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January 25, 2015 — David Marler


Some of the light-air triangles could be built for private use or R&D not sponsored by military. In the USA we have many multimillionaires and billionaires interested in flight/space that might build and fly such light-air craft.

You know Tucson has a big airbase with a lot of exercises done in the region. The Phoenix Lights may have been a formation flyover using formation lights with A-10's going south from Nevada at the end of known training exercises. [A guest on another Paracast has suggested this.] Also, the flares seen later that night came from different military aircraft too.

Eyewitness accounts are making assumptions that these triangle aircraft have certain performance characteristics that are only guessed at AND seen at nighttime ONLY regarding the big triangles since the 1980's. So, there is no proof [especially about performance] that would satisfy David Marler without radar confirmation ADDED to several eyewitness accounts. I think he cited ONLY ONE account that had A VISUAL and RADAR. That was in South America (Chile?). Belgium did not have visual with radar -it was a nighttime F-16 scramble with no pilot visual sighting too.

There were many daylight sightings of large triangles moving slowly and hovering in the 1980's, but Human made craft [light-air] can do that.
 
I'm just trying to make the point that they do this over specific training areas. Not over your local mini mall and police station.
It's very true the military will train in designated areas, but often the aircraft must flyover civilian areas to get to the training area.

I honestly believe some millionaire or billionaire trickster is flying black triangles in light-air craft. These are the slower triangles that keep-up and pass car traffic at night along highways or elsewhere. That's my best guess IF this is happening a few times every year.

Any PROVEN (radar & multiple witnesses) high-performance craft would have to be military or ET or Magic Trick Holograms (at night).
 
Gene doesn't "bow down" to Ray Stanford—neither do I. We appreciate decades of first-class analytical work, me especially. Since you have so many negative things to say about us and the show, why don't you post a well-thought poll and see what other people think. We are always open to well-meaning criticism and will always strive to improve the show. For calling us out for not being open-minded and too opinionated, you seem to have your mind closed and made-up about us! Pot calling the kettle, in my book...
"Limits" has bowed down to an enforced vacation. There's clearly an agenda there.
 
It's very true the military will train in designated areas, but often the aircraft must flyover civilian areas to get to the training area.

I honestly believe some millionaire or billionaire trickster is flying black triangles in light-air craft. These are the slower triangles that keep-up and pass car traffic at night along highways or elsewhere. That's my best guess IF this is happening a few times every year.

Any PROVEN (radar & multiple witnesses) high-performance craft would have to be military or ET or Magic Trick Holograms (at night).
It's very true the military will train in designated areas, but often the aircraft must flyover civilian areas to get to the training area.

I honestly believe some millionaire or billionaire trickster is flying black triangles in light-air craft. These are the slower triangles that keep-up and pass car traffic at night along highways or elsewhere. That's my best guess IF this is happening a few times every year.

Any PROVEN (radar & multiple witnesses) high-performance craft would have to be military or ET or Magic Trick Holograms (at night).

Yes, military aircraft will sometimes have to pass over a populated area. But it will be a point A to point B trajectory. Not right angle turns, hovering, 300 ft over homes, etc. etc.
 
For the people that are pissed at the show or the way the show is ran; quit listening. It'd be like someone going to a restaurant every Sunday night with their significant other and bitching non stop about the food. But then returning next Sunday. And the Sunday after that, etc. etc. I'm pretty sure there are other UFO shows/podcasts available for your enjoyment.
 
David Marler was a great guest and I hope there will be reappearances. He's obviously well-read and a critical thinker, which is the best you can hope for and not always a given with researchers (and those who call themselves that) in the field of Ufology. Plus, his appearance has made kanakaris tell us of his sighting. Always a good thing when that happens.

I'm very much in line with Marler's rejection of the TR3B (or whatever it's called) theory. People are often stating this "secret project"as a fact, when there is actually no good evidence for it. The videos I've seen all looked very much like CGI.

