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Closed Threads


Besides we can also close a thread for no reason at all, other than that it's run its course.

Aren't there more important things in life to dwell on?

Gene hit the nail on the head. Currently I am writing a critique about the aftermath of the Imbrogno affair. If you have not been paying attention, the "long knives" have come out and many are directed right here at The Paracast, and a number of us that are associated with that story. We do not need the internecine fighting and backstabbing so prevalent on other sites. Time to chill people, enough people don't like us simply because ... hell, they don't like us.

Decker
 
Pixelsmith, why is it that anytime a moderator closes a thread you call them a nazi? We have a set of rules we follow, and if we see it fit to close a thread, we do so. Move on.

ever see the Soup Nazi skit? watch it sometime.

yes you have a set of rules and we users AND you mods break them all the time.

If Ron wants to call me an ignorant ass, I am fine with it. I have been called worse by other Mods here. If he was truly offended I will openly apologize to him right here.

I was getting very interested in the qigong thread, there were valid points from both sides.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------

Depends on the topic, and I'll grant my moderating team full discretion to decide when or if a thread needs to be closed.

As well you should. This group of Mods are the best ever.
 
ever see the Soup Nazi skit? watch it sometime.

yes you have a set of rules and we users AND you mods break them all the time.

If Ron wants to call me an ignorant ass, I am fine with it. I have been called worse by other Mods here. If he was truly offended I will openly apologize to him right here.

I was getting very interested in the qigong thread, there were valid points from both sides.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------



As well you should. This group of Mods are the best ever.

Of course I've seen that episode, and I get what you were saying. I'm trying to say that we don't even meet that definition of Nazi - that guy was much more difficult. If we were closing threads left and right, I would understand. However, I think I've closed 2 or 3 threads since I became a moderator.

Thanks for the compliment by the way!
 
Perhaps I took it too personally. I did not get the "Soup Nazi" parallell and would agree with Angelo that it really wouldn't apply anyway.

Pixelsmith I will accept your apology. I was very offended. I'll also apologize for my harsh words. I probably should not have responded that way.
 
I was very concerned with the closing of one particular thread, but after finally looking through the information presented, I have to agree with the decision. It was more info-mercial than anything else, and it was full of hokum woo-woo.
 
like ETs UFOs and ghosts? lol.... thats why we are here.

Gene it is your house, you can do anything you want, I felt that topic was just getting started and it closed instead.

Maybe it was just me - but it appeared that Drew Hempel was more about promoting himself and his beliefs than inspiring legitimate inquiry. Hemplemania. If you think that's unfair -type in Drew Hempel, pull the trigger, and then take a jog around the ol' intrawebz and see what I mean.

Pixel -it seems you're the type of dude who'd react to the sun coming up.
 
Perhaps I took it too personally. I did not get the "Soup Nazi" parallell and would agree with Angelo that it really wouldn't apply anyway.

Pixelsmith I will accept your apology. I was very offended. I'll also apologize for my harsh words. I probably should not have responded that way.

Thanks Ron. no biggy. I have been here as long as Gene so I have been here for EVERY thread that closed. The current Mods are very good at letting threads run their course, usually. Thanks for understanding my frustration.
 
Thanks Ron. no biggy. I have been here as long as Gene so I have been here for EVERY thread that closed. The current Mods are very good at letting threads run their course, usually. Thanks for understanding my frustration.

pixelsmith I'm glad to hear you were actually interested in discussing the evidence in my thread instead of going with the "mob mentality" of ad hominems against me -- i.e. continual claims that I was selling something -- which the term "infomercial" erroneously implies -- and claiming that I just promote myself. haha. If I'm not selling anything then I'm not sure what "promoting" myself implies. It is true that I use my real name on the internet and for the past ten years I have made my research available for open criticism. I think the real issue -- the deeper issue -- about the qigong thread here at theparacast is that if consciousness is immaterial then how can people charge money for its effects? In other words there's no material way to really measure the efficacy of consciousness if say the healer doesn't really transmit energy, etc. I think that was the real issue going on in the thread -- and it is a fascinating issue about the role of money and the materialist philosophy.

