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MUFON - I took the leap.

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boomerang said:
It's the only game in town. Perhaps better members will result in a better organization.
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This is a secret hope, but I fear the daunting task of trying to change the course of a three-masted ship with a wooden spoon. I'll milk them for what they have to offer, most-likely toss in to become a field investigator, and see what I can take away from it all. In return I'll try to change that course and bring a bit of critical thinking to my local chapter. Who knows, maybe I'll actually see something more compelling than a light in the sky event. :)
 
boomerang said:
It's the only game in town. Perhaps better members will result in a better organization.
Click to expand...
I believe CUFOS and BUFORA are still around. USI had it's 20th anniversary in 2009. The thing with virtually all organizations is a lack of funding, manpower, and substantial evidence. MUFON's advantage is a massive backlog of case files that could theoretically be combed through and moved to a relational database. Some attempts have been made to get that done, but so far as I know, it's still under construction. Apart from that, anyone who is really interested in the subject can find out more than enough without having to pay dues to an organization where the politics seem more important than the cause.
 
Well, I was an hour late for the meeting, yesterday, but it ran over an hour so I guess I got my 'money's' worth. I give the meeting a 2 out of 5 stars. Granted I came in half-way through the state-director's presentation but the other two presentations were about UFOs and the Paranormal. There was no talk of recent cases or events, the direction of the chapter or even MUFON in general. The last presentation was put on by a Dr. someone or other....I can't recall his name, but he'd been studying UFO's and the paranormal for ump-teen years and everybody doted over him and his supposed credentials.

At first I was pretty onboard with his presentation, until it started dragging, lost all logical or reasonable cognitive train and communicative reasoning, and drew the meeting over an hour from it's target time. The coffin slammed shut on the guy, however, when he admitted that his doctorate degree was in music. Music? Seriously? How the f**k does a Ph.d. in music qualify you as being an 'expert' in the field of UFO's or the paranormal? Ugh.

I may bitch more about the meeting on my blog, but suffice it to say I'm going to have to keep my filters and tolerance turned to "high", both.
 
Jeff Crowell said:
Well, I was an hour late for the meeting, yesterday, but it ran over an hour so I guess I got my 'money's' worth. I give the meeting a 2 out of 5 stars. Granted I came in half-way through the state-director's presentation but the other two presentations were about UFOs and the Paranormal. There was no talk of recent cases or events, the direction of the chapter or even MUFON in general. The last presentation was put on by a Dr. someone or other....I can't recall his name, but he'd been studying UFO's and the paranormal for ump-teen years and everybody doted over him and his supposed credentials.

At first I was pretty onboard with his presentation, until it started dragging, lost all logical or reasonable cognitive train and communicative reasoning, and drew the meeting over an hour from it's target time. The coffin slammed shut on the guy, however, when he admitted that his doctorate degree was in music. Music? Seriously? How the f**k does a Ph.d. in music qualify you as being an 'expert' in the field of UFO's or the paranormal?* Ugh.

I may bitch more about the meeting on my blog, but suffice it to say I'm going to have to keep my filters and tolerance turned to "high", both.
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*this reminded me of an incident on the show hells kitchen (see video)

Just to be clear the waiter states correctly that legally the pizza can not be eaten, and the ass hat customer becomes aggressive only to be humiliated by his ignorance and ejected from the restaurant.
one nil to the waiter if you ask me :)
 
Han said:
*this reminded me of an incident on the show hells kitchen (see video)

Just to be clear the waiter states correctly that legally the pizza can not be eaten, and the ass hat customer becomes aggressive only to be humiliated by his ignorance and ejected from the restaurant.
one nil to the waiter if you ask me :)
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So, did the customer with a Ph.D in music end up going back to the kitchen and start making food? And, if he would have, would he loudly proclaim, "I have a doctorate! This makes me qualified to cook in this kitchen!"?

I think my point is this; having a doctorate in something does not qualify you an expert in anything else. In other words, having a doctorate in biology does not impart the same level of knowledge in, say, chemistry. You may understand how chemistry affects biological processes, but you wouldn't logically know how to use chemistry in, say, a manufacturing process. However, even in my example I still used two fields of scientific study (biology and chemistry). Music is a cultural arts field, far removed from most scientific fields (though I'm sure someone would argue mathematics in there, somewhere.)

This emphasizes my point... because this person possessed a doctorate in music, he was granted credibility as being "scientific." That association, in my opinion, is strongly unjustified, unreasonable, and flat out ignorant. As recent times have shown us (Imbrogno), we have to be diligent in vetting researchers and holding the 100% accountable for their backgrounds. Not that I'm saying this guy doesn't have a doctorate in music....what I'm saying instead is that a doctorate in music doesn't make him a good UFO/paranormal researcher......unless he's working for the scientists shown in Close Encounters and he's playing the keyboard at the end.


My 2 cents.
 
