Nick Redfern's New Book Sounds Intriguing!

[Trajanus]

I don't think an outright legal theocracy could be imposed here, although I think there are people who'd like to try. A society where both within and outside the government there's discrimination against religious minorities (and the non-religious)? I think we're pretty close to that now.

No I don't think so. In the hierarchy of US values, liberty trumps religion, and the latter is slowly waning as more people abandon faith, or a specific denomination. Look at the grave shortage of catholic priests. As secularization continues fewer people find religion important enough to be worth sacrifices like celibacy.

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And yet, a very small bunch of guys flying aircraft into buildings utterly changed the face of America overnight, and arguably led to such atrocities as the Patriot Act and outrageous surveillance, and created a world dominated by the "age of terror."

When people are faced with a threat - real or manufactured - they turn to government for help, whether it's actually warranted or not. People become sheeple.

Lol, I don't doubt for a second that authoritarianism is possible here. But while religious nuts can create a crisis which brings us closer to authoritarianism, the form it'll take won't be theocracy. We're too secular for such a system.

 

[Kieran]

Crowley, the picture of the Alien he is alleged to have seen back whenever. Why are people saying the picture image is remarkably similar to a Grey, I see no similarities only Crowleys image of the being the skull is very large. In the majority of cases the description of the being is that it looks like an insect or reptile very thin with large black eyes, grey or brown skin. Crowley's Alien to me Looks like a distorted human but the features are distinctly human.

 

[rhcball]

Crowley, the picture of the Alien he is alleged to have seen back whenever. Why are people saying the picture image is remarkably similar to a Grey, I see no similarities only Crowleys image of the being the skull is very large. In the majority of cases the description of the being is that it looks like an insect or reptile very thin with large black eyes, grey or brown skin. Crowley's Alien to me Looks like a distorted human but the features are distinctly human.

I have the same reaction every time I read that comparison (which I must have seen twenty times already). The key feature of the Grey face is the eyes, and Lam's are not at all the same.

 

[trainedobserver]

The key feature of the Grey face is the eyes, and Lam's are not at all the same.

There seems to be a suggestion of the large eyes high up on the forehead with lines that suggest eyebrows above. However, I believe that Crowley was trying to indicate in his drawing that the top of the creature's head is somewhat flat. Whatever the case, it is a product of Crowley's imagination and nothing more, IMHO.

 

[Kieran]

There seems to be a suggestion of the large eyes high up on the forehead with lines that suggest eyebrows above. However, I believe that Crowley was trying to indicate in his drawing that the top of the creature's head is somewhat flat. Whatever the case, it is a product of Crowley's imagination and nothing more, IMHO.

I wouldn't go that far just yet. The Betty and Barney case, the beings were alleged to be human looking almost childlike, large heads and small bodies completely opposite to Whitley Streibers Grey alien. Crowley image is a closer match to what Betty and Barney saw, if that case was a genuine abduction of humans by non human entities.

There a strong hint in Communion the image of the Grey is not real!!

 

[trainedobserver]

There a strong hint in Communion the image of the Grey is not real!!

Is any image of a so-called alien "real?" I don't think we have a good enough reason to think that any "real" photo or drawing exists. Has anyone ever actually drawn or described the same alien twice? Every case has its own "version" of the things. To me, the large variation in description suggests that something else might be going on.

 

[Kieran]

Is any image of a so-called alien "real?" I don't think we have a good enough reason to think that any "real" photo or drawing exists. Has anyone ever actually drawn or described the same alien twice?

There Excellent questions, honestly I can't answer that for one since my opinion would be based on information I have read or heard. We know the majority of people interesting in the UFO topic would pick the "Grey" on the cover of the communion, and are of the believe that image is a true representation of an Alien being. I personally have never seen Aliens in the flesh, a I have seen objects in the sky that I couldn't identify, so nowhere qualified haven't the personal experience to adequately answer your points.

I will say this though members of my family saw creatures non humans (Aliens) it was a experience that isn't experienced all that much by others who have claimed Abductions and no Grey type looking was involved, the creatures they both saw (My uncle and aunt) were stocky and short and wore black cloaks of their heads. My Uncle got a glimpse of one of them he was very wriggly and had black and purple skin. I can vouch for them as being genuine honest people that don't lie, and I believe this was a genuine experience for them. It doesn't really matter if anyone believes me, it will not effect my credibility. I have given an accurate account of this experience previously, so either take it or leave it, and outside my Family this story will not effect you emotionally or physically.

 

[Trajanus]

Is any image of a so-called alien "real?"

Falkville AL perhaps?

....To me, the large variation in description suggests that something else might be going on.

It's a big galaxy and Universe, representing many potential habitats, so considerable variation wouldn't be surprising. Yet despite this variation--from virtually human to octopoids or blobs-- what is really impressive IMO is that the basic grey type (short, large head and big eyes) is so relatively common. That may suggest similar longterm evolutionary outcomes or a standard design for clones or something.

 

[trainedobserver]

...basic grey type (short, large head and big eyes) is so relatively common.

