In your opinion, who/what is God ?

[Roro]

It's not that hard to get a grip on the God concept. Just take it one step at a time.

When we talk about God we, by necessity, anthropomorphize God. When I say God is unknowable I mean that God is so completely 'other' that I can't describe or think about him in terms that do God justice. Acknowledging that I speak in anthropomorphic terms that are not accurate I can say things about God.

God is a personality, not a vague notion like "god is the universe," "god is the collective unconscious," or "god is in all of us."
God is prescient.
God exists outside of space/time.
God reveals himself to man as a trinity of personalities.

These are things that, in my opinion, are true about God.

 

[Randall]

When we talk about God we, by necessity, anthropomorphize God. When I say God is unknowable I mean that God is so completely 'other' that I can't describe or think about him in terms that do God justice. Acknowledging that I speak in anthropomorphic terms that are not accurate I can say things about God.

God is a personality, not a vague notion like "god is the universe," "god is the collective unconscious," or "god is in all of us."
God is prescient.
God exists outside of space/time.
God reveals himself to man as a trinity of personalities.

These are things that, in my opinion, are true about God.

Power, prescience, multiple personalities, and whether or not God lives inside or outside our spacetime do not equate to sanity or goodnessis and therefore are irrelevant ( as least to me ). And if there were some high powered sane and good entity, it wouldn't be so conceited as to require congregations of followers to blindly obey and carry out pointless rituals, lest it become so jealous that it would inflict large scale pain and suffering.

j.r.

 

[trainedobserver]

God is a personality, not a vague notion like "god is the universe," "god is the collective unconscious," or "god is in all of us."
God is prescient.
God exists outside of space/time.
God reveals himself to man as a trinity of personalities.

These are things that, in my opinion, are true about God.

Muslims and a few Christian denominations would disagree about the multiple personalities.

 

[tyder001]

I don't mean to sound flip because I'm very serious. I don't think I can ever answer who and what God is until I know who and what I am. I honestly don't buy the materialistic answer of being arising from chemicals. I also, can't buy any of the dogmas of the major religions and the new age is just to neat and manufactured. Once, I know myself then I honestly think I will know God. So, can that be done before I die? I don't know. I think it can. Can science prove or disprove a god? No, I don't think so. But, you never know. I was a Christian for many years. I still idenify as a Christian but it's not the born again fire and brimstone absolute version. I absolutely admit that I "prefer" the Christian myth to all the other myths be they religious or scientism. To me the idea of God incarnating in a man (or a woman for that matter) and living and dying among us is the greatest love of all. That kind of God. The one who gets dirty and takes a piss and has lust and fear and wonders and lives among the poor pitiful human race is a God worth knowing. So, in that respect I think I can still call myself a Christian. A liberal one or an odd one or a heretic. I wear all those labels and don't refute any of them. I wish I could be a born again bible thumping church going "saved" and holy person like I used to strive to be. Trust me the world seems a lot safer if you are a religious person or a stauch atheist. Either way you have the anwer to the lunacy of life. But, to us souls who have tasted enough to know we are more than the sum of our parts and, who have been ravaged enough to know there are no magic words or get out jail card free. Well, to us it's a marathon journey into the darkness and the light. So, who or what is God? Well, he/she isn't a brain fart or a angry old man in the sky. I think therfore I am. Or I am that I am. I honestly bleieve that I am a part of a greater whole and that I am an individual spiritual manifestation. I also am blood and guts and piss and love and fear and hate and anger and hope. I am not produced by the brain. So, did I answer your question? I didn't think so.

 

[Randall]

I don't mean to sound flip because I'm very serious. I don't think I can ever answer who and what God is until I know who and what I am. I honestly don't buy the materialistic answer of being arising from chemicals. I also, can't buy any of the dogmas of the major religions and the new age is just to neat and manufactured. Once, I know myself then I honestly think I will know God.

It seems to me you are pretty intelligent and capable of logical thought. So I'm confused as to why you don't understand that God ( any God ) is no more that a deity for a religious belief system. It's not that complex. You don't need to unlock the mysteries of your own existence first to understand this.

