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Imbrogno, Fraud, Stolen Valor

Discussion in 'The Best of Dark Matters Radio' started by Decker, Jul 13, 2011.



  1. Kieran

    Kieran Paranormal Adept

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    I posted a response at ATS as to why i think that's not Phil. Of course I could be wrong, but having read a couple of his books. I am 80% sure that isn't him.

    ---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 AM ----------

    Just read you post now, great minds think alike lol. You noticed as well how bad that post was.
     
  2. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    Have any of you guys read his books? I think the post on ATS could very well be him. If you discount the typos and spelling errors I believe that it is in his voice. It reminds me of the style in Files from the Edge. The story sounds completely plausible. He found that fraud sold better than truth. I doubt we ever hear from the fellow again.

    This is a milestone in my personal experience with Ufology. Not because I was a tremendous long term Imbrogno fan, but because I've been a fan of Ufology in general. The response to this from the various folks I've looked up to in the field has been really an eye-opener to me and continues to be. It's changed my outlook on the subject and the people involved in it a great deal.

    I appreciate everyone that's done work on this. Several people have spent their own money and time on this. Thanks to Lance, Ron, Don, Chris, and Gene as well as the others who have chipped away at this.
     
  3. Hotkafka

    Hotkafka Sanity is a default

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    Yes, I did see all of that -The MIT admission, etc. - however I'm more referring to acknowledging the "heart of the matter," which to me amounts to deliberately perpetrating fraud on the paranormal community (and the media whom orbits these issues for entertainment from time to time), which he apparently has absolutely no remorse for nor any measure of insight that this could even exist as a blip on the ethical radar - perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions, as I know people are complex and often propelled by forces they don't even understand, but at least to me there seemed little evidence of awareness of this issue in this in this flippantly dismissive and poorly composed post (which says alot if this is his "official" address to the paranormal public - on the other hand it may suggest one Merlot too many whilst the wife slumbers obliviously upstairs). Perhaps it was how I interpreted it, but he seemed to suggest that this could all be blamed not on his choices, which amounted to outright lies, posturing and manipulation on multiple levels (to family, friends, employers, coworkers, publishers, readership, paranormal community, etc. etc.) but too a greater decline in the vitality of the paranormal community; its humor (wtf?) camaraderie and sentimentality and on the flip side, its increase in research accountability and skeptical inquiry. All this, he seemed to say, gave him the right to jerk off scads of bunk that he would deliver to the public as legitimate paranormal research.

    So what do you get when you add that up. A man whom is well aware of how to manipulate, manipulates and then manipulates the reading public to the very end, even on his swan song out. "Goodmorning, goodafternoon and goodnight jagoffs!" And there is no acknowledgement of any awareness as to how or why his behavior may have effected people in any way. Matter of fact, he appears put off by the public's reaction, as if this reflects something gone wrong with "them." Read between the lines here people. Troublesome.
     
  4. icculus

    icculus Paranormal Adept

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    "It's changed my outlook on the subject and the people involved in it a great deal."

    IMHO a bright light needs to be cast upon the cult-of-Streiber. He's always walked a fine line between fact & fiction, but I tell you, the bullshit he peddles on his website is astounding. Given his flock of doe-eyed-believers, and alarmist proclamations, I think he does considerably more harm to this topic than Phil. Look no further than his podcast last week where they dive deeper into the "reality" of the drones.

    Furthermore, good luck getting him as a guest and if you do, and you lob anything faster than a softball he'll throw a tantrum.
     
  5. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    I want to acknowledge first and foremost those who have served, Sincere thank you's.
    The military is the currency with which we purchase peace, and while i might wish the human condition were otherwise, i acknowledge this.
    Second thanks to all who have done the hard yards, and exposed another fraud.
    Unfortunatly Stolen Valor doesnt seem to be an offence which carry's much of a penalty, the richard theilmann (Dick to those familiar with that story) case wasnt pressed by the FBI, so i doubt this one will be either.
    It disgusts me that pretenders should try and cash in on the bravery and blood of the real hero's.

