Ray Stanford Returns to the Paracast!

[Polterwurst]

It seems pretty obvious these were just game pieces if one reads about the Chunkey game on Wikipedia.

That would be part of my question about the origins of the Chunkey game. Sometimes, games like these had a ritualistic background. So these things originally might not have been "just" game pieces but something with a deeper traditional meaning. Is there any indication for that?

 

[Bergen]

my obvious question is more of a request to the paracast to ask him to go into detail about how he made the chunkey-game - alien connection. It seems from these photos that he cherrypicked those who looked like flying saucers , for example here are some others :

..... and clearly these are not flying saucers.

So questions :

- The connection ? ( besides that SOME look like saucers )
- Couldnt those perticular photos just be artistic in nature , that is , that the owners of those discs just wanted to have the nicest disc ?

 

[Polterwurst]

...which only makes it more fascinating IMO. Why do only some have that peculiar shape? Have those developped out of these simpler discs or was it the other way round? Or are these just regional differences?

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

When I talked to Ray Stanford on the telephone many years ago; he told me about bouncing a laser beam off the surface of a UFO. He was proud because he figured that he was the first person to have ever done that. I had already done that back in 1977, not that it matters. Having him resurface in the media is like going back in time. Funny how things play out.

To set the record straight, Ray's event occurred on December 10th, 1975, a year and a half before your "alleged" event. "Not that it matters." Ray's claim is highly documented as it occurred in front of ten+ witnesses, including three photographers (42 photographs) and conformation of the event was received from Command Post officials at Bergstrom AF Base who witnessed the event on radar, but could not ID the type of craft. What were the circumstances around your laser tagging? What evidence do you have to back up your claim? Who, what, where and when, etc... Inquiring minds would like to know!

 

[Goggs Mackay]

@anyonewhowilllisten!
This whole thing about whether or not artifacts and drawings etc from history depict aliens and/or ufo's is one of the most fascinating parts to the whole ufo mystery. Biblical references aside, it is some of the paintings depicting what look like craft flying in the sky that get my interest going.
I am sure most of us have seen the paintings to which I refer and there are a couple that really stand out. Bearing in mind these were created long before man had any real expectation of building flying machines (and i seperate this from man's wish to fly) you have to wonder what was the inspiration for a painting to include something which looks exactly like a hovering flying saucer, when the rest of the painting was depicting a real place with real people. In one particular piece the saucer (or whatever it is) clearly shows some very coherent straight beam of light coming from the craft down to the ground. It is this addition that really blows me away.
There have been many reports of flying saucers and other shaped crafts and there have also been many reports of said craft directing narrow beams of light on certain objects.
I may be mistaken but during the RAF/USAF Bentwaters case, were there not reports of the craft firing some sort of beam towards where the nuclear weapons storage bunkers were?
The more scientifically informed of you may have noticed I used the word 'coherent' when describing these beams. This is deliberate and it refers to LASER beams. Lasers create highly coherent beams of light and this gives them their power. It also allows the beams to travel great distances without spreading out as a flashlight beam would.
I would have to go research when the painting I am referring to was created but the point is, it was way before anyone had even an inkling about created coherent light beams. Just for someone several hundred years ago to paint an obviously very coherent beam of light is staggering. Any other source of light back then would be nothing of the sort and i imagine that people expected sources of light to spread over distance because this is all the ever saw.
So, not only do we have someone painting a stationary (no wings!) saucer shaped craft hovering over some historical landscape but this very craft is also the source of what can only be described as some sort of laser light, long before any such thing was known about.
For me, and i may be wrong of course, it is almost like corroboration. There is the 'evidence' of the craft -which could be just some artists creation, granted - but also the craft having a form of light source that was also not known then. A very forward-thinking artist, hundreds of years ahead of his time? Or someone depicting an event they saw themselves or heard about from someone who did?
For me, this is as close to a 'historical smoking gun' as I've seen. I have never heard someone else talk about the fact this beam looks like a laser and why that is significant. I may just be ill-informed.
Thoughts ?
gordon.

