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Nick Redfern's New Book Sounds Intriguing!

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Trajanus said:
Of course.



Lol yes, but I just don't believe the government is that deluded or clueless. There's plenty of evidence for a physical-technical phenomenon.
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So much of the story relies on "someone" believing that Crowley, Parsons, and Hubbard were something other than disturbed, immoral, and fantasy-prone individuals who held fringe beliefs that had no basis in reality.




I've seen none of this "evidence." But, o.k.


Fantasy prone? Really? You met em? I understand what you are saying. But, I don't doubt that there are people who have "experiences" that some call fantasy because you have been conditioned to think anything we can't "explain" has to be fantasy. It may well have been. Especially with Hubbard but Crowley? That was a "wierd" dude. Anyway, no real way to know. I wouldn't have bought real estate from em. ::)
 
I think it's possible that we're just going through a slight shift in the UFO field. Possibly it's similar in cause and effect to the contactee movement or early 90s hysteria about Dulce and evil aliens? Maybe 2010 is the year of the demonic UFO story and we'll look back (brain cells permitting) on it in context?

I know there's always been a section of people attracted to the notion, but it seems like between Imbrogno and the Djinn and now the CE it's attracting more consideration/discussion. Even some of the Skinwalker Ranch exploits lend themselves to this theme.

I'm not buying it as an explanation for UFOs. Plasmas, ETH or IDH are more recognisable in the framework of my world view.
 
Trajanus said:
Btw as for holy joe 1 dying on a stake, I'm not buying it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispute_about_Jesus'_execution_method

Note for examplethe view of Justin Martyr, before Constantine.
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Trajanus, Wikipedia that's your source? You should have read the link probably before posting it. Wikipedia is wrong the word "Staua-Rosa" means stake not cross and can be found in the Greek testament as being part of Jesus death.You can't dispute this and if you Don't buy it well you are just denying the true wording of the New Testament that was in Greek and Hebrew.
 
trainedobserver said:
Obviously not. Haven't you read anything about those men? Or read anything that they wrote? Saying they were fantasy prone is a kindness.
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Sorry TO, didn't mean to be a smart ass. :-) But, Crowley really was freaky and yeah I've read a couple of things that were really odd about him. Including the manner of his death. Not saying he was or was not in touch with someting "otherworldly." But, he was certainly "disturbed" and disturbing.
 
trainedobserver said:
Well, I mean its scary on several different levels. Depending on your level of suspension of disbelief while reading it and depending on which scenario you fell is more probably the truth, is a different level of scary.

Possibilities:
1. Counter-intelligence operation. Disinformation.
2. Everything presented to Nick was about a real program. Not taking into account whether their theories are valid or not.
3. etc., etc.

The scary thing about number one is, "How scary does the "truth" have to be to float this kind of horror story?" The scary thing about the second is just this type of thinking by people in government.
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Guys:

My personal view is scenario 2. So as there can be no doubt about my views on the Collins Elite, I don't think we have to look at some extensive disinfo scheme to account for the story. I think it's much simpler.

Government agencies (and the Government as an entity) often throws considerable amounts of money at think-tanks that have alternative ideas and alternative ways of looking at unusual phenomena. As an example, I recently got hold of a bunch of FOIA files from the late 50s showing how the Army had spent (back then) nearly $80,000 researching if dogs could use ESP to find landmines.

So, re the Collins Elite: my view is that they were, and to an extent still are, a think-tank whose views as to what lies at the heart of the UFO mystery were very much driven by belief. It doesn't mean they Govt as a unified entity believes this. Rather, all it means is that there are budgets available to throw at think-tanks who have unusual beliefs - and I think that's all that happened.

For all we know, there might be some other think-tank that thinks it's all the work of time-travelers from the 35th century. But, being in a think-tank and coming to a conclusion doesn't meany they are right.

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------
Nick Redfern said:
Guys:

My personal view is scenario 2. So as there can be no doubt about my views on the Collins Elite, I don't think we have to look at some extensive disinfo scheme to account for the story. I think it's much simpler.

Government agencies (and the Government as an entity) often throws considerable amounts of money at think-tanks that have alternative ideas and alternative ways of looking at unusual phenomena. As an example, I recently got hold of a bunch of FOIA files from the late 50s showing how the Army had spent (back then) nearly $80,000 researching if dogs could use ESP to find landmines.

So, re the Collins Elite: my view is that they were, and to an extent still are, a think-tank whose views as to what lies at the heart of the UFO mystery were very much driven by belief. It doesn't mean they Govt as a unified entity believes this. Rather, all it means is that there are budgets available to throw at think-tanks who have unusual beliefs - and I think that's all that happened.

For all we know, there might be some other think-tank that thinks it's all the work of time-travelers from the 35th century. But, being in a think-tank and coming to a conclusion doesn't meany they are right.
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Sorry! That should have read $8,000 NOT $80,000!

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

There's another theory to account for the "soul harvesting" conclusions of the Collins Elite, which can be found in a new post (today) at my Final Events blog:

http://eventsfinal.blogspot.com/2010/09/nigel-kerner-soul-harvesting.html
 
Nick Redfern said:
Guys:

My personal view is scenario 2. So as there can be no doubt about my views on the Collins Elite, I don't think we have to look at some extensive disinfo scheme to account for the story. I think it's much simpler.