Also, I liked what he said about the Phoenix lights. I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, but if ever something looked like a cover-up operation it's these flares in Dr. Kitei's (and other) videos.

@Gene Steinberg: there may be millions of "nocturnal lights" videos on Youtube, but IMO some of them actually do show faraway flying objects with very unusual flight behaviour (= not insects, bats, planes, helicopters, satellites, meteors...). I think it's sad these get totally overlooked and shrugged off, while they should actually be studied. But it's your opinion and I have to accept it.

If @withoutlimits09 is still reading: I like people who have clear opinions and who don't hide them to please others. That doesn't mean they have to be right, of course, but I think it's obvious both Gene and Chris are open-minded enough to change their respective opinions, if evidence should show up that clearly contradicts them.

Regarding the topics you mentioned, there isn't much evidence for them at all, yet, they are what outsiders who are looking into Ufology will probably get to see first. So I can understand why serious researchers would like to distance themselves at every opportunity.

Having said that, I once thought of reincarnation theory as absolutely ridiculous religiously motivated crap. So I guess, opinions not only change but they can turn around 180 degrees.
 
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In my humble opinion, no one has done more harm to the objective study of the Phoenix Lights than the good doctor Kitei. Her book strongly suggests that the lights were there FOR HER, and that she had some sort of COSMIC CONNECTION to them. Stating such views in a dominating voice that would curdle milk in a non-stop banter (doesn't she need to breath?) is enough to cause someone seriously interested in the case (like me) to shun it. First we had Dr. Steven Greer claim that he is the Earth's first embassador to the stars, and that UFOs and orbs chat with him (because he is so special). Now we have Dr. Kitei taking credit for the Phoenix lights, asserting that they have come to see her on her hilltop home on an "eye to eye" level, so to speak. She is also "special". Save me!

As for the military going over neighborhoods, I live on the far edges of north Phoenix. We have military top gun style jets going over the house at a low altitude all the time. They are always traveling in a Northeasterly direction probably from Luke Air Force Base. We have also seen some very peculiar craft going over the house in the same direction. Since Phoenix is to me a mini-Los Angeles, spreading like an amoeba into the desert, unless they move the air base, they have no choice but to fly over populated land that until a few years ago was open desert.

Coincidentally, as I write this, a huge black military helicopter has just gone over the house.
 
As for the military going over neighborhoods, I live on the far edges of north Phoenix. We have military top gun style jets going over the house at a low altitude all the time. They are always traveling in a Northeasterly direction probably from Luke Air Force Base. We have also seen some very peculiar craft going over the house in the same direction. Since Phoenix is to me a mini-Los Angeles, spreading like an amoeba into the desert, unless they move the air base, they have no choice but to fly over populated land that until a few years ago was open desert.

Coincidentally, as I write this, a huge black military helicopter has just gone over the house.
1) Regarding military fly overs... Is there an online map that shows all the military bases and airports in the USA?

2) Also, we really need to pinpoint all the major aircraft/spacecraft manufacturers locations too.

3) And, all the military ranges and restricted space.

Until that happens we really can't get a handle on most ET vs Human UFO sightings. I'm certain PATTERNS WOULD EMERGE to at least give BRILLIANT CLUES which cases to focus on, and which UFO craft are likely Human made.

The WHITE NOISE SIGNAL is TOO HUGE and TOO LOUD with so many videos, pics, sightings, MISTAKEN identities, AND hoaxing too! 1, 2, and 3 above would serve us well.

I'll start a thread about this in the UFO section.
 
Great show enjoyed the guest and like many researchers who never encountered these objects have to rely on witness testimonies. The human abilty to remember a event is puzzel within itself unless a traumatic event of such fear of life threating leaves deep hidden scars for example talk to WW2 combat pilots who actualy seen action and the enemies eye prior to making a kill the detail they can tell you of the aircraft. The similar when those fighter pilots of Vietnam , Iraq or commercial pilots who acctually seen these massive triangles objects. Like the guest said getting any fighter pilot to admitt they have chased or escorted ? a craft of that type and certainly finished .
 
