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Mossad did 9/11. Period.

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Well I was misinformed then. There have been steel framed buildings which have collapsed due to fire. I stand corrected.
 
And be clear, dogma is all it is. Even Richard Gage (an architect and one of the foremost Truthers) admits that the notion that towers fell at free fall speed is just plain wrong (as if the video evidence and simple logical test I proposed is not enough). And yet here among the lower level thinkers of that group it gets repeated over and over again.

Near free fall is more accurate. NIST even admits WTC 7 fell at free fall speed for the first part of its collapse. The only way for any of them to fall at total free fall would be in a vacuum with no resistance. These building ALL had wind resistance and a whole LOT of building underneath them. They fell INTO the path of MOST resistance.
 
I had read it countless places and seen it in numerous videos. I had reached a saturation point sometime ago on this subject. It still does not squelch the notion in my mind that the events of that day deserve a more through and complete official investigation. This may be my religious belief about it sticking and I acknowledge that possibility. So you see ... I am skeptical about my own beliefs.
 
I see the primary skeptic here on 9/11 has made no attempt to look up/bring up some of the info I shared. :D

Serious question. If you in your mind KNOW that you are just fighting with people that YOU KNOW are wrong then why are you wasting your time? You have looked at this info and made your mind up, as they have as well.

Why not look at other areas of the event then that you are not informed about then? Why stick to keep on fighting in this manner? Nobody is going to change their minds it seems.

I'll tell you what, I'll bring up one of people I threw out there to start an actual conversation. I was hoping you or someone else would do this yourselves, but thus far that has not happened.

Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer was following several of the 9/11 hijackers while he worked for the Pentagon in LIWA and SOCOM. The hijcakers were being tracked in an operation called ABLE DANGER. He was tracking Mohammed Atta. He was stopped repeatedly from acting on the intel or sharing the intel with the FBI by the DIA. Information that would have STOPPED the 9/11 attacks. His info was shared to the 9/11 Commission Panel and not deemed "important" enough for the final report. Lt. Col. Shaffer questions the reasons why (beyond "red tape" and incompetence) and calls for a new investigation to the 9/11 events. He is not a poltical activist that has something to sell and is still active duty in reserves. Why and who exactly stopped men like Lt. Col. Shaffer from stopping 9/11?
 
One is that their whole story depends upon the Fire department being part of the conspiracy and that besmirches the memory of the hundreds of firefighters who died (and their families). That offends me.
I have NEVER read this anywhere.

Lance in order to save time please ask me 3 questions, including the one I missed, then I will ask you 3 questions.
 
I have NEVER read this anywhere.

Lance in order to save time please ask me 3 questions, including the one I missed, then I will ask you 3 questions.

I agree. I have never read or heard anything about anyone claiming any fire departments collusion myself. Certainly if they were "in on it" they wouldn't have stormed up the stairwells to their deaths.
 
As an example, a toy factory in Thailand, Two large department store fires in Athens, Greece, and the Sight and Sound Theater in Lancaster County, Pa and many others collapsed due to fire.
Lance do you have references? I know the theatre was not a tall building and can hardly compare.
 
Cotton,

Does the above exchange with Trainedobserver tell you nothing? As a skeptic, I try to promote critical thinking because I think people's minds are full of enough empty magic (and 9/11 was directly because of that kind of thinking) I think the incorrect info spread by the Truthers should be countered for many reasons. One is that their whole story depends upon the Fire department being part of the conspiracy and that besmirches the memory of the hundreds of firefighters who died (and their families). That offends me.

I also just don't like loud stupidity.

I did look at some of your names and I am not here to discuss whether or not the Administration could have done more to prevent 9/11. It is clear that they could have. But those kinds of arguments are not what I am interested in for my part of this thread---I just want to expose the lies that can be definitively revealed as such (like that no steel buildings have ever collapsed, for instance). I am not saying that your points are not worth discussing. I just think that I don't know enough about them, and they are hard to pin down anyway.

P.S. As we see above, that PixelSmith still doesn't answer the one question I posed to him or her.

Lance

The thing is those people are calling for a new investigation of 9/11. So are the people are debating over the physical events in the buildings. It's semantics when you break it down. Also, the problem is those people are suggesting that there is more to the events then simply not doing enough to stop it. It's more important then fighting with the same people over the same points over and over again IMO.
 
16 years as a construction foreman, I can read a blueprint. I had to in order to do my job.

