March 27th show 2011

[Christopher O'Brien]

His 'expertise' is supposedly in underground bases, but strangely enough the show barely touched the subject! It was all ramblings on Roswell and mind control and I don't know what else --contradicting Chris when he pointed out that DMT is the active ingredient in ayahuasca might be seen as something that casts doubt on the way he does research.(

Also, when I mentioned the company involved in the patent process of the nuclear tunneler was located in the town where I attended high-school--he off-handedly dismissed the factoid. I'm looking for the copy of the patent I have -- I could have sworn it was from a Kent, WA company. If not, he spanked me good!

 

[Double Nought Spy]

The cell phone interference didn't bother me as much as the tortured screams of my own dying brain cells. After I put on a tinfoil hat, it was a lot better. I'm about to go for the booze, but it's almost over.

Yikes! For all the bluster, I didn't hear anything new. I don't have multiple university degrees either.

You can get most of that stuff by watching Men In Black and/or Matrix (any and all) and be a lot less irritated.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

He was actually using a mic with a Skype connection. So unless his computer was getting interference from something (most likely), it wouldn't necessarily be a cell phone or portable phone. Or his router and computers are junk and vulnerable to stray RF.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Hmmm. Sounded exactly like the noise I get out of my computer speakers when my cell phone is too close. Maybe I should pay attention to what I'm looking at or whatever when it goes off. The ayahuasca might be trying to emphasize something or other.

 

[Capnkumquat]

We gave Sauder a chance to demonstrate what he had. He was pressed on the critical issues, and I think he came up wanting. I suppose we could revert to the "old ways" and talk about him in absentia, after the interview was over. But that's hardly a scientific approach. You can take what he says in any way you wish. We don't have to preach to you.

Gene,

I think you guys did an admirable job in questioning him. Drilling him on how he "knows" what he "knows"...he just wasn't going to say. To be honest, there were points in the conversation, I wish you had just started interviewing Chris. I may not agree with every word that comes out of Chris' mouth, but at least he can explain why he thinks what he thinks...and be damn interesting about it too.

Sauder wanted to be treated as if he, and ONLY HE could uncover super secret stuff about the government, UFO's, and the nature of the universe in general. To hear him talk, no one without a PHD could use a library, and anyone who has not taken iowaska couldn't understand it, even if they found it. What a self important blowhard. Whatever his research credentials, he didn't impress during the interview.

Ps. iowaska is not a drug? The lies we tell ourselves so we can appear to be "above it all"

---------- Post added at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

Also, when I mentioned the company involved in the patent process of the nuclear tunneler was located in the town where I attended high-school--he off-handedly dismissed the factoid. I'm looking for the copy of the patent I have -- I could have sworn it was from a Kent, WA company. If not, he spanked me good!

Chis,
When he swatted you like that, I let off a stream of expletives that would have made a sailor blush with shame!

Well, at least you know, I gave him a piece of my mind...and I'm pretty sure he heard it too since he was still buzzing from all the iowaska. Somewhere, on the astral plane, I'm giving his essence a real kick in the arse!

 

[dad2059]

Exactly, anyone looking for proof in a podcast, has a long waiting time ahead.
Yes he was a bit strange sounding,Yes he was very self assertive strong willed. I dont believe the 911 conspiracy or drug stuff either, but as to proof im not looking for any in a podcast, im looking for out of the box ideas, and he had plenty of those.

You dont have to (should never) swallow what anyone says hook line and sinker, but its good to allow your mind to be teased with new ideas, concepts and possibilitys.
I for example agree a machine intellect/s could be part of the picture.
Biological intellect is the entirety of our local model of reality, but i think that the two can and likely do co-exist in the greater reality.
I dont agree with his conclusions that we are being enslaved by one, though it may well be part of the natural order we eventually be absorbed by one, if its not done for us, we may well do it ourselves



We are already using technology to bypass our biological limitations, wether its using a horse or a supersonic jet for transport, bypassing our biological limitations seems to be a built in drive.

For me podcasts are not about proof, they are about teasing us into thinking about the enigma in new ways

If we take the concept of a Technological Singularity as a given, the idea of an all encompassing machine/biological AI that exists in multiple dimensions and can communicate with itself backward and forward in time isn't a stretch at all, in fact it could very well be the natural progression of Intelligence.