    IMO it takes a special sort of scumbag, who would steal, and thats what it is, steal the honour , the Valor earned, the hardest way possible, often by the ultimate sacrifice of limb, and sometimes life from those who earned it.

    I get why they do it, the admiration and gratitude with which we hold these heros high, is something anyone would covet, but you have to earn it.
    Those who have, rightly deserve our praise
    Those who steal it, rightly deserve our scorn
     
  6. Lauren Jones

    Lauren Jones Paranormal Adept

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    He makes me sick as well.
     
  7. Facius_Cardan

    Facius_Cardan Paranormal Adept

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    I'm not that surprised with this procession of fake credentials. That's a staple in the world of paranormal investigation. The UFO field, for instance, has always been fertile ground for crooks, pseudo-scientists and visionaries who claim to know more than anyone else. People who seek prominence at any cost quickly understand that this theme can be profitable and provide fame within certain social circles. It's a bit like the circus show back in the 19th century: the one who makes the most outlandish claims gets more attention. The audience is as gullible as ever and the showman will try to provide the best mix of fact and fantasy, with a pinch of quasi-religious belief, to satisfy their customers. In the process, the showman may actually become a believer in what he's selling - that will work well because it makes his "product" apparently more sincere and serious.
    This is one of the main reasons that always led me to stay away from most UFO investigators and groups because, more often than not, they're just congregations of castaways and other ostracized individuals that find it difficult to deal with society, its challenges and obligations. Many do it for personal gain, but probably most get into it in order to make sense of their own lives. In the end that doesn't taint the UFO field, because it has always been a large cauldron into which anyone can throw whatever ingredients they want (fact or fiction). The problem is (and always will be) that when you taste the soup, you can't tell one ingredient from the other.
     
  8. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    Streiber has always been problematic. He was involved in the Hale-Bop nonsense if you recall. I think the fact that he and L.M.H. are both on the drone business says a lot about them both.

    Another fraud sells outlet is Open Minds TV/Magazine. They promote charlatans like Burisch among others and have known frauds like Donald Schmitt writing for them. I struggle to understand how they expect to be taken seriously.

    One might argue that if you shook all the frauds, hoaxers, and bald-faced liars out of the paranormal/UFO field there wouldn't be that much left. The desire for new material and more sensational stories obviously drives this content generation. People can only hear about Roswell so many times.
     
  9. tyder001

    tyder001 Paranormal Adept

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    I have to say love him or hate him Strieber isn't a fraud. He may be "out there" and he may even be unstable to an extent. But, he really is a competent writer who has had many "experiences" either in his mind or in reality. I take everything he says with a grain of salt. But, I'm a grown man and I'm responsible for how much of this stuff or any other stuff I consume. I know, I know "what about the great unwashed fools out there." Well, maybe they get what they pay for, who am I to say. There are many things that trouble me. I am devestated at the loss/abuse of children, the robbery and rape of nation/citizens, the hunger and distended bellies of folks both in the "Third World" and the West. So, forgive me if I dont get to awful worked up over "gasp" frauds in the "ahem, field" of Ufology. All that being said the Stolen Valor is indeed a slap in the face of decency and the fake degree pales in comparision to that.
     
  10. Decker

    Decker Administrator Staff Member

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    It seems that this matter concerning Imbrogno is not yet over, more seems to be in the wings. Here is another "degree" that has been dug up.

    http://www.mysterious-america.net/imbrognointervie.html

    With the above in mind, I have been made aware of yet another charge that may be forthcoming very soon, that of massive plagiarism. I will keep my eye on this and see what shakes out.

    Decker
     
  11. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    I don't get it. If the discussion about frauds and hoaxers in the paranormal entertainment industry isn't to your liking then why read and comment on it? Why bring up starving children? What relevance does that have to the subject? Are there are more important things to think about? True enough, but do you think this is the place to talk about them? I'm sure there is a forums dealing with abuse, rape, robbery, and hunger which aren't cluttered up with conversations about paranormal fraud.