Yes, I agree with Gene, the thread had "run its course" -- and what a course it ran! haha.
 
pixelsmith I'm glad to hear you were actually interested in discussing the evidence in my thread instead of going with the "mob mentality" of ad hominems against me -- i.e. continual claims that I was selling something -- which the term "infomercial" erroneously implies -- and claiming that I just promote myself. haha. If I'm not selling anything then I'm not sure what "promoting" myself implies. It is true that I use my real name on the internet and for the past ten years I have made my research available for open criticism. I think the real issue -- the deeper issue -- about the qigong thread here at theparacast is that if consciousness is immaterial then how can people charge money for its effects? In other words there's no material way to really measure the efficacy of consciousness if say the healer doesn't really transmit energy, etc. I think that was the real issue going on in the thread -- and it is a fascinating issue about the role of money and the materialist philosophy.

Yes, I agree with Gene, the thread had "run its course" -- and what a course it ran! haha.

Even tho I know very little about the subject I will disagree with you and Gene about the thread having run its course. Thats a lot like saying "the debate is over" or "consensus says". When I hear those statements I am pretty sure it is FAR FAR from over. All things are rarely as they seem.
 
Even tho I know very little about the subject I will disagree with you and Gene about the thread having run its course. Thats a lot like saying "the debate is over" or "consensus says". When I hear those statements I am pretty sure it is FAR FAR from over. All things are rarely as they seem.

I like theparacast and I find peoples' reactions to qigong to be fascinating. It's obviously a very sensitive subject and there's no point in me repeating myself if no one has anything substantial to say about the topic. It's true that someone who is "evangelizing" is a pest but then again I didn't think I could find a forum more pertinent to the subject matter. haha. To be honest there are a ton of fakes in the New Age scene but if a person does discover the real deal then it is extremely powerful. So most people are not ready for the real deal because it is a completely life changing experience. So I definitely appreciate your interest and since you are in Minnesota then you can really experience the real deal if you want -- more easily than others. I've had friends who have taken the classes with Chunyi Lin at my encouragement and they definitely had wild experiences. Unless someone does the training and meets a real energy master then they can't even imagine what the experiences are like -- even before any advanced training is reached. So that's why trying to discuss the qigong issues and the research on a public forum -- even a forum for paranormal issues -- is just too intense for people. Of course I'm available for further discussions on my blog -- people post their criticisms there all the time. Believe me I would love to share more information - I have tons of details (my book has 720 scholarly references)-- but it would be off topic for this forum. haha.
 
I think the real issue -- the deeper issue -- about the qigong thread here at theparacast is that if consciousness is immaterial then how can people charge money for its effects?

NOT The issue, Drew, but one issue for sure - as this process has been going on since the dawn of time, i.e. people claiming to have special insight into the origins and movements of consciousness; soul; spirt; psyche; packaging it, finding (transforming persons into =) 'believers' and then charging for it -many times over and sometimes at the cost of the believer's life. The claim to special insight for the individual may be tempered and supported by a genuine feeling of knowing, and a great variety of other self-validating insights/delusions; however these issues usually boil down to how the psyche deals with the subject/object relationship, and with death -i.e. see Earnest Becker's The Denial of Death which focuses on his argument that the primary directive of culture is too support a populations death-denying illusions, Religion and superstition (i.e. those conduits proclaiming insight into the movements of spirit and consciousness) being an integral player in this meta-process of transference and countertransference.

No, I think the real issue is you don't seem to understand how your words and actions correlate to a number of people on the forum getting the impression that you're trying to sell yourself (which can happen at the very same time you effort to promote a belief), as opposed to engage in legitimate inquiry. And if you feel I am overstating my perception of the what the general consensus here is, well then I am willing to take repsonsiblity for the impression I was left with, because it certainly seems this way to me.

Of course I'm available for further discussions on my blog -- people post their criticisms there all the time. Believe me I would love to share more information - I have tons of details (my book has 720 scholarly references)-- but it would be off topic for this forum. haha.

How in the hell could I have gotten that impression?

Or maybe you're right Drew, the subject matter is just too intense. Umm, yeah. Anyone want to take the baton and run with that notion?
 