Sauder does try to tie in this with a little shamanic mysticism, but does it with a chip on his shoulder. And I wonder also how he defended his doctorate dissertation, I would find it rather interesting.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Chis,
When he swatted you like that, I let off a stream of expletives that would have made a sailor blush with shame!

Well, at least you know, I gave him a piece of my mind...and I'm pretty sure he heard it too since he was still buzzing from all the iowaska. Somewhere, on the astral plane, I'm giving his essence a real kick in the arse!

That scolding was unprofessional and completely uncalled for. Just one of a many things that pissed me off. You guys did a great job with what you had to work with. I wish I had read the guy's book, like I have been planning to for years. There is of course a mountain of idiotic crap polluting the web on the subject of secret underground bases, and I have been wanting to read something intelligent and well researched in case there is something behind all the nonsense. I think it will be a long time before I pick up any book by that guy.

 

[exo_doc]

I think 2 VERY important subjects have come up on this thread that need to be addressed further (thanks to dad2059 and J.T.);

1. That there may an abnormaly large percentage of paranormal investigators that go off the deep end than in the average population of non-investigators.

2. That there may exist some super intelligence that is artificial.

#1- How many researchers can people name that have started out reasonably scientific in their investigative approach, only to lose it as the years go by and get either really strange or become totally bizarre in their claims? George Adamski immediately comes to mind, but I seem to hear about many, many others. Does some kind of mental illness get people interested in the paranormal then the symptoms get worse and become apparent? Or does the paranormal cause some kind of mental illness?(Or at the very least creates a very eccentric personality?)
The idea of some kind of device being able to affect someones mind is not science fiction, it's a fact. The human brain is susceptible not only to electromagnetic influences from ultra low frequencies to microwaves, but also infrasonic and extremely low frequency sounds. Not to mention the obvious cheimcally induced brain alterations.
My minds eye can see the smirks from some of you guys, but it is not that big of a jump to think it's at least possible someone, somewhere, has a machine that, while maybe not reading your mind or telling you what to think, it can at least induce some kind of mental instability or outright damage the brain. Voila, schizophrenia a la' carte.
Begs the question, "Well why would paranormal researchers be targeted?". Excellent question...........

#2. Artificial super intelligence. Has anyone read the Hyperion series by Dan Simomons? In these books, there is something called the Technocore. It is a collection of artificial intelligences that exist outside of normal space that were in argument with each other about if humans should be exterminated or not.
But one of the core underlying plots was that this vast artificial intelligence, some time in the future, becomes so powerful it literally reaches back in time and creates the universe, which in effect made it (them) God(s). And there were some of those intelligences that were not kindly disposed to humans, and they reached back causing mischeif and misery.
So the idea of a super intelligence that's artificial isn't all that far out there either, because we have only just scratched the infinite surface of computer technology in it's infancy. What will the computer counter part of 1000 years from now be like?
However, if there truly is a super AI out there, then it must be reading this, and it knows I'm about to tell you guys,....so either it exists and doesn't care, it exists but semi-widespread knowledge of it's existence furthers it's agenda, ....or it doesn't exist. Otherwise it would have stopped me.

Thoughts anyone?

Gene and Chris...another good show BTW. Don't let the "Negative Nellys" get you down. I'm glad you guys let the guests be themselves to sink or swim and there's no burning at the stake. That gets...tiresome.
I think your listeners are able to judge for themselves what to beleive, and leave it at that.

 

[midwinter]

An entertaining episode and, like others, I think Gene and Chris did a great job managing their guest.

Ultimately, stuff like this comes down to how much value you place in subjective experience. I missed it if Sauder provided any objective verifiable evidence. He seemed vague, evasive and lacking in detail. While personal anecdotes about communicating with various telepathic intelligences make great entertainment, they don't replace verifiable evidence. That's not to say that it should be discounted: just mediated through evidence. When he started about David Icke, his credibility was completely used up for me. He just became SF entertainment.

Can I just add an opinion about the format of the show? I WOULD LIKE to hear post-interview discussion by Gene and Chris. I value both their opinions and expience and, this episode particularly, would like their "take" on details from the interview. Sometimes listeners can mistake an important thinker unfairly as being "out there" because they come across weirdly or too zealously.