Interestingly, the WTC "investigators" were not allowed access to blueprints.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------

Care to share your architectural/engineering credentials pixelsmith?

Care to share yours?
 
Speaking of FEMA (Tripod-2) what are your views of the various wargames and drills going on the day of 9/11/01?
 
Actually many "investigators" were volunteers and there was only $600,000 available for an investigation. They lacked subpoena power, they were barred from ground zero, they were only allowed to view a few pieces of scrap in OCTOBER, and they had to GUESS where the pieces came from. You being an expert I thought you would know stuff like that.
Being the 3 largest engineering failures in the history of the world, I think a little more investigating is the proper thing to do. I think they spent more on Clinton's blow job.

---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------

Speaking of FEMA (Tripod-2) what are your views of the various wargames and drills going on the day of 9/11/01?

Yes, interesting to note that FEMA was there on 9/10... hmm. Interesting that Marvin Bush was involved with security until 9/10... hmm...

Marvin Bush was involved in some ENRON -transactions, together with his brother Neil. He was a principal at Securacom, now named Stratesec, Inc., a company that provided security at the World Trade Center, Washington D.C.'s Dulles International Airport and United Airlines between 1995 and 2001. Securacom was backed by a private Kuwaiti-American investment firm whose records were not open to full public disclosure.

BTW- I wonder what was in WTC 7?

Building 7's short list of tenants consisted entirely of government and financial institutions.

Financial institutions
Salomon Smith Barney (SSB)
Standard Chartered Bank
Federal Home Loan Bank of New York
First State Management Group
TT Hartford Insurance Group
American Express Bank International
National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC)
Government agencies
Equal Opportunity Commission (EEOC)

Internal Revenue Service (IRS)
Department of Defense (DOD)
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
Office of Emergency Management (OEM)
US Secret Service
Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)

The collapse of Building 7 destroyed thousands of SEC casefiles of ongoing investigations into companies such as WorldCom.

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------

23rd floor of building 7 was a bunker housing Giuliani's Emergency Command Center. It had:

• bullet- and bomb-resistant windows
• an independent, secure air and water supply
• the ability to withstand winds of 160 MPH
• an unobstructed view of entire height of both towers

Command center was built in 1998, in response to 1993 bombing.
• It was designed to respond to terrorist attack.
• Yet on 9/11/01 it was supposedly abandoned.
• Giuliani did not go to Building 7 that morning.
• Instead, he went to makeshift headquarters on Barkley St.
• He told ABC's Peter Jennings on 9/11/01 he received advance notice of the impending collapses:
We were operating out of [the makeshift headquarters] when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse, and it did collapse before we could get out of the building.

Unfortunately the nearly 400 firefighters who were killed by the unexpected collapses did not have the benefit of this knowledge.

---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

Speaking of FEMA (Tripod-2) what are your views of the various wargames and drills going on the day of 9/11/01?

You mean like the ones being conducted on 7/7 during the London bombings? Those are just coincidences. LMAO.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------

And as far as me repeating my question to him, I ask how hard it is to scroll up the page a bit?
I have no problem answering your question. In fact if you notice, I asked for 2 more to go with it. BUT you will have to answer 3 of my questions.
 
Lance, you have the perfect right to ask questions, but the phrase "mentally challenged" is going a bit too far! Please avoid that sort of rhetoric. I don't want to shut the bottle again. Pixelsmith: Same request. Disagree if you wish, but be careful of the superfluous adjectives. Thanks.
 
Once again I present evidence that Pixelsmith was just plain wrong (as is most of the stuff in this latest post) and he changes the topic without addressing it. How embarrassing. Can anyone else step up and tell me how this is being honest or truthful? I see only disingenuousness in this kind of response.
What are you talking about? I simply asked you to present your original question along with 2 more in order to speed this dialogue along. I saw no evidence from you supporting anything to do with the events on 9/11.

---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 AM ----------

Lance, you have the perfect right to ask questions, but the phrase "mentally challenged" is going a bit too far! Please avoid that sort of rhetoric. I don't want to shut the bottle again. Pixelsmith: Same request. Disagree if you wish, but be careful of the superfluous adjectives. Thanks.

Will do Gene. THANK YOU for not locking this thread. I have TONS more to contribute.
 
Re-post sort of:

Tell me how a passport can emerge unscathed from plane fuel fires, and the annihilation of two very large iron and concrete structures in which everything else was turned to dust ... and I may think that the government (run by GEORGE W BUSH) was right.

Nope ... still waiting ... :cool:
 
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