 

[tyder001]

Logical? No, God is a word we use that can be locked into a religious system. It very often is. However, I am refering to that inner life that I've always had. The intiution that I am. I watch and I observe and I give meaning. That meaning is not meaningless. While I consider fundlemental religion of any kind to be inherently misguided I consider the primordial soup myth to be just as misguided if not more. But, as for myself I don't see your point at all. Unless, I know myself and who I am and where I come from then how can I know the "other?" I am either the eye that remembers seeing the other lives and the times when I have had visions and dreams or I'm the result of nothing but a by product of chemicals and whatever the materialist comes up with to explain it. That to me is without sense and meaning and just calling it meaningful is both stupid and borders on insanity. So, yeah I need to know what I am in order to even begin the search for my begining and the origin of all being. Now, is that God? Well, if you mean an angry old man in the sky then no, no I don't think so. I have (which is rare in an older adult) certain past life memories. I was not "me" as in this lifetime but I was entirely "I." Can I prove it? No more than I can prove natural selection except to point at the evidence in my life but even that wouldn't prove it.

Now this is a little off topic but maybe I should put it here. Some months ago I ran across a book (man I wish I had copied the author and name.) It's one of those things where you think "I'll find it again when I need to" and then you just forget the title and for some reason I can't get my pc web browsing history to get back to it. It was on Amazon. Anyway, it was a book by an Atheist. He was a scientist but I can't remember his discipline. But, he was, what I would be if I were ever to be convinced the world had no real meaning apart from the by product of "blind" evolution. He had no illusions at all. He had no use for the phony meaning that so called atheist put into the world. His view was that even people like Richard Dawkins were idiots and pacifiers. Since, the end result of your beautiful child and the roach bug was the same then there was no real love or reality. It's all a crock and you should make all the fun and get all the stuff and get rid of all the other animals that get in your way. There was no honest way to judge Hitler or Stalin or Manson since they were just alpha animals. You don't judge the lion for eating the zebra. So, you had to live by certain rules to get by and you had to have a certain stable enviroment to further the species for your own end. But, other than that (he beleives) you are fooling yourself and you should have no more "guilt" about the death of a human than you would the death of a cockroach. He also went off on the green movement and other silly worries. Now, I have not articulated his points well at all. I promise he did not sound crazy or out there. What I have written may be, but what he said made (from his point of view) sense.

Now, let me hasten to add that I don't agree with him. But, the reason I don't is because I have seen meaning. I have seen spiritual reality. I do see the divine in the face of my beautiful child. I do beleive there is a reason apart from the by product of evolution that we all live. I do believe that "God will restore what the hornet has eaten" to quote a very misused and maligned ancient source. So, the concept of God may or may not be knowable at least not completely. Maybe there isn't a "god" out there somewhere. Maybe we are God or maybe we are pure consiouness and this world is the dream (I suspect this is true.) But, I have no problem moving away from religous dogma but keeping the strength and hope of my inner life and relationship with the "other" with who I have had to do, and have walked with all of my life.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

I believe in intelligent design. I think there's too much evidence of an 'intelligence' behind the 'design' of our universe/reality/etc... for it to be completely accidental.

That being said, the intelligence behind the design doesn't give a sh*t about how we think or "worship" it/him/her. It's a being beyond our comprehension and is far too relevant and massive in scope to be put into a neat cultural concept such as a religion. It is odd that we sense it (the energy or being we would define in our limited scope as "God") and we try to define it, but ultimately I think that the force or being that would meet the definition of God in the closest way really doesn't care too much about us as a whole species, much less as individuals.

So yes, I also subscribe to the "watch maker" ideal, too.

Also "religion" is separate from God, 100%. Religion, as stated a few times along this post as well, is a social, cultural construct designed to utilize guilt, fear, and false promises all for the goal of control over it's followers by a select few. If all religions disappeared and every human being stopped believing in God, God would still exist. Philosophically that is a truth about all things that are real, (Another example would be if everybody suddenly stopped believing in the Grand Canyon, or the Moon, the Moon and Grand Canyon would still exist, but I digress. )

My 2 pennies.

 

[Ezechiel]

I believe in intelligent design. I think there's too much evidence of an 'intelligence' behind the 'design' of our universe/reality/etc... for it to be completely accidental.

That being said, the intelligence behind the design doesn't give a sh*t about how we think or "worship" it/him/her. It's a being beyond our comprehension and is far too relevant and massive in scope to be put into a neat cultural concept such as a religion. It is odd that we sense it (the energy or being we would define in our limited scope as "God") and we try to define it, but ultimately I think that the force or being that would meet the definition of God in the closest way really doesn't care too much about us as a whole species, much less as individuals.

So yes, I also subscribe to the "watch maker" ideal, too.

