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DISCLOSURE :place your bets
- Thread starter Slim Shady
- Start date
justcurious
Flying Kitchenettes
I was wondering where he could have read that...
Incompatible Browser | Facebook
Open Minds Forum - Dr Jonathan Reed Alien Encounter 2008 Update.
And other places...
It seems to be connected to a DR JONATHAN REED. Never heard of him, I'm not in the USA nor Canada so I don't know of all the creatures that lurks in the paranormal jungles on your side of the planet.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
Oh dear god, NO.
Trust me, you don't WANT to know anything about "Dr" Reed and his ridiculous papier-machier alien wrapped in tinfoil. I can't believe there's a portion of my brain wasted on this jackass, I'd give anything to have those synapses back...
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
This made me laugh. In fact, I'm still giggling.
---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------
I feel that way every time I wake with a hangover.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
That seems reasonable. Wouldn't it also be likely that some sort of 'control' structure attached to the government/military would have to be in place? It doesn't seem to do any good for the government/military to hide the information from the public if they make it inaccessible to themselves as well.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
I'm sure that because you read it on the internet it has to be for real. And are you saying we're brain-washed, or that we are part of the brain-washers? Strange post.
ArchieBedford
Partly experienced
Bingo - possibly the most succinct and literate summing-up of the situation in a thread generally characterised by intelligence and insight.
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
I think this is the chief problem with compartmentalization of information. For instance, when the CIA's clandestine support staff in the TSD (Technical Services Divison) were asked to create a piece of spy gear in the early years of the agency, there were not given mission specifics. Instead, they where given a rough specification from a field officer that was not technically inclined. Conversely, the technician had little or no concept of how tradecraft was employed in the field. Operational security demanded that these and other measures be taken as to limit the threat of discovery. Unfortunately, the direct impact of these OpSec requirements translated into a very high technical failure rate in critical areas such as design, concealment, deployment procedures, and operational flexibility.
Thus, the CIA leadership, being privy to all aspects of the covert operations themselves, decided to deploy technicians to the field to operate in a support capacity. The idea was that this would improve the intelligence take by allowing the techs to build mission specific applications. Though they were often not privy to the the outcomes or reasons for the parts they played they were, by necessity, given a much broader visibility into the operational goals. They went from something like 70% failure rate to an over 98% success rate. All this by allowing field engineers or tech savvy operatives to build devices themselves or communicate mission specific requirements to scientists, engineers, and lab technicians back in Langley. That success rate came at the cost of decreased operational security and compartmentalization of information. But, it showed what greater visibility can accomplish.
If we postulate that the collective government agencies and/or select corporations do indeed have information or technology from craft from wherever I think you have conclude that lessons learned in other situations, like my story above, would validate the necessity of a sort of governing body. I thikn you can also conclude that while they may not have granular level understanding they would be privy to most details in order to make determinations for policies and procedures, set research and development goals, and do other project management tasks.
jtaylor
Skilled Investigator
I saw the episode of "Fact or Faked" and they basically called him out and made him look like a douchbag. Awsome!
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
You have to wonder what Reed/Rutter thought would happen. I guess he has enough folks believing him that he thought he could B.S. those guys. For a real hoot look up "Reed demonstrates alien technology" on youTube.
Kandinsky
Curious Cat
Man, Rutter's running on an IQ close to his waistband. He's cunning and conniving, but only in the way Homer Simpson is. He stumbles from one comedy pratfall to another without the intelligence or self-awareness to realise he's way down the IQ bell-curve from the people he tries to con. There's an old Simpson's show where a bunch of them get stuck in a hole and Homer says, "We'll dig our way out!"
The YT video is a cringeworthy trainwreck of a man losing his dignity and not even having the sense to know why.
Charles Swenson
Cthonic Charlie, Chronic Curmudgeon
The nature of released files, as well as the released FBI files
This does assume that there is a monolithic government agency with all those files, perhaps even reflecting a monolithic government opinion about what's going on. But as any one knows, the federal government and all it's various branches are perhaps as fragmented as the ufological community, and perhaps with as widely divergent a number of opinions as to what is going on.
Also the opinion of what is going on with UFOs, as refected in various Estimates of the Situation, is undergoing ongoing evolution as well. This much can be discerned from what documents are currently available, especially evident in the late '40s and '50s.
