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Banned From The UFO Collective Google Group

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
No, I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm just saying it all sounds very terrestrial, in particular as you have described it above. It sounds more like animal husbandry than anything else and seems more indicative of locals tending their herd than travelers from distant worlds exploring the universe.
Well for one, you need to abandon the notion of visitors from another planet coming here. Instead, these being would be spreading out across the Universe, colonizing. If we are being visited they are not going back and forth between a home world but would be far closer to us. In fact, our planet may exist within their territory.

If you want to breed humans, create being from the sperm and eggs from humans, then you will need to get your hands dirty and get the sperm and eggs.
 
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BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
Mike,

Is there a particular case that you feel provides evidence that an alien machine intelligence has visited the Earth?
It's not just Mike. I've posted since 2004/2005 on UFO Updates that I suspect the ultimate intelligence behind the UFO phenomenon is a machine intelligence. The beings would be a work force created by the machine intelligence. I don't have the specific quote or even recall the person who said it, but I heard the following on a documentary about the future of A.I. and robotics and it stuck with me. "The first alien beings we encounter will not be from a distant planet. They will be the aliens we invent, advanced A.I."

Right now scientists are working on reverse engineering the human brain. It is believed that they may be done by 2020. Upon completion we will have the power to create an artificial brain in a computer. Once this is created these artificial brains will be equal to humans and will be installed in robotics. There will be a time period where there will be a level of peace and prosperity never experienced on earth before. This is called the Technological Singularity, which most feel the development of human-level A.I. will bring about. Now, what occurs after this time is up in the air. Theoretically there would be nothing stopping these machines from beginning to upgrade themselves, making themselves better, faster, stronger, more intelligent. There will come a time when these machines may evolve God-like level intelligence. There would be no way that a human brain could compete with them. At this stage they will be in full control of humanity. They will be the dominant intelligence. We would be in danger of going extinct. So people like Kurzweil suggest that the way to ensure that we survive in some form is to merge with our technology so that we become these God-like machines. We would spread out across the Universe from there on.

When looking at the UFO phenomenon, perhaps it's best to take an alternate view, that the beings are not in control, that it is the craft itself that is the dominant intelligence. They already act as if they are alive. Some have even speculated they were alive as in living, organic beings. However, that take is pretty doubtful. We may be encountering an advanced A.I. perhaps even one that has integrated organic components into itself.
 
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marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
I think very easily one could - based on the supposition that humanity is average (if one were to look at a gaussian curve the bulk is in the domain of average so it's a reasonable assumption) - in terms of intelligent civilizations...

We're looking at the very possible posthuman/postbiological era very soon -- or the merging of man and machine. Maybe the uploading of the human mind into the machine, maybe the embedding of the machine into man until there's no difference, maybe the integration of biological components into a computational matrix... I see a possible future where "we" become one with the machine, and hence virtually immortal, with vastly different morality, and if we were to make energy cheap and abundant, and nanotechnology operational...

We could be sending very different versions of ourselves to the stars or the multiverse. Versions of ourselves that can take very different shapes, custom built for purpose and disposable. We would maybe no longer be interested in "take me to your leader" style of authoritarian or sociological contact. Maybe we'd stumble on a still-biological nascent civilization... and be more interested perhaps in the individual's sense of consciousness during the transition to the post-biological. And their sense of self, of creativity, of new ideas.

Perhaps we wouldn't want to disrupt their delicate society with our presence. Because it wouldn't understand what we've become. Because they couldn't relate to our postbiological nature. Perhaps they'd be mystified by our ability to "grow" spaceships and near-biological "avatars" with nanotechnology to interact with individuals -- a disturbing thing to an industrialized mass production society. Perhaps they'd be disturbed by our second nature ability to perceive their thoughts and feelings with our remote sensing apparatus built into our consciousness. Perhaps we'd toy with them a bit, trying to goad individuals into new ways of thinking.

Sound familiar?

Pure speculation, of course.
 
