More Serious UFO Reporting

[Atticus11]

Troll much, Atticus11 ? It's God-king of Shambalah the Golden, by the way, but thanks for showing us how long you've been with us, one without name.

Asking Pixelsmith if he saw his UFO on a Wednesday or Saturday is trolling to you?

Or was it where I said ufology (the commenter) was ridiculous for refusing to release his proof of the age of Courant's pilot license unless I correctly answered a riddle first?

Either way that seems ... odd. Then again, I guess we're dealing with an odd subject, High Strangeness and what not ...

 

[Atticus11]

Two possibilities exist in my mind. Either people are culturally conditioned to experience certain phenomena as alien entities messing with them, or the US did a deal with an ET race that gave that race 'permission' to conduct experiments on a number of citizens.

That's an excellent and fascinating point.

It seems, purely from observation of the most grandiose "abductees" (perhaps there are statistics that say otherwise), that they are basically all white.

Until recently Britain was fairly homogenous and still much more so than the U.S. I think Dr. Newitz' theory that alien abduction is a psychological fear of "white extinction" seems like the most probable explanation -->

This is why I think the alien abduction narrative, whatever its 'real' origin, can be understood as a cautionary racial fable for our multicultural times. I have already suggested that the aliens, in the alien abduction narrative, resemble white people in a multiculturalist 'revisionist account' of the imperialist narrative. But the aliens are 'invisible' — the abductees barely remember them; members of the government and scientific experts refuse to acknowledge that they exist at all. Official policies on extraterrestrials hold that when they come, they'll give us fair warning and essentially try to befriend us. I would suggest that the alien abduction story, real or imagined, clues us in to the fact that most people on Earth aren't really convinced by the 'official' position of multiculturalism. The multicultural position goes something like this: when the non-whites finally come into their own, they will not be ruthless colonizers like white people were. But the alien abduction story teaches us that what we fear most is that white people are not the only people or beings who might try to take over and rule the world.

Many ufologists seem to have extremist right-wing political views; I wonder if this correlates to the white extinction fear or what tellers of the abduction fable think, in terms of their own politics? Of course, there are some notable exceptions to the above (i.e. Whitley Streiber) and I'm not suggesting people on the right are more prone to charlatanism than those on the left, only that they may be activating on a suppressed fear of a very small number of people on the right, where that fear exists in smaller doses on the left (replaced by other irrational fears). In that sense, there may be as many UFO charlatans on the left, but we don't hear about them as much as they never develop appreciable audiences in the cottage industry of Ufology-for-Pay.

 

[Randall]

Back To Serious UFO Reporting

Recently the rationale has surfaced in a number of places that the use of the word "alien" and the term UFO should not be used when making appeals to governments and officialdom because of the so-called baggage that these words carry, specifically that they are associated with UFO nuts and charlatans who are less interested in the truth than in their own personal business interests, which have been deemed less than admirable.

There are several things wrong with the above rationale The first is that substantiating one's reasoning by invoking imagery of a mass of frothing UFO nuts is sensationalist and misleading. In actual fact most of the progress ufologists have made to date has been as a direct result of lobbying government officials and making NARA and FOIA requests that specifically relate to UFOs. The word UFO was also created as an official term by the USAF and was used for decades in official correspondence. It has also been the subject of both popular and scientific research by respectable people within governmental agencies. So make no mistake, the government knows exactly what's being talked about when we use the word UFO. In fact, based on its official history and familiarity it's the most logical word to use when discussing the subject with anyone, especially government.

Portrayals of crazy UFO people is nothing less than the same type of stereotyping we see from the JREF and CSI ( formerly CSICOP ). It's a red herring designed to bring disrepute to the field as a whole and boost the credibility of a few at the expense of the rest of us. We're not all like the UFO nut scene in Sagan's movie Contact. But most importantly we're not interested in UAPs. We're interested in the truth regarding alien visitation. By making that idea seem crazy when it's not, we're setting ufology back decades to when they put people in institutions for believing in it. Not only would this be tragic, how can we expect to get any closer to answering the real question by distancing ourselves from it? Abandoning it now simply because of fringe ufology culture is completely irresponsible.