I would like to have david back on as a guest with discussions focusing on his sleep studies work...if he still pursues that type of study.
Seeing how many people have had admitted "sleep issues" [myself included with bizarre slp-paralysis w/entities decades ago] on this forum alone this is a no-brainer!

Marler is perfect since he combines BOTH work/interests in his life.
 
FYI, for those wanting more info, I found two other long audio interviews online w/Marler. BOTH were excellent and did ADD more information too. Free to download.
 
Triangle case in 1982 in Germany

Triangular UFO Above U.S. Army Nuclear Weapons Depot
Performs 360-Degree Roll


By Robert Hastings
Robert Hastings • UFOs and Nuclear Weapons
1-25-15

A summary of this incident was initially posted online by Roger Marsh, Communications Director for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), and designated Case 60648. I sought and received permission to contact the witness.

On Thanksgiving Day, November 25, 1982, U.S. Army Military Policeman (M.P.) Christopher Grooms was on guard duty in Tower 5 at the U.S. Army Special Weapons Depot at Kriegsfeld, a nuclear weapons storage and maintenance site in Rhineland-Palatinate, West Germany.

In his statement to MUFON, Grooms wrote:

"I observed [for over 10 minutes] a very dark triangular-shaped craft fly from the southwest, over the valley, over the town of Gerbach, and directly over my watchtower flying in a [northeast] direction.

It was a natural occurrence to see military aircraft...during hours of daylight. I often observed A-10, F-4F, F-111 and OV-10 aircraft in the area and was quite familiar with all military aircraft of that era. It was a hobby for me to watch them and could easily identify aircraft by sight and often just by the noise of their engines.

This dark aircraft peaked my attention because it was flying very slowly and very straight. It was normal to see the aircraft...have some movement, however slight, on all three [axes] of movement. This unknown craft flew as if it were on rails—slow, steady, with no appreciable movement outside of the [northeast] direction of travel until it actually flew above me.

I would estimate that due to the height of my watchtower and the location of the Army depot on the highest hill in the area, and perched at the edge of the hill where I could observe the valley that stretched out in front of me, that I first saw the aircraft at least 15 km distant to me, possibly even further. It took at least 7 to 10 minutes for the craft to fly that distance until it was directly above me.

As it flew directly overhead, I stepped out onto the tower landing with M-16 in hand and looked straight up at this object. I could not identify its manufacture as any aircraft I had ever seen...I noticed a marked absence of noise of any kind at that moment.

I later thought of it as a type of tunnel vision, as I was concentrating so hard to identify the craft. The other notable event, that no aircraft could do, was as it flew directly over me. As it passed over, the craft rotated 360-degrees nose down. It pointed directly at me during this...rotation [and] ended up pointing in the same direction it had originally been pointing. I must also note that the aircraft at no time lost its forward momentum of travel while undergoing this maneuver. I had the overwhelming feeling that it was acknowledging my presence with this maneuver or was ‘checking me out’ as it did it.

The craft continued in the northeast direction and made a slight direction change to the north that would have taken it over another ‘non-nuclear’ depot just up the road.

Because of my security clearance and status under the personal reliability program I just buried the incident and didn’t report it to anyone. I can only presume the other Military Policemen in towers 2, 3 and 4 either suppressed their sighting of the aircraft, for the same reasons as I, or they did not observe the craft because they were asleep. It was not uncommon for guards to sleep in the towers. The morale of the unit was very low and the duties there were tedious and at time quite harsh.

I had long forgotten the incident until watching a program on the History Channel, when the sighting in Brussels was brought up...It has been many years but I am sure I could trace the flight path over a map of the area. The Army depot is still there. It has been converted into a windmill power station now."