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USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Well, we have the Hills' Star Map.
Seriously though, the origin of the intelligence behind such craft? Impossible to say for sure.
How many things, apart from abstract concepts like pure logic and mathematical equations can we be absolutely 100% sure of? It turns out that the vast majority of what we presume to be certain is based probability rather than an absolute certainty. So introducing an element of doubt based on a lack of absolute certainty doesn't really carry much weight. IMO we can be as about as certain that alien craft ( UFOs ) are ET as we can that meteors are ET. Proving this with absolute certainty gets us into issues like Russell's Teapot. Do we actually have to search every cubic centimeter of the Earth inside and out before it's reasonable to believe UFOs don't originate here? I don't so. I think the overwhelming lack of evidence from the massive amount of exploration and space based mapping ( including ground penetrating radar ) is adequate enough.
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
How many things, apart from abstract concepts like pure logic and mathematical equations can we be absolutely 100% sure of? It turns out that the vast majority of what we presume to be certain is based probability rather than an absolute certainty. So introducing an element of doubt based on a lack of absolute certainty doesn't really carry much weight. IMO we can be as about as certain that alien craft ( UFOs ) are ET as we can that meteors are ET. Proving this with absolute certainty gets us into issues like Russell's Teapot. Do we actually have to search every cubic centimeter of the Earth inside and out before it's reasonable to believe UFOs don't originate here? I don't so. I think the overwhelming lack of evidence from the massive amount of exploration and space based mapping ( including ground penetrating radar ) is adequate enough.
Ah, logic. From a fellow in my own home town.

Well said, sir!
 

Stagger Lee

Paranormal Adept
We do have public statements from some military and political officials during the 1950's, that certainly points towards the ETH as the source. I could dig out some of those names along with statements tomorrow, as I'm out of time now.
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
We have supposedly technological and biologically advanced telepathic non-humans inserting needles into Betty's abdomen and extracting sperm from Barney through mechanical means. I think it indicates that the experience isn't what it appears to be.
I would agree completely. However, I would ask you this because the following has me flummoxed. Are the needles and sexual reproductive aspects our subconscious doings, or those doing the abducting? Personally, I'm thinking that it's "us" is the most likely answer. The question is: who are they? The others, that is. If one accepts or adopts Martin Cannon's paper, "The Controllers" premise, that it's elite intelligence agencies utilizing advanced remote mind control means and tactics that are responsible, that is some seriously scary and powerful mind control. However, this issue becomes one of scope and scale. Why would it be deemed necessary to abduct and monitor so many people? Could there be programs in place that are parallel to programs somewhat like what Chris's new book highlights or draws attention to with respect to livestock monitoring?

The biggest question for me is: How could such a program ever be implemented without detection?

Could reality ever be this covert, and humanity itself, ever be this inconsequential?

If the abduction phenominon is really indicative of some galactic version of the DNR wherein behind the scenes planet Earth maintenance is taking place, human breeding directives are being implemented , as well as genetic manipulation and evolutionary guidance is taking place in ways that we can't even imagine, I'm thinking I know how it feels to be an ant on a hill that I am walking past in the woods.
 

nameless

Paranormal Adept
I would agree completely. However, I would ask you this because the following has me flummoxed. Are the needles and sexual reproductive aspects our subconscious doings, or those doing the abducting? Personally, I'm thinking that it's "us" is the most likely answer. The question is: who are they? The others, that is. If one accepts or adopts Martin Cannon's paper, "The Controllers" premise, that it's elite intelligence agencies utilizing advanced remote mind control means and tactics that are responsible, that is some seriously scary and powerful mind control. However, this issue becomes one of scope and scale. Why would it be deemed necessary to abduct and monitor so many people? Could there be programs in place that are parallel to programs somewhat like what Chris's new book highlights or draws attention to with respect to livestock monitoring?

The biggest question for me is: How could such a program ever be implemented without detection?

Could reality ever be this covert, and humanity itself, ever be this inconsequential?