Lastly, take a minute to think about this problem independently instead of blindly accepting the premise posited by these UFO celebrities.These people depend on revenue from book sales and lectures that are promoted by media interviews. If they become the focus of the media "giggle factor", then down go their book sales interviews and lecture attendance. This is a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to the "business of UFOs" and it has an enormously divisive effect on the field as a whole. If anyone actually cares about more serious UFO reporting then this issue could take the whole field down unless an effort is made to fix it.

 

[pixelsmith]

What time of day/day of week did this happen, what airport did you call and what is the control tower's phone number you used?

look it up yourself, i filed a report.

 

[Atticus11]

look it up yourself, i filed a report.

I'd be happy to; can you answer my questions so I can look it up? Once again -

What time of day/day of week did this happen, what airport did you call and what is the control tower's phone number you used?

Second request.

 

[Atticus11]

We're interested in the truth regarding alien visitation.

Incorrect. You are interested in confirming that alien visitation happens. This is different than a person interested in "the truth." A person interested in "the truth" is interested in confirming whether or not alien visitation happens.

Your refusal - over 6 pages of this thread - to do a free, 3-minute FAA database check on Jim Courant's flight license shows that you are not interested in "the truth."

 

[pixelsmith]

I'd be happy to; can you answer my questions so I can look it up? Once again -

What time of day/day of week did this happen, what airport did you call and what is the control tower's phone number you used?

Second request.

find it in the forum, i am too busy to bother with you.

 

[mike]

That's an excellent and fascinating point.

It seems, purely from observation of the most grandiose "abductees" (perhaps there are statistics that say otherwise), that they are basically all white.

That topic has been done here already, and i wont bother to dig up the contrary data.

But your assertion that they are basically all white is wrong

There are accounts from china and india just to cite two examples

But lets say for the sake of argument Abductions are just sleep paralysis

''I think it can explain claims of witchcraft and alien abduction,'' said Kazuhiko Fukuda, a psychologist at Fukushima University in Japan and a leading expert on sleep paralysis. Research in Japan has had a headstart because sleep paralysis is well-known to most Japanese, who call it kanashibari, while it is little-known and less studied in the West.
''We have a framework for it, but in North America there's no concept for people to understand what has happened to them,'' Professor Fukuda said. ''So if Americans have the experience and if they have heard of alien abductions, then they may think, 'Aha, it's alien abduction!' ''
Sleep paralysis was once thought to be very rare. But recent studies in Canada, Japan, China and the United States have suggested that it may strike at least 40 percent or 50 percent of all people at least once, and a study in Newfoundland, Canada, found that more than 60 percent had experienced it.
There, as in Japan, people have a name for the condition and some scholars believe that people are therefore more likely to identify it when it happens to them. In Newfoundland, it is called ''old hag'' because it is associated with visions of an old witch sitting on the chest of a paralyzed sleeper, sometimes throttling the neck with her hands.
Sleep paralysis seems to have been described since ancient times, and an episode appears in ''Moby Dick'' and perhaps also in the 18th century Henry Fuseli painting, ''The Nightmare,'' which shows a goblin sitting on the stomach of a sleeping woman. What is striking is that although the symptoms of sleep paralysis are generally very similar, the images in the hallucinations and the interpretation of them seem to vary.
Europeans seem to have interpreted ancient sleep paralysis as assaults or abductions by witches taking them off for a forcible ride on a broomstick. Chinese called it ''gui ya,'' or ghost pressure, and believed that a ghost sat on and assaulted sleepers.
In the West Indies, sleep paralysis was called ''kokma'' and meant a ghost baby who jumped on the sleeper's chest and attacked the throat. In old Japan, it sometimes seems to have been interpreted as a giant devil whose foot came down on the sleeper's chest.

As you can see its a global, interracial phenomena.

That aside there are abduction accounts from south america, china, india, even japans first lady claims to have been abducted

What's your racial background?
Asian 4% Bi-Racial 12%
African 16%
Caucasian 25%
Hispanic 9%
Native American 20%
East Indian 1%
Middle Eastern 2%
No Response 9%

Abduction Data on MAAR

The suggestion they are basically all white is ignorant nonsense.