Jeff, Guess you have to take a FWIW kind of attitude, at least over the short term. If I could offer talking points to take to future meetings they would stress open sourcing case data and decision making for all members. Sequestration is the "S" word.
 
er um, I am sorry as usual I have made something more complicated than needs be, I will now attempt to clarify:

The reason that I saw a similarity between your dissatisfaction at some one using a qualification in one area, as support for their opinion on another subject, and the video I posted was not actually directly about they fact that both the offenders had "music" degrees.
It was more about the attitude they displayed.

The way I interpret the scenario in the video is this:

The customers after having to wait longer than they felt acceptable, (and probably because they were on TV) decided to order pizza from another establishment to be delivered to them in the "kitchen nightmares" dining room. Upon the arrival of the said pizza, they proceeded to hand it out to other patrons in the dining room. Whilst this may appear to be a minor issue it actually is very serious, because the terms of a licence to sell food and drink are very strict and explicit regarding all aspects of an eating establishment, what the waiter was trying to convey was that it would be illegal for him not to intervene and stop the distribution and consumption of food brought in from a source other than the kitchen mentioned in the licence.
It was with that in mind when the waiter said something like "If only your education matched your voice!" I interpret what he was saying as the following:
Whilst you think that you are educated, your behaviour has demonstrated your ignorance to a point of rudeness, and in this domain (the dining room) you are ill equipped and badly positioned to argue with a proffesional, especially when you obviously lack a basic understanding of the regulations that govern the catering industry.
I understood that you had a similar feeling when some one without relevant qualification was touted as being so.

Hope it makes more sense now :)

finally what equates to relevant qualifications in most fields is fairly obvious, but the "paranormal" is so all encompassing that its not so easy. That said I too would have a problem with the scenario you described.
 
Han said:
er um, I am sorry as usual I have made something more complicated than needs be, I will now attempt to clarify:

The reason that I saw a similarity between your dissatisfaction at some one using a qualification in one area, as support for their opinion on another subject, and the video I posted was not actually directly about they fact that both the offenders had "music" degrees.
It was more about the attitude they displayed.
...

Hope it makes more sense now :)
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No worries, HAN. I was agreeing with you and didn't mean to come across as offended. I was using your post as an opportunity to vent a little but and meant it toward the situation, not toward your post at all.

Han said:
finally what equates to relevant qualifications in most fields is fairly obvious, but the "paranormal" is so all encompassing that its not so easy. That said I too would have a problem with the scenario you described.
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I also 100% agree with this! I've been asked, personally, in the past what it would take to come up with a "degree in paranormal research". The answer is nearly impossible to generate. I mean you could say that it's already been done with parapsychological research conducted through the early to mid 1900's. Or you could argue that such a degree would be a merging, or fabrication of many areas of study, from physics to meteorology to psychology. I can say this, other than an elective, I'm not seeing where 'music' comes into play in that equation.

But again, I digress. The gentleman in question does have extensive history with a known UFO and paranormal research group. If I have a chance to speak with him directly about it, I may stress that he emphasizes this portion of his background and down-play his degree (even if it is a doctorate) in music.
 
Jeff Crowell said:
So...I joined MUFON today, not because of the recent focus on one or two Paracast episodes but because I'm wanting to be more involved in investigations on hands-on research. Yes, MUFON has loads of baggage and they're slipping from the more scientific research into the more whoo-whoo aspects of UFO's, but the way I see it is this; MUFON is the longest standing, most established organization investigating UFO's today. That's not saying too much but what other options are there out there? My only other consideration is to start a UFO group myself and, well, who has the time and money for that?

So, let the mockery begin LOL! but I'm planning on attending the local meeting this weekend and I'm some what excited about it. On that note who else is a member of MUFON or other UFO group, and what has been your experience within?

Peace.

J.
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Jeff Crowell said:
So...I joined MUFON today, not because of the recent focus on one or two Paracast episodes but because I'm wanting to be more involved in investigations on hands-on research. Yes, MUFON has loads of baggage and they're slipping from the more scientific research into the more whoo-whoo aspects of UFO's, but the way I see it is this; MUFON is the longest standing, most established organization investigating UFO's today. That's not saying too much but what other options are there out there? My only other consideration is to start a UFO group myself and, well, who has the time and money for that?

So, let the mockery begin LOL! but I'm planning on attending the local meeting this weekend and I'm some what excited about it. On that note who else is a member of MUFON or other UFO group, and what has been your experience within?

Peace.

J.
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Hi J
ufology said:
Hey, if you feel MUFON ( More UFO Nonsense ) deserves your time and money, it's yours to spend and I hope you find it rewarding. We ( USI ) have had more than one agent on the inside ;). My advice is that in case the day comes that you don't feel MUFON's dues are worth paying, but you still want to come away from it with something of lasting value, have a look at their UFO investigator's course. Though it's a bit pricey, last time I checked it was pretty good, and we honor the credentials here at USI, meaning that if you pass the MUFON program, you may qualify to become a certified field investigator with USI, and get a free USI Filed Investigator ID card that's good for life ( no dues ever ) whether you're still with MUFON or not.