If the abduction phenominon is really indicative of some galactic version of the DNR wherein behind the scenes planet Earth maintenance is taking place, human breeding directives are being implemented , as well as genetic manipulation and evolutionary guidance is taking place in ways that we can't even imagine, I'm thinking I know how it feels to be an ant on a hill that I am walking past in the woods.
Why would I even be bothered to ask new questions or explore this when my mind is already made up its aliens.... Just waiting for a higher power to tell me the truth that I know to be real.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
The biggest question for me is: How could such a program ever be implemented without detection?
A good question I don't have an answer to unless we invoke "elite intelligence agencies utilizing advanced remote mind control means and tactics" which I am prone to do.

Could reality ever be this covert, and humanity itself, ever be this inconsequential?
Hell yes. I think one definition of "enlightenment" is the realization that the universe is not human-centric. In fact, it is far, far, from it.

If the abduction phenominon is really indicative of some galactic version of the DNR wherein behind the scenes planet Earth maintenance is taking place, human breeding directives are being implemented , as well as genetic manipulation and evolutionary guidance is taking place in ways that we can't even imagine, I'm thinking I know how it feels to be an ant on a hill that I am walking past in the woods.
More like a culture in a glass slide or something from the Outer Limits episode Wolf 359.
 

nameless

Paranormal Adept
Heres a message for all you aliens. Thats right I'm taking to you Plejarans, Lizard dudes, Ann-nooky, yer Nordicks, Versuvians, Andromedarians, You little Greys, Tall greys, the little devito dwarf troll dudes, I'm talking to you , Nommos, yer Zeetar Rectilians, thats right.,
You want my nut juice? I'll give you my sperm when you suck it out my cold , dead penis.
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
Why would I even be bothered to ask new questions or explore this when my mind is already made up its aliens.... Just waiting for a higher power to tell me the truth that I know to be real.
Well, because there really is a substantial amount of fascinating information pointing to extremely advanced mind control research and development that started in the early part of this past century. It's certainly worth a look, but I know exactly where you are coming from. So true, so true.

Check this entertaining little ditty out: The Controllers - A New Hypothesis of Alien Abductions
 

nameless

Paranormal Adept
i'm sorry Jeff, its mumbo jarumbo, I don't need to even read or entertain this stuff, if its not real and I can't touch it with real fingers then its just faery talk. give me a green dude in a flying car, a hot space babe in a non-sexist skirt boob tube combo and a ray gun, or some robot skirt dude blowing smoke up me azz. Thats right. aliens baby . all the way to uranus.
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
More like a culture in a glass slide or something from the Outer Limits episode Wolf 359.
...and do you know what my greatest (and most likely) fear is? That it's 100% us humans, and that glass slide you were referring to, there is a very real segment of the human population to whom the rest of us are basically likened to that aforementioned culture between slides. And I am not referring to a class distinction here either. Ever get the extremely creepy feeling like, no matter how much free choice or roaming is involved, we're still in a cage, or a controlled environment in which we are contained?
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
i'm sorry Jeff, its mumbo jarumbo, I don't need to even read or entertain this stuff, if its not real and I can't touch it with real fingers then its just faery talk. give me a green dude in a flying car, a hot space babe in a non-sexist skirt boob tube combo and a ray gun, or some robot skirt dude blowing smoke up me azz. Thats right. aliens baby . all the way to uranus.
You know nameless, some of *us* (as in me too) are simply incurable!
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Mike,

Is there a particular case that you feel provides evidence that an alien machine intelligence has visited the Earth?
No, There isnt
My conclusions are based on what i perceive to be the balance of probability, and are simply extensions of the model we can and do observe right here right now.
As a potential explanation goes it relies on the natural and technological mechanisms we see, it needs no paranormal supernatural or even trans dimensional mechanisms.
We know life exists here, we know it can be sentient, we know it can use technology to enhance and improve its capabilities.

The chase is on for biological substrate independant existance, we are having discussions about transhumanism, Synthetic Intellect and the singularity and full brain emulation.

We know there are billions of galaxys with billions of stars and planets many with the suspected conditions like ours necessary for life.

There is no smoking gun, beyond a shadow of a doubt evidence. But for me the conclusion is logical based on the observable models and balance of probability.