Now i cant speak to the truth of ANY of the claims, but i can refute yours

 

[Atticus11]

find it in the forum, i am too busy to bother with you.

LOL! Of course ... for the record, that's pretty much the answer I was expecting. Not because I'm psychic, but because it's pretty much always the same thing - "I HAVE PROOF - SO THERE! But, in the unlikely event you ask me to see it, I will be unable to show it to you for one of the following reasons: the Government Wiped the Data / I'm too Busy Right Now / this Occurred in a Parallel Dimension / I am a Lightseeker Operating on a Higher Vibrational Frequency and Can't Be Bothered with Your Naysaying / My Dog Ate the Proof."

 

[Atticus11]

Abduction Data on MAAR

Well that showed me! How could I not trust data compiled by "Colleen and Steve" from the University of ... er, I mean, from the "Maelevolent Alien Abduction Research Company." I so wish they sold t-shirts, I would pay good money for one of those!

They really need to give this thread its own late-night show. The last two pages or so have been pure comedy gold! I've literally been non-stop LOL'ing with each post!

 

[Wade]

Then you should end up splitting your sides on this one. I don't have any names to toss out just some observations but it pretty much touched on what Mike offers and in regards to what you posted quoting annalee lewitz.

Even though I haven’t read much of annalee’s body of work I am familiar with her background and she seems to see much of the world through a prism of race, class and ethnicity. It permeates her work and it even defines herself. I think her review of avatar…which I read after the movie’s release was dead on but even a dope such as myself could see the forest for the trees on this example but I also think she could make a race and class issue over an oreo cookie. She could be on to something but like chris has mention we tend to bring our own cultural bias and imprint it on just about any subject, even a probably psychosis which Alien Abduction probably stems from, a PhD doesn’t give you immunity from doing so. Just more clout when it comes to a making a diagnosis.

I would say that the alien abduction syndrome merely results from the very human fear of vulnerability in one’s bed when one is quite defenseless. Furthermore the syndrome is been around for ages in many cultures under different guises and intents. I see no reason to distinguish North American /western culture based alien greys from demons coming to take your soul in the middle ages and even today in many African tribes , to the little people of Ireland coming to take your newborn and switching it out to stories of incubui and sucubi (spelling?) coming to take our cherries. It seems all these guys want something from us and love to come when our guards are down. All these events are based on something being taken from us and taking advantage of our vulnerability. I’d say the phenomena is more culture based then staus based. What if Whitley’s book Communion had featured Bigfoot in a checkered shirt would that be the meme that would be rousting us not so gently at 3 in the morning?

 

[Atticus11]

Then you should end up splitting your sides on this one. I don't have any names to toss out just some observations but it pretty much touched on what Mike offers and in regards to what you posted quoting annalee lewitz.

Even though I haven’t read much of annalee’s body of work I am familiar with her background and she seems to see much of the world through a prism of race, class and ethnicity. It permeates her work and it even defines herself. I think her review of avatar…which I read after the movie’s release was dead on but even a dope such as myself could see the forest for the trees on this example but I also think she could make a race and class issue over an oreo cookie. She could be on to something but like chris has mention we tend to bring our own cultural bias and imprint it on just about any subject, even a probably psychosis which Alien Abduction probably stems from, a PhD doesn’t give you immunity from doing so. Just more clout when it comes to a making a diagnosis.

I would say that the alien abduction syndrome merely results from the very human fear of vulnerability in one’s bed when one is quite defenseless. Furthermore the syndrome is been around for ages in many cultures under different guises and intents. I see no reason to distinguish North American /western culture based alien greys from demons coming to take your soul in the middle ages and even today in many African tribes , to the little people of Ireland coming to take your newborn and switching it out to stories of incubui and sucubi (spelling?) coming to take our cherries. It seems all these guys want something from us and love to come when our guards are down. All these events are based on something being taken from us and taking advantage of our vulnerability. I’d say the phenomena is more culture based then staus based. What if Whitley’s book Communion had featured Bigfoot in a checkered shirt would that be the meme that would be rousting us not so gently at 3 in the morning?

all excellent and valid points

 

[Stagger Lee]

Atticus,
While you dismiss this entire phenom with a broad stroke of a brush, the fact remains that you are here and obviously plugged into all things ongoing in the land of ufology. You claim your interest is purely for comedic relief, and the hope of pulling one from the depts of darkness and fantasy- a place you claim to have once occupied. We may never know what avenues or outlets you found yourself in, before your own realization- perhaps it was one of Greer's expensive flashlight tours..but I believe you still have more than a passive interest. Jaded with a bit of a grudge, but here you are.