Also "religion" is separate from God, 100%. Religion, as stated a few times along this post as well, is a social, cultural construct designed to utilize guilt, fear, and false promises all for the goal of control over it's followers by a select few. If all religions disappeared and every human being stopped believing in God, God would still exist. Philosophically that is a truth about all things that are real, (Another example would be if everybody suddenly stopped believing in the Grand Canyon, or the Moon, the Moon and Grand Canyon would still exist, but I digress. )

My 2 pennies.

Why should creation need a creator with a conscience ? Who decided that design should be intelligent ?

Science is still searching while Religions have all the answers right ?

Life is short and if you need quick answers then religion is the only solution

 

[Randall]

Logical? No, God is a word we use that can be locked into a religious system. It very often is. However, I am refering to that inner life that I've always had. The intiution that I am. I watch and I observe and I give meaning. That meaning is not meaningless ...

OK ... the first sentence in your quote, "God is a word we use that can be locked into a religious system." is perfectly correct. The rest goes into your personal search for truth with respect to reality and your place in this realm we call the universe. I admire a truthseeker and hope that you continue searching and sharing your reflections with us.

j.r.

---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

I believe in intelligent design. I think there's too much evidence of an 'intelligence' behind the 'design' of our universe/reality/etc... for it to be completely accidental.

That being said, the intelligence behind the design doesn't give a sh*t about how we think or "worship" it/him/her. It's a being beyond our comprehension and is far too relevant and massive in scope to be put into a neat cultural concept such as a religion.

Hey there Sand ...

You view is not all that uncommon. I've waffled back and forth on the idea of a "universe creator" three times ... I still don't know for sure, but I now at least have a reason to think it's plausbile based on the computational model of the universe ( discussed in more detail elsewhere on the forum ). It just explains too many things to ignore it completely, including why the so-called "creator" seems so dispassionate.

There are three possibilities. It just doesn't care, It created the universe and it ceased to exist ( died ), or it doesn't have the power to intervene the way we presume it does ( it doesn't have omniscient control over the operations that make the universe work ). The other thing to remember is that within the universe itself there are intelligences that can create things. Humans are one example, but there could be ( and probably are ), vastly more intelligent and powerful beings as well. On a universal scale, we're probably pretty low on the food chain.

j.r.

 

[Roro]

Power, prescience, multiple personalities, and whether or not God lives inside or outside our spacetime do not equate to sanity or goodnessis and therefore are irrelevant ( as least to me ). And if there were some high powered sane and good entity, it wouldn't be so conceited as to require congregations of followers to blindly obey and carry out pointless rituals, lest it become so jealous that it would inflict large scale pain and suffering.j.r.

I don't understand your "sanity and goodnessis" comment. Could you explain?

As for congregations of followers carrying our pointless rituals, now your talking about religion, which often has little or nothing to do with God. The bulk of what Christians do isn't found it the teachings of Christ. Man has come up with many forms in which they attempt to worship and serve God or simply to come together as like minded believers. Religion is man reaching out to god, not God reaching out to man.

Muslims and a few Christian denominations would disagree about the multiple personalities.

trainedobserver
I'n not aware of any form of Christianity that does not consider God to be 'Father, Son and Holy Spirit.' Although you may be thinking of some "Christian" cults. (Cult: 3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents)

 

[trainedobserver]

trainedobserver
I'n not aware of any form of Christianity that does not consider God to be 'Father, Son and Holy Spirit.' Although you may be thinking of some "Christian" cults. (Cult: 3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents)

I see, in your estimation any sect or denomination that has views other than your own concerning the trinity, is by definition a cult. This is of course the same line of thinking used by people who call themselves Chrisitans that don't believe in the trinity as well. Probably much more so. To me it's no more relevant than having some differing opinion concerning Zeus, but it is interesting that while people freely throw the word God around like there is some universal use or understanding of the word, that is far from the truth.

I would agree that most mainstream Christians do claim to believe in the paradoxical multiple-personality/person presented as one god regardless of the fact that it is completely ancillary to the Bible itself.

 

[Wickerman1972]

Since I don't believe God actually exists (Although I'd love to be wrong. Who wouldn't want God to be real? I'm not skeptical because I want to be but because I have this nasty affliction of wanting to be right more than satisfying my emotions) I'll comment on what I think the belief in God is: I think it can be summed up in an equation: Mortality + intelligence + hope = a belief in God.

 

[trainedobserver]

Who wouldn't want God to be real?

The question again is, what is this god that you speak of? Who in their right minds would actually want Zeus or Anubis to be real? Who would want a god who commands infanticide or human sacrifice? Its a lot more complicated than sweetness and light.