Government agencies (and the Government as an entity) often throws considerable amounts of money at think-tanks that have alternative ideas and alternative ways of looking at unusual phenomena. As an example, I recently got hold of a bunch of FOIA files from the late 50s showing how the Army had spent (back then) nearly $80,000 researching if dogs could use ESP to find landmines.

So, re the Collins Elite: my view is that they were, and to an extent still are, a think-tank whose views as to what lies at the heart of the UFO mystery were very much driven by belief. It doesn't mean they Govt as a unified entity believes this. Rather, all it means is that there are budgets available to throw at think-tanks who have unusual beliefs - and I think that's all that happened.

For all we know, there might be some other think-tank that thinks it's all the work of time-travelers from the 35th century. But, being in a think-tank and coming to a conclusion doesn't meany they are right.

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------




Sorry! That should have read $8,000 NOT $80,000!

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

There's another theory to account for the "soul harvesting" conclusions of the Collins Elite, which can be found in a new post (today) at my Final Events blog:

http://eventsfinal.blogspot.com/2010/09/nigel-kerner-soul-harvesting.html
Click to expand...


Hi Mr Nick Redfern :cool:,
Welcome to Paracast Forum:D and your new book sounds very intresting indeed. How many of the C.E had above top secret clearence and had many served oversees? Do you think this group were part of many so called disinformation think tanks assinged to keep the ufology research chasing there tails?

Peace,
BF
 
blowfish said:
Hi Mr Nick Redfern :cool:,
Welcome to Paracast Forum:D and your new book sounds very intresting indeed. How many of the C.E had above top secret clearence and had many served oversees? Do you think this group were part of many so called disinformation think tanks assinged to keep the ufology research chasing there tails?

Peace,
BF
Click to expand...


BF, To the best of my knowledge, none worked overseas, and (as I relate in the book) I was told there was only ever one non-US employee. As for clearance levels etc, I have no idea, as I suspect I only got the bare bones of the story so far.

No, I don't think they were part of an disinfo program. I just think the simplest conclusion is probably correct: namely, that as the group was largely comprised of christians with a fundamentalist streak in them, they came to a conclusion that mirrored their beliefs that (for many of the group, at least) were in place before they joined the group - that latter point is an important one. In other words, pre-existing belief fueled the demonic theory at an official level. The demonic theory did not fuel belief.

Government budgets provide funding to a lot of think-tanks with alternative viewpoints on things, and I think the CE was one of many such examples of how this was done.
 
I read through the Kindle sample of Nick's book and I intend to get a copy to read the whole thing. The demonic thing may indeed turn out a phase, but if it does, we shouldn't throw out the interdimensional baby with the bath water...
 
Christopher O'Brien said:
Nicks great research into this shadowy government group possibly confirms what I have heard from law enforcement sources about a secret group within the government looking at the occult connection with the paranormal.---COB]
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Chris,

I seem to recall you once stating that there were "some" cattle mutilations where there did seem to be evidence of a magical ritual being involved. I don't remember the specifics but I also seem to recall you throwing out this idea that there was a well-equipped military style unit running around to genuine mutilation sites and performing something along the lines of a banishing ritual. Would you please revisit this idea now and in as much detail as you are up for?

Some of the documents provided to Nick seem to imply that exactly this sort of thing might be going on using "The Parsons Technique" (I'll guess this is some kind of modified Enochian ritual as this was Parsons' primary focus). The Collins Report references another undisclosed document "Entry Points -- And How Do We Keep Them Closed?"

As long as we are all playing along with this concept I think it is apropos to clarify your earlier statements along these lines.
 
Kandinsky said:
I'm not buying it as an explanation for UFOs.
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Welcome to the club.:) I do believe ETs could be dangerous to us, but they're not "demons."

Plasmas, ETH or IDH are more recognisable in the framework of my world view.
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I don't know about plasmas but accept the ETH. The government has blown lots of money on strange research but what's the use of blowing money on a bunch of wackos when there's already plenty of evidence for the ETH or conceivably, EDH?
 
"Only a cretin would think a theocracy could be imposed here."

Looking in the mirror when you wrote that, Trajanus?

I don't think an outright legal theocracy could be imposed here, although I think there are people who'd like to try. A society where both within and outside the government there's discrimination against religious minorities (and the non-religious)? I think we're pretty close to that now.
 
NTS said:
I don't think an outright legal theocracy could be imposed here, although I think there are people who'd like to try. A society where both within and outside the government there's discrimination against religious minorities (and the non-religious)? I think we're pretty close to that now.
Click to expand...

President George Bush Sr., "I don't know that Atheists should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as Citizens."

Seneca (4-65 CE), "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
 
trainedobserver said:
Do you think Parsons and Hubbard misunderstood and misinterpreted Crowley?
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Rather, I think they re-interpreted him and went on their own pathway.

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------
NTS said:
"Only a cretin would think a theocracy could be imposed here."

Looking in the mirror when you wrote that, Trajanus?

I don't think an outright legal theocracy could be imposed here, although I think there are people who'd like to try. A society where both within and outside the government there's discrimination against religious minorities (and the non-religious)? I think we're pretty close to that now.
Click to expand...


"Only a cretin would think a theocracy could be imposed here."

And yet, a very small bunch of guys flying aircraft into buildings utterly changed the face of America overnight, and arguably led to such atrocities as the Patriot Act and outrageous surveillance, and created a world dominated by the "age of terror."

When people are faced with a threat - real or manufactured - they turn to government for help, whether it's actually warranted or not. People become sheeple.
 
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