 

[pixelsmith]

LOL! Of course ... for the record, that's pretty much the answer I was expecting. Not because I'm psychic, but because it's pretty much always the same thing - "I HAVE PROOF - SO THERE! But, in the unlikely event you ask me to see it, I will be unable to show it to you for one of the following reasons: the Government Wiped the Data / I'm too Busy Right Now / this Occurred in a Parallel Dimension / I am a Lightseeker Operating on a Higher Vibrational Frequency and Can't Be Bothered with Your Naysaying / My Dog Ate the Proof."

Some of us do not live in our parents basement and actually contribute to society by working, I have 2 jobs and am in the middle of organizing a 2 day blues festival coming up in less than a month. I have posted my account in detail with maps and diagrams. Get off your lazy ass and find them. I do not have to prove anything to you. I know what I saw. If you are close to Rochester MN I would gladly meet you in person and we can discuss this further.
I think I hear your mommy calling.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Atticus11 - you are not a good skeptic... You're just making yourself look like a dick.

You need to watch this:

 

[pixelsmith]

atticus is a perfect example of why some mothers eat their young.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

@Angelo - I think even Lance might admit he could be 'less of a dick' and benefit from the video too.

I'm not sure I understand the skeptical viewpoint regarding UFOs - surely no-one denies there are objects in the sky that are unidentified? I know the UFO/UAP debate etc and certainly 'flying saucers' is way to loaded a term, but I'm not sure still if there are skeptics who would argue there is nothing mysterious in the sky? And I mean is the viewpoint that it is just a lack of information that leaves some objects unexplained - surely all would agree that no, there are some objects for which there is no current data to lack? What do skeptics think Bluebook was about or GEIPAN or any number of bodies set up to investigate UFOs?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

@Angelo - I think even Lance might admit he could be 'less of a dick' and benefit from the video too.

I'm not sure I understand the skeptical viewpoint regarding UFOs - surely no-one denies there are objects in the sky that are unidentified? I know the UFO/UAP debate etc and certainly 'flying saucers' is way to loaded a term, but I'm not sure still if there are skeptics who would argue there is nothing mysterious in the sky? And I mean is the viewpoint that it is just a lack of information that leaves some objects unexplained - surely all would agree that no, there are some objects for which there is no current data to lack? What do skeptics think Bluebook was about or GEIPAN or any number of bodies set up to investigate UFOs?

Basically, it comes down to what they are. Skeptics such as myself prefer to leave it unexplained than presume it is alien in nature. As much as ufologists would want us to think otherwise, there really isn't any substantial hard evidence for UFOs being anything other than something unidentified.
Bluebook, etc: they were set up to figure out what people were seeing and nothing really conclusive came of it. No one will deny that people have seen things - the debate really happens when people start speculating about what they are. We really have no way of saying anything definitive. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Lastly, take a minute to think about this problem independently instead of blindly accepting the premise posited by these UFO celebrities.These people depend on revenue from book sales and lectures that are promoted by media interviews. If they become the focus of the media "giggle factor", then down go their book sales interviews and lecture attendance. This is a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to the "business of UFOs" and it has an enormously divisive effect on the field as a whole. If anyone actually cares about more serious UFO reporting then this issue could take the whole field down unless an effort is made to fix it.

Says the guy with a link to his UFO book store in his signature...

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I agree that that is reasonable skepticism. I suppose I only find it unreasonable when people dismiss the whole UFO topic as silly nonsense. Being very cautious about the subject in the absence of conclusive data is fair enough. My own thoughts are that some UFOs are solid objects not made by man, but beyond that into who made or fly's them, I'm happy to wait for further evidence before clinging to one theory.