Note that I say "may qualify" because there's at least one MUFON representative who I wouldn't have as a field investigator despite the fact that she's been on the news and even on the Paracast.
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Hi Randal,
I was seriously considering Mufon which is how I stumbled onto this site. After reading your comments, joining USI makes good sense to me. I have already applied for USI membership since I found the link yesterday on this site. Please don't let me fall through the cracks lol
Thanks, George Hale aka CocaCola Cowboy
 
Jeff Crowell said:
No worries, HAN. I was agreeing with you and didn't mean to come across as offended. I was using your post as an opportunity to vent a little but and meant it toward the situation, not toward your post at all.



I also 100% agree with this! I've been asked, personally, in the past what it would take to come up with a "degree in paranormal research". The answer is nearly impossible to generate. I mean you could say that it's already been done with parapsychological research conducted through the early to mid 1900's. Or you could argue that such a degree would be a merging, or fabrication of many areas of study, from physics to meteorology to psychology. I can say this, other than an elective, I'm not seeing where 'music' comes into play in that equation.

But again, I digress. The gentleman in question does have extensive history with a known UFO and paranormal research group. If I have a chance to speak with him directly about it, I may stress that he emphasizes this portion of his background and down-play his degree (even if it is a doctorate) in music.
Click to expand...
As far as a degree in the paranormal goes, who would administer this? The minute after I would that someone like Dr. Greer was involved... The idea would turn into a joke.
 
Jeff Crowell said:
So...I joined MUFON today, not because of the recent focus on one or two Paracast episodes but because I'm wanting to be more involved in investigations on hands-on research. Yes, MUFON has loads of baggage and they're slipping from the more scientific research into the more whoo-whoo aspects of UFO's, but the way I see it is this; MUFON is the longest standing, most established organization investigating UFO's today. That's not saying too much but what other options are there out there? My only other consideration is to start a UFO group myself and, well, who has the time and money for that?

So, let the mockery begin LOL! but I'm planning on attending the local meeting this weekend and I'm some what excited about it. On that note who else is a member of MUFON or other UFO group, and what has been your experience within?

Peace.

J.
Click to expand...

I think you do need to go and see for yourself. Of course, a lot of what you will see is completely silly, even sick, but that comes with the territory.
 
CocaCola Cowboy said:
Hi J

Hi Randal,
I was seriously considering Mufon which is how I stumbled onto this site. After reading your comments, joining USI makes good sense to me. I have already applied for USI membership since I found the link yesterday on this site. Please don't let me fall through the cracks lol
Thanks, George Hale aka CocaCola Cowboy
Click to expand...

It's not clear from USI's website that they do any actual Field Investigation.
 
PCarr said:
It's not clear from USI's website that they do any actual Field Investigation.
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Just joined Mufon today. Now I'm finding sketchy information on the internet about someone named Robert Bigelow and "the Mufon scandal". also "the Reformation of Mufon". Does anyone know if those problems have been corrected, or should I be worried? lol
 
CocaCola Cowboy said:
Just joined Mufon today. Now I'm finding sketchy information on the internet about someone named Robert Bigelow and "the Mufon scandal". also "the Reformation of Mufon". Does anyone know if those problems have been corrected, or should I be worried? lol
Click to expand...

The recent past of MUFON has been somewhat turbulent. I don't believe they any longer have a relationship with Bigelow. Bigelow wanted MUFON to account for the money they were giving them, and MUFON didn't. There are different self-justifying stories, depending upon whom you ask. Seems to me, mistakes were made all around.
 
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PCarr said:
I think you do need to go and see for yourself. Of course, a lot of what you will see is completely silly, even sick, but that comes with the territory.
Click to expand...


have you been a member then paul, and seen for yourself ?, or are you just making another un-supported sweeping statement.
 
I was once a member of my local MUFON, and then a kind of "hangers on" at meetings. I drifted away for a number of reasons, many related to a lack of well proctored and constructive discussions at meetings. The woo factor, and an almost endless recitation of classic but timeworn cases in UFO lore came to drown out any possibility of constructive discussion. I suppose one's individual mileage may vary from group to group.

But the primary reason I lost interest was that I had joined in hopes of doing in-person field investigation. I had made the erroneous assumption that MUFON higher ups would pass along contact information from experiencers in our area, etc. that could then be pursued. This never happened. The one and only case we investigated was a young lady seeing visions of dark robed entities at her door, accompanied by her husband who was legitimately concerned about her frequent use of vision enhancing substances. Case closed.

Perhaps there are MUFON groups out there who run a tighter ship. But without contact info gathered under the aegis of a national "name brand" organization that sane experiencers may call in search of honest answers, fulfillment will always be lacking.
 
i would have 'guessed' local groups etc would have all kinds of youtube type family sightings of lights etc etc, i would imagine p carr's assessment was pretty close, but it would be a guess, and just my opinion, same as him.

how long did you stay a member for boomerang, and are the people now at the top of the food chain in the organisation, just in it for the money, whats your opinion please.
 
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