NOT The issue, Drew, but one issue for sure - as this process has been going on since the dawn of time, i.e. people claiming to have special insight into the origins and movements of consciousness; soul; spirt; psyche; packaging it, finding (transforming persons into =) 'believers' and then charging for it -many times over and sometimes at the cost of the believer's life. The claim to special insight for the individual may be tempered and supported by a genuine feeling of knowing, and a great variety of other self-validating insights/delusions; however these issues usually boil down to how the psyche deals with the subject/object relationship, and with death -i.e. see Earnest Becker's The Denial of Death which focuses on his argument that the primary directive of culture is too support a populations death-denying illusions, Religion and superstition (i.e. those conduits proclaiming insight into the movements of spirit and consciousness) being an integral player in this meta-process of transference and countertransference.

No, I think the real issue is you don't seem to understand how your words and actions correlate to a number of people on the forum getting the impression that you're trying to sell yourself (which can happen at the very same time you effort to promote a belief), as opposed to engage in legitimate inquiry. And if you feel I am overstating my perception of the what the general consensus here is, well then I am willing to take repsonsiblity for the impression I was left with, because it certainly seems this way to me.



How in the hell could I have gotten that impression?

Or maybe you're right Drew, the subject matter is just too intense. Umm, yeah. Anyone want to take the baton and run with that notion?

Actually Chunyi Lin's book is called Born A Healer because his message is that everyone has these healing abilities. I've read Becker's book but the subject matter here is non-western philosophy. Chunyi Lin says you don't have to believe anything -- just do the practices. Actually in terms of logic, consciousness is based on inference -- you infer consciousness as the source of the I-thought. Which again means no belief is necessary. So everyone has an I-thought. Logically a person can ask where does it come from. This can be done by repeating I-I-I -- not as a meaningless mantra but as a means to pursue the source of the I-thought. The I-thought is the foundation for all other language. Even Noam Chomsky says that if humans didn't have I-language then humans could develop the perception skills of other animals -- i.e. electric fish with their "quasi telepathy" as science calls it -- or rats detecting x-rays, etc. Yeah my book does go into more details -- again the 720 plus references I have which is solid evidence I'm focused on learning from other peoples' work.

So the Western New Age scene -- and any evangelical religion -- is based on belief, on breaking someone's will be making them repeat specific phrases, etc. Qigong is a mind-body practice as a technique and, again, I've traced this technique back to the Bushmen Khoisan -- the original human culture for 90% of human history, 100,000 BCE to 10,000 BCE. The results are a permanent psycho-physiological transformation. It has nothing to do with words which the Buddhists call "conceptual consciousness" -- the 6th level of consciousness. Words are important, of course, but the intention behind the words is what counts.

If theparacast has any other topic with three "gold standard" peer-reviewed, randomized controlled science studies documenting its existence -- be it UFOs, ghosts, etc. I would love to hear about it. haha. Science has proven paranormal powers through qigong research -- the reason no one hears about this is because qigong is too intense.

Oh and I hope people relish the irony that if I refer to my book or my blog it's only because on theparacast forum I received ad hominem attacks ad naseum -- there were about half a dozen claims I was trying to sell something -- 1 pm asking if I was going to -- in the future -- ask for a solicitation, 1 "peddling" claim, 1 infomercial claim, 1 "hard sell" claim, 1 "pay the price of admission" claim. Then there was the ad hominem attack against the Mayo Clinic, i.e. because it's prestigious therefore it's just name dropping and therefore the peer-reviewed, randomized controlled research is not valid. haha. Actually the contrary standard applies as I pointed out. Then there was the ad hominem attack against the testimonials of those healed by qigong: They must be paid actors. Again the local news covered their stories, they give full names, etc. There's no evidence that they're paid actors -- so it's an accusation without any evidence.

Now all that is fine and dandy -- if people want to rely on ad hominems -- by all means. Except of course if you're moderating a thread you would normally step in a say "no ad hominems" --- but not on theparacast! Oh no. The ad hominems were encouraged and practiced by the moderators.

So the irony of claiming that if I refer to my book or blog I'm promoting myself is too much to relish. First of all the internet should be an open free exchange of information -- that's not "promoting" -- the book, factually, has, again hundreds of scholarly references referring to other people's work. This can be confirmed by a free download. So it makes theparacast look like a cult when people freak out if someone refers to a book or blog that is outside the framework of theparacast forums. Secondly besides the ad hominems if there's insinuations that I should not be allowed to post information on the forum -- of which there were several on the thread -- then obviously my blog enables a backup for further discussion of the topic at hand. So if I'm not allowed to present the evidence on theparacast forum and then I refer people to my blog -- and then it's claimed that if I refer to my blog I'm "promoting" myself -- that is hilariously myopic.