 

[mike]

Its this one

The, “Annunciation with St. Emidius” (1486)
Artist: Carlo Crivelli (c. 1435 1495 - Italian Renaissance Painter)
Currently displayed at, National Gallery, London

But a bing image search of mary painting ufo will bring up others too

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Yeah, that's not a UFO. That's a representation of God, as that's the moment that Mary is told she would give birth Jesus. Pretty much every "UFO" in a painting is just part of the religious iconography of the time. Ask any art historian.

Angelo
BFA Art History '09

 

[mike]

Yeah, that's not a UFO. That's a representation of God, as that's the moment that Mary is told she would give birth Jesus. Pretty much every "UFO" in a painting is just part of the religious iconography of the time. Ask any art historian.

Angelo
BFA Art History '09

I beg to differ mate, this is a representation of god

Who according to the manual is "in our image" the object in the pic doesnt look like a man, what it is i dont know i cant identify it...............

They are unidentified objects, and nothing more. Really, that's all we know and are able to say with confidence - everything else is speculation. My speculation is that they are misidentified man-made or natural objects or phenomena.

 

[dyingsun]

Wasn't it some sort of Pope or Cardinal head-dress thing that was supposed to be symbolized with these things ? I remember it had to do with the Papacy...Anyhow, I doubt one or for that matter, several middle-age and renaissance painters saw a UFO (who knows) in the sky that took the time for them finishing their painting and be reproduced through the ages.

 

[mike]

I dont find the connection too much of a stretch, after all havent UFO's sometimes been refered to as "Chariots of the Gods"?

Thus i dont find the depiction of such things in that context too strange

 

[Angel of Ioren]

It's common iconography in an Annunciation painting. For example, look at this one by Fra Angelico:

Or this one:

Also, if you want a much clearer picture of the Crivelli work, go to this link:

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/carlo-crivelli-the-annunciation-with-saint-emidius


If you zoom in, you'll see that what you think is a UFO because of a low quality jpeg is actually a cloud with a circle of angels.

 

[tyder001]

I don't know Angelo that ones a little provocative. I can see where both of you have a point. One figure is kind of shielding his eyes (which might indicate angels and brightness) but it's hard to say for sure. I'm no painting expert. But, if I recall you do have some experience with the world of art don't you?

 

[mike]

Excellent link, thank you.

There are a few more here

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

scroll down to ufo's in religious art

examples like this

Are interesting, I suppose it could be co-incidence these shapes appear over and over. But it might also suggest a common model of inspiration

 

[Voyager]

To set the record straight, Ray's event occurred on December 10th, 1975, a year and a half before your "alleged" event. "Not that it matters." Ray's claim is highly documented as it occurred in front of ten+ witnesses, including three photographers (42 photographs) and conformation of the event was received from Command Post officials at Bergstrom AF Base who witnessed the event on radar, but could not ID the type of craft. What were the circumstances around your laser tagging? What evidence do you have to back up your claim? Who, what, where and when, etc... Inquiring minds would like to know!

My impression was that it was a recent event. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody. I could care less what you or anybody else thinks. This isn't about egos, it's about discovery.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Excellent link, thank you.

There are a few more here

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

scroll down to ufo's in religious art

examples like this

Are interesting, I suppose it could be co-incidence these shapes appear over and over. But it might also suggest a common model of inspiration

Thanks for the links.
During my art history degree, I looked at hundreds of religious paintings, and there are some weird things in them for sure. I just don't think any of them have to do with UFOs but that's just me. It's still fun to speculate about it though.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

...This isn't about egos, it's about discovery.

Yup, and Ray's has been experiencing the thrill of discovery since the early to mid 1950s. He is a true pioneer...