 

[tyder001]

Wickerman, while I do belieive in God, and have my own reasons for that. I have to tell you the last sentence in your post is awesome. Not because I absolutely agree because I rarely agree with simple statements on a subject as deep as mortality and the human experience. But, it makes (imho) a ton of sense. Doesn't answer the basic question but I've rarely seen it framed so well.

Peace. 8)

 

[Randall]

Since I don't believe God actually exists (Although I'd love to be wrong. Who wouldn't want God to be real? I'm not skeptical because I want to be but because I have this nasty affliction of wanting to be right more than satisfying my emotions) I'll comment on what I think the belief in God is: I think it can be summed up in an equation: Mortality + intelligence + hope = a belief in God.

Well I have all three of those things and don't "believe in" God.

j.r.

 

[dendraw]

Hello All! I like how you think Michael Allen....sounds like you're using your "God-given" brain (sorry...couldn't help that one!), you sound like a natural philosopher to me! A few years back I came across the Secret Doctrine by H.P. Blavatsky and in it (you can go online to Theosophy Co. and under links then Theosophical texts online link to Blavatsky.net and you can view for free many of the published texts)Whew!!! ANYWAY....on p.14 she outlines what she refers to as the three fundamental propositions...btw, I like the use of the word propositions, which infers that one merely consider or contemplate on their own and decide whether or not what is being proposed sounds sensible or not! She starts off by stating
"The Secret Doctrine establishes three fundamental propositions: —

(a) An Omnipresent, Eternal, Boundless, and Immutable Principle on which all speculation is impossible, since it transcends the power of human conception and could only be dwarfed by any human expression or similitude. It is beyond the range and reach of thought — in the words of Mandukya, 'unthinkable and unspeakable.' " Which in my opinion sets the tone for something a little different than say a more literal interpretation which we here in the West are accustomed. This first proposal, at least for me, is VERY important because putting an idea in the realm of the "abstract" already strips away any and all human qualities and attributes we tend to impose on this idea of GOD....the creator and knower of ALL things, the archetype of perfection and all that exists. She then goes on to show how the Law of Cycles comes to play which then connects to the ancient idea of Karma and Reincarnation and finally how the purpose of the previously mentioned is to help and guide us through the process of evolution. Not Darwin's evolution, but Spiritual evolution....and so on. Sorry for being LONG winded here, but my experience has been that when considering an idea like "What is God?", you start to see the importance of making and maintaining links and a cohesiveness as opposed to trying to compartmentalize and separate. I would say in short, WE are all an expression of GOD individually and together (humanity and Nature combined). You also start to see paradoxes...hence the abstractions testing the limits and barriers of the human linear mind. One of the abstract concepts I love to consider is "space"....what is it? How far does it extend? Is there an ending to space or a beginning? Or is it truely an example of ETERNITY? GOD I think is a VERY big concept to chew on...don't you think?! Cheers all, D

 

[Randall]

Hello All! I like how you think Michael Allen....sounds like you're using your "God-given" brain (sorry...couldn't help that one!), you sound like a natural philosopher to me! A few years back I came across the Secret Doctrine by H.P. Blavatsky ... bla bla bla ... ( Use link in this quote to go back and view entire post ... GOD I think is a VERY big concept to chew on...don't you think?! Cheers all, D

Ah yes ... Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and her compatriot Heny Olcott. Now there's an angle nobody has brought up yet. I think dendraw deserves bonus points for that one just because those two are almost cult status. The Theosophical Society has also been associated with the idea that technology from the lost continent of Atlantis has been responsible for strange phenomenon in the Bermuda Triangle, including UFOs, USOs and strange disappearances.

j.r.

 

[Wickerman1972]

Well I have all three of those things and don't "believe in" God.

j.r.

Of course. I don't either. But those are the building blocks. I'd bet money that on any planet where you find a species with those 3 things you're going to find religion in some form.

 

[dendraw]

My Dear Ufology......heh?!... Not quite sure what you're talking about, but it would behoove you to read before you speak! Where are these topics of UFO's, USO's Blah, Blah, Blah and the like mentioned in the section of the Secret Doctrine I quoted, maybe take a second glance so the conversation will actually be interesting!!! referring to comment #117 Au Revoir! D

 

[Ezechiel]

Here's a curve ball

What if humans one day acquire the ability to create parallel micro-universes. (The LHC theoretically should be able to create short lived black holes.... )

If one of these parallel universes generates sentient life forms.... would we be gods then ?

lmao