I contacted Grooms via email—he still lives in Germany—and asked him to elaborate on a few points. I first asked, “What type of nuclear weapons were stored at the Kriegsfeld Army Depot?”

He responded, “The M.P.s were not given a definitive answer as to the exact types of weapons on a formal basis. We all knew, however, that we had some very antiquated weapons in storage dating back to the Korean War era, such as the Honest John missiles...North Point [as the depot was informally called] was unique in its character. It was not a battery or permanent storage area. It was the maintenance depot for the special weapons. They had to undergo scheduled maintenance just as any other type of weapon or system in the military. We often transported these special weapons throughout Germany.”

I asked, “Did the feeling you had, regarding someone in the craft looking at you, seem like a psychic impression—like some mental communication was occurring—or just a sense that someone had to have seen you when the nose of the craft was pointed in your direction?”

I also asked, “Similarly, did the tunnel vision that you report seem like an actual physical effect imposed upon you whereby your field of view was seemingly channeled into a very narrow area or, on the other hand, did it seem more like you were so focused on the object that all other visual objects faded into nothingness due to your intense concentration?”

Grooms responded, “It is very difficult to pin down the feeling I had as the craft passed overhead and ‘nosed down’ at me. I did feel not just tunnel vision but all of my senses seemed to focus only on the object. I no longer heard any of the ambient background noise of the area, I no longer felt the breeze or temperature. I had the distinct feeling that I was being observed or even studied. I did not raise my M-16 to an offensive position. My training would not allow that and for some unknown reason I really didn't feel threatened.”

He continued, “I was very startled when the craft pointed directly at me but I [also] felt a great sense of ‘stillness’. I really felt as if I were being acknowledged in some way for noticing the craft. I felt as if I were being observed just as thoroughly as I was observing the craft. I recall that I may have even noticed a slight change in atmosphere as the craft pointed at me; maybe like a very, very slight static aura were about me. As soon as the craft continued its rotation and was no longer pointing directly at me the tunnel vision and senses returned to normal. [It seemed] to me this could not have taken more than ten seconds or so.”

I asked, “Did you notice any unusual activity at the depot in the hours or days that followed: Routine procedures being disrupted by unexpected inspections of the weapons, interviews with the troops by your commander or other military or civilian personnel not familiar to you? Or any other unusual development?”

Grooms replied, “I did not notice anything out of the norm afterwards. This was the holiday season and many of the Ordinance personnel were on leave, along with much of the administration. M.P.s were not usually in the information loop as far as weapons maintenance was involved. Our only contact with the weapons was at times of transport or on some occasions when certain items were dismantled for maintenance. As far as I know, this incident went unreported to anyone. We were in an environment where to do so would have caused even more hardship.”

I asked, “So, there was absolutely no discussion of the incident by you with anyone else, even later on?”

He responded, “I did not discuss it with anyone because of the harsh environment that we all worked in. I was one—still being young at the time—to follow all the rules and not take risks. This did not lend itself to endearment with my ‘more seasoned’ comrades who routinely took chances and disobeyed rules. Alcoholism and drug abuse were rampant with very little to no morale in the 558th M.P. Company. North Point was known as the worst duty station that an M.P. could draw. I got it straight out of basic training.”

I asked, “What, in your opinion, did you see? In other words, was this an experimental aircraft, an alien spaceship, or some other type of craft? Or do you have no opinion?”

Grooms replied, “I do not believe this [was] an experimental aircraft, at least not anything of the norm of the early 1980s. There was no noise of any kind. The flight was too perfect in nature. The maneuver overhead was not of a type that any aircraft using an airfoil for lift could have accomplished. The craft emitted no light or reflection of any kind and I could not make out any surface detail. Honestly, if anything, it appeared to absorb light rather than reflect it. If it were experimental in nature, then why would it risk flying in full view of the public? Where is the craft now? It's been far too long for something of this nature to not have had profound repercussions on science, the military, and the civilian world by now.”