 

[Voyager]

As I stated in an earlier post, Project Starlight was a project ahead of its time. It has always been in the back of my mind, what if. What if he would have brought the equipment to Montana. Maybe the arrangement he had with his backers prevented him from bringing anybody else into the project. I don't know.​

 

[Voyager]

To set the record straight, Ray's event occurred on December 10th, 1975, a year and a half before your "alleged" event. "Not that it matters." Ray's claim is highly documented as it occurred in front of ten+ witnesses, including three photographers (42 photographs) and conformation of the event was received from Command Post officials at Bergstrom AF Base who witnessed the event on radar, but could not ID the type of craft. What were the circumstances around your laser tagging? What evidence do you have to back up your claim? Who, what, where and when, etc... Inquiring minds would like to know!

What were the circumstances around your laser tagging? What evidence do you have to back up your claim? Who, what, where and when, etc... Inquiring minds would like to know!

I never claimed Stanford didn't do it. When I talked to Stanford he didn't specify the date of the event. The only witness I have, my cousin, died 2 years ago. "Inquiring minds would like to know." Where did you get that line, from the National Enquirer? You, and the Paracast don't have a large enough audience to interest me. I'm not referring to your radio show. I don't think it would serve any purpose to publish what I am working on in this forum. The pictures I took last summer, graphics, text, etc. I am not being paid for where I will publishing the presentation. I hope that because of the huge amount of visitors the site receives it will open some doors. I'm not doing this for fame, or fortune. My ultimate goal is to gain some insight into what we are dealing with. It was just synchronicity or coincidence that Stanford appeared on the forum. It's water under the bridge. Later!

 

[Polterwurst]

Thanks for the links.
During my art history degree, I looked at hundreds of religious paintings, and there are some weird things in them for sure. I just don't think any of them have to do with UFOs but that's just me.

Agree, thanks for the links. I do think that some of those things depicted in the paintings, just as with some of the Chunkey discoids may yet have quite a lot to do with UFOs, but that's just my opinion of course. That's why I'm asking myself if the game of Chunkey may have had some religious context once that maybe got lost in history. From wikipedia, I only got that it was somehow connected to the figure of the "falcon dancer" but that doesn't tell me much. I hope that Mr Stanford and Chris have some insights there.

I guess it's not too far a stretch to think that unusal objects in the sky may have been seen as religious signs or omens and thus found their way into religious art or religious rituals. Maybe later the original descriptions of the real sightings were forgotten and the depicting became stylized or glorified. I guess even sceptics will have to admit that this thing in the sky over Mary's shoulder is remarkable, especially with the guy looking up to it, which indicates that it might not be just a symbol but a real object.

Oh and: Peace, my brothers in discovery. Sometimes on the internet, things get posted that shoudn't be taken too serious or they may sound offending but weren't really meant that way. Zutch sinks happen says ze Bratgeist.

 

[Voyager]

Agree, thanks for the links. I do think that some of those things depicted in the paintings, as some of the Chunkey discoids may have something to do with UFOs, but that's just my opinion of course. That's why I'm asking myself if the game of Chunkey may have had some religious context once that maybe got lost in history. From wikipedia, I only got that it was somehow connected to the figure of the "falcon dancer" but that doesn't tell me much. I hope that Mr Stanford and Chris have some insights there.

I guess it's not too far a stretch to think that unusal objects in the sky may have been seen as religious signs or omens and thus found their way into religious art or religious rituals. Maybe later the original descriptions of the real sightings were forgotten and the depicting became stylized or glorified. I guess even sceptics will have to admit that this thing in the sky over Mary's shoulder is remarkable, especially with the guy looking up to it, which indicates that it might not be just a symbol but a real object.

Oh and: Peace, my brothers in discovery. Sometimes on the internet, things get posted that shoudn't be taken too serious or they may sound offending but weren't really meant that way. Zutch sinks happens says ze Bratgeist.

I don't you have to worry about that.