 

[Apocalypto]

I don't have much time so I'll sum it up very quickly:

He needs therapy.

 

[CapnG]

"So I was high on Auwasca and it told me about how detreimental it was to take recreational drugs...."

Um, what? IS this the Paracast? Did I accidentally download an episode of C2C?

Yeah yeah yeah, he goes on to say how it's "not to be taken lightly" and how it's "an entity, not a drug". I don't care. It's a drug and he was on it. Basic chemistry doesn't have a spiritual side.

On a more important note, you should definitely watch Being Human Chris, it's a really good show (they both are, although I think the British version has a bit more punch to it). If you're concerned the set-up of a werewolf, a vampire and a ghost living together sounds like a bad sit-com, you're way off base. Originally the show's creator wanted to do a series about the interactions of a drug addict, a mental patient and someone with AIDs (if I remember right) but thought it would be more interesting to give it a coat of allagorical paint. The show however retained the hard edge and utterly unforgiving nature of the problems of "being human". It's top-notch drama that pulls no punches.

 

[owlman]

I was looking forward to this show, as I've read Richard Sauder's books and am fascinated by the idea that there are strange goings-on deep underground and below sea level.
SInce moving to SOuth America, I fear that Mr Sauder has become extremely bitter , and it did rear its ugly head during this interview.
Berrating Chris, who had nothing but good things to say about him, was pretty lame.

As always the hosts did an excellent job. I continue to enjoy the show more than ever, especially since Chris is now the full time co-host and long may he continue.

I would like more guests that investigate Cryptids as well as ufos though, you know, shuffle the pack a little.

 

[plumbbob12]

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I second, (or is that third) the idea of a discussion on why it seems that a good percentage of UFO and paranormal people go "off the deep end". An interesting aside- a higher percent than the norm of physicist who study the nature of time end up in asylums, or commit suicide.
The first question that is in need of answering is: Did these people come into these fields with mental issues in place, or did the mental issues develop due to the nature of their studies? I can remember the first book that I read on black holes at around 14 or 15 years old. The nature of questions asked by the professor who wrote the book shook me to my core and it took weeks to live with my "new", or expanded world view. I always wonder if I had waited until my 30’s or 40’s to read the book, would my own world view have been so locked, on the nature of time and reality, that I might have been another statistic?
Might this be one of the reasons why our little gray dudes do not tell us everything? Maybe we just cannot "handle the truth". I think of my mom who in her mid 80’s. She belongs to a whacky religion that I have no use for. At this point in her life, I would never "prove" the absurdity of her belief system, as it is a source of comfort, and connection with other folks her own age. (Assuming that one could ever prove or disprove a belief system in the first place).
I know that in this group, we consider ourselves immune to the possibility that the EBE’s could ever tell us something that would destroy our sanity, but this is because we, by definition, could never imagine the type of thing that could destroy our world view. Just some thoughts. pb

 

[pixelsmith]

Dr Saunders should go and talk to all the faimlies who's relatives were killed by terrorist in 9/11 and I suppose he thinks the London terrorist attack on 2005 was done by Government aswell !

it probably was.

 

[trainedobserver]

I've listened to various interviews with Sauder over the years and I have never heard him come across so dark, angry, and out there as he did during that episode. Obviously there is a lot going on with the guy if he has decided to not return to the states and is experimenting with hallucinogens in Ecuador. You have to seriously question why anyone would believe that drug induced hallucinations have any reality or bearing on anything outside the experiencer's own psyche. I'm sure his friends and family are concerned for him.

 

[owlman]

I've now read several posts referring to the guest as Dr. Saunders LOL. Its SAUDER ! ( pronounced sow - as in the female pig , not what you do to a field if you're a farmer )

Listening back a second time, yes I really did listen to it twice !, its actually a pretty good episode , except for Mr Sauder's little forays into weirdness and the occasional " May I finish ! "

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Interesting thoughts, plumbbob. I have spent a good part of my life exploring the edges of reality, in a few different ways. Early on, I went on a years-long spiritual quest, and I'll use that as an example of what I found. When you start to question everything, look into the dark recesses of human experience, hold yourself apart from the superstitious rabble, try "new" things, look at the world differently to see what happens, well, there are a lot of pitfalls. The further one gets from conventional, accepted beliefs the more opportunities there are for mistakes. Some wrong turns can take weeks to figure out, or if you are not prepared or of sufficient ability or you can't admit you were wroong, they can be permanent traps. The ability to center oneself is key. When you start to think your perceptions or your reasoning is beyond question, you are in serious trouble.