    Strieber and his ilk are practically as big a problem as folks like Imbrogno. I have followed him closely for decades and while I wouldn't go out on a limb and say he himself has hoaxed anything, he has done a real poor job of vetting information that is brought to him. The latest drone fiasco is a good example. Streiber is an entertainer.
     
  12. tyder001

    tyder001 Paranormal Adept

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    If the discussion about frauds and hoaxers in the paranormal entertainment industry isn't to your liking then why read and comment on it?


    I find it "interesting in a pop culture type way." I just want to make sure that the poor "unwashed" don't get to worked up and burst a blood vessel over something they can't do anything about." :rolleyes: Sound kinda familar? I doubt it cause certain kinds of folks can't often see their own logical disconnect. More fun to point out their opinion about somebody else's.

    Also, it's a forum. We always go off on tangents and bring up streams of opinions and interject examples that may or may not fit your idea or my idea of what is being discussed, But, you knew that didn't you? You (imo) are just a little to worked up and taking this a little to personal. He's a fraud! But, it doesn't suprise or even really bother me all that much. I just wish I had the money I spent on his books back. But, hey thats on me. Now the "Stolen Valor" does piss me off. But, the fake degrees? Yeah but not as much. Anyway, if your gonna get your panties in a wad everytime I diverge from the "Hang em high" routine then I'll hush about it. I don't want to be responsible for your going into cardiac arrest. :p
     
  13. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    I just don't get your use of hyperbole tyder. Also, it is as though you are bored with the subject and wish everyone would just move on. I'm saying if that is the case there are other forums, threads, and so forth that might be talking about something you are concerned about. No one expects or partially wants you to get worked up about Imbrogno or anything else for that matter. Whatever.
     
  14. tyder001

    tyder001 Paranormal Adept

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    T.O. I just don't see anybody else getting worked up at me about what I post here. I simply have a different perspective than you do. I didn't realise I needed to "vet" my opinions through your radar. I'll keep that in mind next time I post (if i do) on this topic. :rolleyes:


    The problem with getting quotes from the internet is you can never tell if they are genuine....Abraham Lincoln. :cool:
     
  15. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    You are confused tyder. I am not worked up about anything. I just had to wonder why you felt the need to turn our concern here in the forum toward rape, murder, and starving children in a thread about paranormal fraud. It still doesn't make any sense to me but it doesn't need to.
     
  16. Ron Collins

    Ron Collins Curiously Confused

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    He saw drones also. In my opinion, Strieber is a snake oil salesman. His communion stuff was nothing more than fiction that happened to be taken seriously.
     
  17. tyder001

    tyder001 Paranormal Adept

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    Ron, I'm kind of on the fence about Whitley. I do think he "spins" stuff. But, I honestly think "he" had a paranormal (whatever that is/was) experience. He reminds me to the true believer. He is so sure that something is happening that he might even lie or imbellish the truth as an "ends justifys the means" But, I honestly don't know. I do agree about the drones. I'd take everybody in this field the believers and the debunkers with a grain of salt. Whitley has a soft spot with me because I enjoyed the novel "The Wolven" back in the day. :) Of course I was younger then.
     
  18. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    Haven't those drones been totally debunked sometime ago? There's even a website dronehoax.com

    This type of thing causes me to think that both Linda and Whitely, no matter what they might say otherwise, think that their fan-base/listeners are too stupid or disturbed to tell fantasy from reality.

    Parading frauds and proven hoaxes out as honest research is unforgivable. This is what gets me about Open Minds as well. They know what they are doing. It's not an honest mistake so to speak.
     
  19. Will Penguin

    Will Penguin Paranormal Adept

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    We know the drone photos are fake. But you know what would be really funny? What if, now, people really are having "drone" sightings? What would THAT say about the phenomenon?
     
  20. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    I don't know, maybe that the phenomena is adaptive and directly concerned with manipulating the perception of the handful of people paying attention to it?

    I really don't think that is happening. The drones are photoshop (or whatever) creations. People who are claiming to see them are lying or seeing something else (since you can't see a photoshop creation hanging in the sky in front of you). Is the phenomena messing with their minds? I'm betting Linda and Whitely are attempting that instead.
     
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