounds.
But for those of us who know better and are not tethered to a religious belief system, we acknowledge the Mr. Grump entitiy as one who is most likely a non-human being of some sort that DOES seem to dwell on those astral planes closest to our own hence why they come in so loud and clear. We do not recognize the Mr. Grump entity as a human dis-incarnate.
But here's the reason why I'm bringing this all up. The person who starts off getting a Mr. Grump coming into their recordings all the time eventually discovers that as time goes by, this entity's personality starts to change from vulgar, belligerent and obnoxious to kind, caring and friendly. For example, if you're a smoker, it will start telling you to "stop smoking" or "smoking is bad for you" ... lol, as if 'it' cares about you! Or it will even say things like 'I love you' completely out of the blue after having just spewed out a string of obscenities to you only moments before!
So the Mr. Grump entity is one example of the quintessential 'Trickster' but there are many others.
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Just thought I would add more information on this Mr. Grump/Dirty Old Man EVP entity. What we have also seen about this entity is that for those who are trying to contact a deceased male member of their family, if they have Mr. Grump coming in, he will eventually, in very clever ways, transform his persona into that male deceased person you are trying to contact. And if you try to verify that this entity is say... your deceased brother, because that's what Mr. Grump is now calling himself as he is now Mr. Grump, the mimicker... he can answer those verification questions because he can read your mind. If you know the answer to the question, he knows it too. But of course, there are female versions of the Mr. Grump entity too but it's the male version that usually comes in first.
Many times when these mimickers come in who call themselves the name of the deceased person you're trying to contact, one will also hear a chorus of voices in the background shouting "He's NOT so and so!!" as if they are all competing with each other to come in and pose as your loved one by putting down and attempting to diminish the credibilty of the mimicker who's currently up at front and is communicating with you directly.
Also, the ones who establish an identity then can jump into one evp experimenter's recordings to the next. So, for example, if Mrs. Jones is in contact via evp with her deceased daughter Mary and you're another evp experimenter who is friends with Mrs. Jones, Mary may show up in your own evp recordings and may start coming into all of your evp sessions.. forever more. So are these spirits really who and what they say they are? In some cases, it's hard to tell, but just knowing that most of them are mimickers tells me to err on the side of caution and admit that most of those beings who come in via evp are not human and never were -- they are the mimickers.
At any rate, back to Mr. Grump... I think it's very sad that those of the Spiritualist faith and those who basically believe the same things they do... will often tell these Mr. Grump entities to "go into the light" treating them as if they are human dis-incarnates who are earthbound because they can't find their way to the light when in actuality the place where they are is the place where they exist. Call it the noosphere or call it Magonia or call it never-never land but don't call it heaven even if they insist that that's where they are in our evp recordings.
...because they seem to go back and forth between being naughty and 'nice'
While some of those seem questionable, others are pretty clear. That's pretty interesting stuff. I wonder how your interaction could affect the discussion in these cases. Personally, I would likely be a bit rude if someone was more trying to hear me but not really listening...
I'm glad you found some of those evp recordings interesting.
But, would you mind rephrasing your questions about interactions and so on? I'm not sure what you are referring to. thanks
Pretty cool idea, but it could be a "careful what you wish" for scenario.
It was more of a pondering rather than a question really. I just mean, seeing as they are obviously sentient and somewhat intelligent... so just like any other being of this nature, they are subject to reactionary behavior. So, if you tried to respond to them differently, could you manipulate the interaction and thus their behavior to some degree? Like, play a trick on the trickster, so to speak?
Hi... will read your most recent post a little later but here's one of my own EVP recordings where I asked my 'Mr. Grump" to repeat back the words:
"I am the Lord Jesus Christ".
I inserted that recording on this page"
http://www.fantasticfrog.net/iamthelordjesuschrist.htm
Oh interesting... I didn't get that you were saying that these entities were following you from location to location. What I mean though, is when dealing with them, just treat them like someone you'd meet on the street. If they speak rudely to you, have at them back. Don't be mystified or overly entranced by the encounter, simply go back at them with whatever is on your mind. Play on words and such to see how you can transform the interaction into something beyond a typical EVP.
That being said, this idea of them reading your mind and following you location to location... it sure lends credence to the idea that you MAY be experiencing some phenomena more akin to somehow picking up something coming from a member of the group (perhaps subconscious thought externalized) rather than a separate entity. I'm not saying that is the case, but it's wholly possible. Perhaps the trickster and the one being tricked is one and the same without one party, or perhaps even both being aware of it. Hmmm..... I think I just blew up my brain. :redface:
So what exactly are we supposed to be hearing in that recording?
dB
But, here we are talking about those entities who come over EVP recordings. They are real entities... not psychological projections.
It often times takes a trained ear to discern what an evp recording is saying. So people though never are able to understand them due to any number of hearing deficits.
This one is very clear for those who are used to listening to evp recordings.
But, and I don't mean this to prove a point or sound argumentative by any means, how can you say that you KNOW this? Is it not just your intuition that tells you this? For instance, if they truly are the trickster, perhaps they are simply tricking you? If it is something unknown inside yourself, there really is no evidence to either disprove or prove this theory just like their really isn't any for any other hypothesis on what exactly is interacting on the recordings. Or is there and I am just not aware of it?
I guess I am too untrained.... :frown:
Though I heard something to the extent of digital noise or music or something along with the echo?
So are you saying that all evp recordings are voices of our deceased loved one's?