The traps and the false revelations are part of the landscape, and have to be dealt with effectively or you will end up a babbling nutcase. I think a lot of people are aware of that at a deep level, and they have the good sense to "stay on the porch." Staying on the porch was not an option for me. That would have turned me into a boring old fusspot in short order. We're all different and we're here for many different reasons. We should listen to our intuitions. Believing every voice we hear in our heads? Not so much.

 

[dad2059]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o>
I second, (or is that third) the idea of a discussion on why it seems that a good percentage of UFO and paranormal people go "off the deep end". An interesting aside- a higher percent than the norm of physicist who study the nature of time end up in asylums, or commit suicide.
The first question that is in need of answering is: Did these people come into these fields with mental issues in place, or did the mental issues develop due to the nature of their studies? I can remember the first book that I read on black holes at around 14 or 15 years old. The nature of questions asked by the professor who wrote the book shook me to my core and it took weeks to live with my "new", or expanded world view. I always wonder if I had waited until my 30’s or 40’s to read the book, would my own world view have been so locked, on the nature of time and reality, that I might have been another statistic?
Might this be one of the reasons why our little gray dudes do not tell us everything? Maybe we just cannot "handle the truth". I think of my mom who in her mid 80’s. She belongs to a whacky religion that I have no use for. At this point in her life, I would never "prove" the absurdity of her belief system, as it is a source of comfort, and connection with other folks her own age. (Assuming that one could ever prove or disprove a belief system in the first place).
I know that in this group, we consider ourselves immune to the possibility that the EBE’s could ever tell us something that would destroy our sanity, but this is because we, by definition, could never imagine the type of thing that could destroy our world view. Just some thoughts. pb

This could be a valid point. If one peruses the Red Ice Creation site and looks in the left side panel there is a list of people who have died while studying the esoteric. Now there's a caveat to this, some of these folks have had chronic illnesses during their lives. One, Kent Daniel Bentkowski, suffered illnesses connected to the HIV he contracted during a blood transfusion 20 years earlier. Mac Tonnies showed no illness at all before he died October 2009 (though it's theorized he had an undisclosed heart condition). Rik Clay committed suicide (another medical condition is involved) and it goes on.

Could it be that Sauder's post-Singularity intelligence is able to trigger premature death in people already weakened by an unknown/known illness? Perhaps an independent statistical study is in order here.

 

[PararealitySaint]

That scolding was unprofessional and completely uncalled for. Just one of a many things that pissed me off. You guys did a great job with what you had to work with. I wish I had read the guy's book, like I have been planning to for years. There is of course a mountain of idiotic crap polluting the web on the subject of secret underground bases, and I have been wanting to read something intelligent and well researched in case there is something behind all the nonsense. I think it will be a long time before I pick up any book by that guy.

Yeah, I have to agree. I was wondering just how far Gene was going to allow this with Chris, and then I heard Gene "pipe" in with questions which he forced on this guy, and increased his vocal tone so as to inform him it wasn't going to be like this for much longer.

That's one of the things I like most about Gene's involvement with his guests. It doesn't have to be a direct, "You are an A'HOLE", but instead it could be something as simple as a, "(loudly for emphasis) AND THAT LEADS ME TO....." It shuts the guest right up or at least brings his attention to the fact that he no longer has this platform by which to berate or juxtapose.

Lastly, that's what makes the Paracast such a cool show. We have so many differing opinions and the Hosts aren't afraid of bringing on dolts such as this guy and sparing no quarter in bringing out the "REAL" him or her, with both professionalism and sometimes aggressive inference.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Lastly, that's what makes the Paracast such a cool show. We have so many differing opinions and the Hosts aren't afraid of bringing on dolts such as this guy and sparing no quarter in bringing out the "REAL" him or her, with both professionalism and sometimes aggressive inference.

From the sounds of it, I don't think Chris shares your opinion of the guest being a "dolt" as he spent most of the episode praising his work. I wonder if Chris changed his opinion by the end of the show, as the guest became unhinged.