He continued, “Was it alien? Probably. I can't say where it was from. I am not closed-minded to the idea of [other] dimensions. Maybe it was from Earth, just not an Earth I am familiar with. I felt a definite intelligence behind it. It was controlled. I feel it acknowledged my presence and even gave me a quick ‘look over’.”


Finally, I asked, “Why did you decide to write to MUFON after all of these years? Yes, you saw a TV show that jogged your memory, but why did you feel compelled to tell someone about your own sighting?”

Grooms replied, “The reason I decided to report this case is a sense of security now. I am retired and am not under the [Uniform Code of Military Justice] and do not work for the [Department of Defense]. I have told some friends in the past about the incident but not in detail and usually just in passing conversation. I think with all the vastness of the universe that it would be foolish to believe that we are the only sentient beings in it. I think that mankind is becoming more accepting of these events and I believe that the more people who come forward with their incidents will only add credence to everything that has been reported to date. As a former [law enforcement] investigator, I always felt that more information is better than too little information. I would rather sift through the chaff than to sift through nothing at all. So I feel it is my duty to mankind to share my sighting.”

Triangular UFO Above U.S. Army Nuclear Weapons Depot Performs 360-Degree Roll
 
As it passed over, the craft rotated 360-degrees nose down. It pointed directly at me during this...rotation [and] ended up pointing in the same direction it had originally been pointing.

Here we have the same scenario of "defense probing" during a holiday period such as BntWt-Rn. Secret light air craft are definitely possible in that time frame.

Are you familiar with how anthrax is dispersed? There is an electrostatic charge that floats the particles on air. That's been done since at least the 1960's.

I believe there is some electrostatic charge and/or microwave being directed to disrupt our brains and visual centers. There could be an electrostatic aspect in the navigation of the craft too, BUT helium and/or hot air can float the craft. It's easy to push it along with silent "airprops" driven by electricity or any number of ways I might think of using sound cancellation and suppression.

Silent running is EASY, imo, when money is available.

The VERY FACT these craft are going around nuclear weapons sites PROVES these are Human Black Op Probes from a psychological POV. Kirtland Air Force Base is The Cat Out of The Bag! Bennewitz caught some of these probes on the ground and photographed these from his rooftop! They flew-off to do the cattle mutes at Dulce too. UFO holography was also witnessed too!

ANY IMAGE -including a fake black triangle- can be projected from a platform! All the crap is happening at NIGHT. Military rules at night!

I say 99% Human Caused with a 1% chance non-humans control these events.

I met Burt Rutan in the mid-1970's. He's the guy going to Space in the California desert. His VariEze experimental aircraft was very advanced and using exotic materials for anyone to build that plane in the 1970's. My point is... the technologies were there... "frack" we went to the Moon in the 1960's. What were the Military Budgets during that time frame? These were massive and overwhelming compared to NASA's budget.
 
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Btw, Hastings, Salas, et al are doing no favors for any Peace Movement to get rid of Nuclear Weapons!

IF the US/Russian Military's were convinced ET is real, then there would be more massive spending and taxes. The nuclear weapons will not be reduced. Heck, even Ronald Reagan talked about defending ourselves from ET to help Star Wars.

You need to get serious about Vallee's control system, because the ET-UFO's sure are helping out our MIC by probing away. Keep it churning and churning forevermore... keep it in the subconscious, simmering just under the surface, probe, probe, probe when needed. Get that media attention going, when the interest is fading or we need to get our defenses [spending your money] up again. Play the show with Hollywood Independence Day, then Phoenix Lights, then Men in Black ALL within months of each other!!! The Control System is Working!

This IS a Human Control System.

Linda Moulton Howe is one of their best agents of all time! ALL the X-Military are dupes to this cause, EXCEPT those that will be brave to expose and fight this Human Control System.

It is NOT ET.
 
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