I was talking about people reporting "Greys" specifically. If you really look at them no two accounts draw or describe the "Greys" in the same way really. The things people describe only resemble each other in a general way and often details are contradictory. What does that indicate I wonder?

 

[Trajanus]

I was talking about people reporting "Greys" specifically. If you really look at them no two accounts draw or describe the "Greys" in the same way really. The things people describe only resemble each other in a general way and often details are contradictory. What does that indicate I wonder?

Clone variants? Or differences in the way people perceive them e.g. it's not like they can measure their features. Certain features like eyes may impress some witnesses, who may exaggerate them, or overlook others.

 

[trainedobserver]

Clone variants? Or differences in the way people perceive them e.g. it's not like they can measure their features. Certain features like eyes may impress some witnesses, who may exaggerate them, or overlook others.

I don't know. But review the various abductee and experiencer drawings and descriptions of the greys to see what I'm getting at. If I can find the time I'll try to track down a few examples of what I mean. It extends to how they act and dress (or not) as well. Here is an example of the Allagash variation.

 

[Trajanus]

I don't know. But review the various abductee and experiencer drawings and descriptions of the greys to see what I'm getting at. If I can find the time I'll try to track down a few examples of what I mean. It extends to how they act and dress (or not) as well. Here is an example of the Allagash variation.

IIRC even highly unusual types have been reported more than once e.g. the Kelly KY humanoid type of '55 was seen again in '77. I don't think we should count behavior or dress. Look at all the variation in that among Homo sapiens.

 

[trainedobserver]

I don't think we should count behavior or dress. Look at all the variation in that among Homo sapiens.

While I see your point about "races" within a species, I'm also referring to clothed vs. non-clothed and robotic and stiff as opposed to more personable ones. Also the variation in methods of communication and what is communicated often differ. While all most all encounters are described as telepathic some consist of language and others mental images and symbols.

I'm thinking the "57 different alien" flavor explanation seems unlikely.

 

[Kandinsky]

Although I'm not sold on the idea of 'Greys' just yet, there's certainly a history of smaller humanoids with slightly larger heads that goes back into the 50s. There's a report by Vallee where iirc he argues against ET visitors on the basis that there are too many different types reported (before the Greys franchise). I remember the table with dwarves, shorties and tall 'Nordics.' There were a few, very few really unusual critters, but plenty recognisable humanoids.

The truly unusual one that springs to mind is the Pascagoula critter that sounded like an elephant's trunk with arms.

If that was Vallee's idea, and I'm not misremembering it, I think it could be argued either way about the number of types reported. In particular, Michael Sword's superb reasoning that ETI will inevitably be humanoid matches anything Vallee can suggest.

Certainly, it's hard to 'believe' that there are '57 species' of ET visiting Earth - but if we knew for sure that ET were visiting - it wouldn't be too surprising to find there was a number of types.

 

[trainedobserver]

There's a report by Vallee ...

I think he had a good point. Another way to think of it is, "With such diversity in "visitors" indicating our discovery by multiple civilizations, what are the odds that all of these civilizations would agree to maintain such a low-key covert presence here?" It is very hard to believe such a thing would be agreed upon between them or that such diverse civilizations would evolve such similar methods in dealing with their "discoveries." It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[mrfish]

The system is harassing me to post like some nasty post-menopausal security commissar at LAX - post or its the body scanner for you boy!!!! So I will post....found this site a little while ago and have listened to about 1/2 of the archives...I like the historical context and critical mind of the old dogs hosting...but let me say this...

Gene and David and Chris make a lot of noises like logical positivists and arch 3 dimensional empiricists but every once and a while a bit of spiritualism creeps in - its not a weakness - its your saving grace my friends -

What does he mean? [the old dogs asking]

Its an enlightened thing - if I have to explain you would not understand

There...now stop the machine from harassing me

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Oh yes...I'm waiting for the book...

Danasoft... unnecessary and insidious...this shit should be boiled out of the website and those that use it banned - ca ma va chie

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[dyingsun]

Yeah, thanks for that. Also, did you mean 'chère' or 'chien' , in silver no less ?

 

[mrfish]

Not sure of the controls in the response room...color means nothing in this case...

"chie" is Eastern Ontario/ Western Quebec French patois for "merde"...common in places like Plantagenet Ontario or Masson Quebec [love those early euro place names] to hear this expression on the street... (idiomatic describing exasperation)...literally...."it makes me shit" (same as "pisses me right off")

 

[dyingsun]

Not sure of the controls in the response room...color means nothing in this case...

"chie" is Eastern Ontario/ Western Quebec French patois for "merde"...common in places like Plantagenet Ontario or Masson Quebec [love those early euro place names] to hear this expression on the street... (idiomatic describing exasperation)...literally...."it makes me shit" (same as "pisses me right off")

Ah, thanks for the explaining, never learned that in school, but much appreciated.

Carry on with your cryptic crazy stuff.

 

[mrfish]

posted the rant in the wrong thread...been getting these emails from the Paracast Forum 'observer' to post or be tossed...