If people want to hide out on theparacast forum, pretending that three gold-standard peer-reviewed randomized controlled studies proving paranormal powers exist are not real -- are a figment of my imagination -- then go right ahead and all I can do is enjoy the hilarity of it all.
 
Even tho I know very little about the subject I will disagree with you and Gene about the thread having run its course. Thats a lot like saying "the debate is over" or "consensus says". When I hear those statements I am pretty sure it is FAR FAR from over. All things are rarely as they seem.

Theparacast -- where "gold standard" research gets ignored and cast aside. haha. This is hilarious! Three Gold Standard (randomized controlled peer-reviewed) studies proving qigong is real and efficacious and what does theparacast forum do? Freak out! haha.
 
Why doesn't the "MODERATORS" on this forum take my advice and do what they did in the "old school" boards and such?

I will repeat it once again here.

1. Anytime a Mod finds something he or she is "personally in conflict with" or might have an "opinion" or something to post on which in and of itself is nothing more than that...an opinion or a conflict, then he or she should USE ANOTHER NON MOD ID and actually post his or her reply.

2. When there is in fact an abuse or problem with a member which conflicts with the forum or its rules, THEN and only THEN does a Moderator use his Moderator "HAT" and reply with disciplinary or moderation as that ID on the forum.

What you are doing in this case is actually showing the difference between how you feel as a member of the forum, and what is necessary in your capacity as Moderator in order to keep the board flowing.

This doesn't take a terrible amount of effort to utilize, and will make it loads easier for members to handle.
 
Drew,

I doubt the study you keep referring to "proves" qigong's existence. What it shows is the wonderful power of the mind and expands on the placebo effect. You are taking a result of one study aimed at investigating alternative mechanisms for coping with pain and using it to validate your religious belief. That is a tenuous if not dubious connection. If you want to have a debate about this, thats fine. But you come off as a guy trying to sell something. We have seen our share of New Age enlightenment peddlers here and it is not tolerated. Perception is often colored by delivery. If you want to alter the perceptions of what you are here to do then I suggest you alter your delivery.


Para..... for the 9 billionth time.... I DONT WANT TO DO THAT. This stuff already takes enough of my time and switching between accounts keeping 2 identities and whatnot is cumbersome. Things are different everywhere. Here I can post and moderate in the same name. Thats how it is.
 
I'll say this one more time with feeling. I lobbied to have the qigong thread closed and I wasn't the only one. The moderators were reluctant to do so and only closed it after repeated said complaints. I admit to having strong personal prejudice against magic healing power claims. Right or wrong, that is the truth of the situation. Perhaps I should have just kept my mouth shut and kept out of the thread. However, as I've alluded to, my personal experience of seeing the emotions of victims of chronic disease and their families manipulated by healers and alternative medicine promoters caused a visceral emotional reaction in me. Anyone with much experience could look at some of the MS sufferers giving their qigong testimonies and see they were still suffering from the neurological damage caused by MS. In relapsing/remitting MS patients can appear to respond to a given treatment at first blush only to experience the more often than not, greater magnitude relapse some time after.
 
One thing I gues we all forget sometime is the effect our words and flip attitudes might have on another. Trained has reminded me of this with his response. To me this was no big deal. Just another "Hey look at me and buy this" post. But, he has a personal interest and as he said, right or wrong it had a personal effect. Drew indeed may believe everything he says and I agree that if he "changes" the delievery somewhat then we can have or the ones of you who want to, can have a good discussion of it. Sometime when we knock somebodies faith and call it silly, we don't realize that the only thing that keeps them going is their faith. Sometime when we champion a new age technique, we don't realise that somebody else lost a loved one to a charlatan or religous poser. It's hard on the web to pick up the subtle clues and feelings of posters. I try to treat everybody with respect until they don't let me. Then I can get as snarky as anybody else. But, this subject just didn't resonate with me one way or the other. Still doesn't but I think it can be discussed civily. Just leave off some of the "zowy, wowy, ya oughta buy this" and talk a little bit. I know that I for one don't follow every link posted down every rabbit hole. I am more moved by how "you" feel than how many testimonials you use. But, to each his/her own. Peace. :cool:
 
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