This also presupposes that all relevant documents are available. Ruppelt, in the late '50s, tells of his attempt to go back over the Mantell files and discovery that portions of the microfilm were no longer readable even then. Anyone who has ever had the misfortune to try to use microfilm realizes it's downside as an archival material, even though it was the wave of the future for way too many years.
For a view of just how difficult it can be to deal with microfilmed materials, as well to get an idea of the variety of opinions and volume of documents out there, try looking at the UFO files released by the FBI to ameliorate the ever growing number of FOIA requests they were inundated with. They can be found on an official FBI website, here.
And who knows how many files are out there that were generated simply for the purpose of disinformation, a la Bennewitz and the MJ12/Aquarius files, to say nothing of files that can perhaps legitimately be classified due to national security matters, whatever that means.
Cthonic Charlie, the Cataloging Curmudgeon
This does assume that there is a monolithic government agency with all those files, perhaps even reflecting a monolithic government opinion about what's going on. But as any one knows, the federal government and all it's various branches are perhaps as fragmented as the ufological community, and perhaps with as widely divergent a number of opinions as to what is going on.
Also the opinion of what is going on with UFOs, as refected in various Estimates of the Situation, is undergoing ongoing evolution as well. This much can be discerned from what documents are currently available, especially evident in the late '40s and '50s.
This also presupposes that all relevant documents are available. Ruppelt, in the late '50s, tells of his attempt to go back over the Mantell files and discovery that portions of the microfilm were no longer readable even then. Anyone who has ever had the misfortune to try to use microfilm realizes it's downside as an archival material, even though it was the wave of the future for way too many years.
For a view of just how difficult it can be to deal with microfilmed materials, as well to get an idea of the variety of opinions and volume of documents out there, try looking at the UFO files released by the FBI to ameliorate the ever growing number of FOIA requests they were inundated with. They can be found on an official FBI website, here.
And who knows how many files are out there that were generated simply for the purpose of disinformation, a la Bennewitz and the MJ12/Aquarius files, to say nothing of files that can perhaps legitimately be classified due to national security matters, whatever that means.
Cthonic Charlie, the Cataloging Curmudgeon
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
The nature of released files, as well as the released FBI files
You also have to factor in that personnel within these agencies change over time and therefore opinion and enactment of policy changes along with that. If Redfern's Final Events is any indication, there can be wildly irrational and radical views held by certain groups based on their personal religious beliefs. Certainly the political viewpoints and world views of the people in those agencies have an impact on how the UFO problem is managed over time. There may be some overarching UFO Doctrine that governs how various agencies and branches of the military view and manage information about UFOs. It seems like there would be some attempt at that. But even that seems like it would be subject to personnel changes.
You also have to factor in that personnel within these agencies change over time and therefore opinion and enactment of policy changes along with that. If Redfern's Final Events is any indication, there can be wildly irrational and radical views held by certain groups based on their personal religious beliefs. Certainly the political viewpoints and world views of the people in those agencies have an impact on how the UFO problem is managed over time. There may be some overarching UFO Doctrine that governs how various agencies and branches of the military view and manage information about UFOs. It seems like there would be some attempt at that. But even that seems like it would be subject to personnel changes.
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
Disclosure is a pipe dream man
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
It's a religious movement. You have to have some "faith" that the government has something to actually disclose, that they would be truthful if they did, and that they actually know the truth themselves. The people promoting Disclosure have already decided what the government knows but aren't telling. Does that make any sense whatsoever?
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
Yes these disclosure mob think they hold all the answers and sounds like science as well
ennethouse
Ennet House
There seems to be a lot of comment concerning disclosure that deals with the who, when and how of this topic, but can anyone please tell me, WHY? Why would a government, any government, suddenly come clean about something that they (if it is true that they hold alien information or technology or both) have been lying about for over 50 years? What possible benefit would there be in disclosing this information?
jtaylor
Skilled Investigator
In my opinion, there is NO WAY they would.....unless forced to do so, say by Wikileaks or (I hate this term) by landing on the whitehouse lawn. But, I dont belive it will ever happen tho I would love it to happen. I think the good, honest researchers who have spent a lifetime trying to figure out what is going on deserve to get an answer for all the hard work they have done. Just as I write this Assange is free on bail.
Walter Bosley
Paranormal Adept
Regarding USG access to data they may have handed over to a private custodial concern, I assumed it went without saying that of course the USG would still have access to it...