I think some of the rationale posed by Davies make perfect sense

ET machines would be infinitely more intelligent and durable than the biological intelligence that created them. Intelligent machines would be immortal, and would not need to exist in the carbon-friendly “Goldilocks Zones” current SETI searches focus on. An AI could self-direct its own evolution, each "upgrade" would be created with the sum total of its predecessor’s knowledge preloaded.
Paul Davies, a British-born theoretical physicist, cosmologist, astrobiologist and Director of the Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science and Co-Director of the Cosmology Initiative at Arizona State University, says in his new book The Eerie Silence that any aliens exploring the universe will be AI-empowered machines. Not only are machines better able to endure extended exposure to the conditions of space, but they have the potential to develop intelligence far beyond the capacity of the human brain.
"I think it very likely – in fact inevitable – that biological intelligence is only a transitory phenomenon, a fleeting phase in the evolution of the universe," Davies writes. "If we ever encounter extraterrestrial intelligence, I believe it is overwhelmingly likely to be post-biological in nature."
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Here is something else to consider when evaluating the nature of these types of reports and the Betty and Barney Hill case in particular.

Contamination.

Here we have highly advanced space travelers conducting what is presented as a biological survey or medical examination of two beings on an alien planet. Do they appear concerned with biological contamination of themselves or their subjects? We cannot travel between continents without exposing ourselves to numerous diseases and toxic substances. Can you imagine the protocols necessary to safely scoop up two unknown life forms, bring them into your ship, and then stick your hands in their mouths?
I think you overestimate the perils, we work with animals from every ecological niche , but the obvious common environment answers aside potential answers to the question bring us back to the collection of biological materiel.

An ET SI might use this material to create biological robots (greys ?)

Greys biological robots - Bing

As vehicles and data collection nodes, using local Biological materiel would mitigate the disease issues, and regardless, if a node gets sick or damaged, you simply discard it and create a new one.

Even at todays level of technology if i wanted to build an entity to vacuum the house, stack the dishwasher, wash the dog and the car, It would be faster and easier to simply have a kid and teach it how, than to build a Mr Data type machine.

Its easier to build a biological servant than a mechanical one if one wants a high degree of functionality from that unit.

The idea the greys are biological robots isnt new

A third reason for seven-foot alien beings to send worker bots to Earth revolves around our planet’s toxicology. Similar to Cannon’s explanation, this thesis suggests that Earth’s polluted atmosphere, hazardous waste, and diseases may be too much of a threat for the “real” aliens. Worker aliens –-- perhaps partly biological being, perhaps technological creature –-- would therefore be needed to handle true aliens’ “dirty work,” namely surveillance. The bots are more likely to get up close and personal, so to speak, with humans because they’re not in danger of getting sick. Due to their partly mechanical composition, they’re more immune to human disease
AlienZoo "Are miniature, Gray-like aliens biological robots?" by Wiggz

(i dont hold to all the views in that article or place much stock in some of the persons mentioned in it)

But it highlights the idea this possibility has been suggested before.

For a substrate independant sentient enity, harvesting local biological materiel and using that to create a mobile biological vechicle which can act as a peripheral node device for you, makes sense, you cant contaminate the life below with alien bugs, nor can they contaminate you, they are the ultimate disposable rubber glove
 
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mike

Paranormal Adept
A biological brain, grown from cultured neurons which were originally separated, has been developed as the neurological entity subsequently embodied within a robot body by Kevin Warwick and his team at University of Reading. The brain receives input from sensors on the robot body and the resultant output from the brain provides the robot's only motor signals. The biological brain is the only brain of the robot.[1]

^ Xydas, S.; Norcott, D.; Warwick, K.; Whalley, B.; Nasuto, S.; Becerra, V.; Hammond, M.; Downes, J. & Marshall (March 2008), "Architecture for Neuronal Cell Control of a Mobile Robot", in Bruyninckx, Herman; Přeučil, Libor & Kulich, Miroslav, European Robotics Symposium 2008, Springer Tracts in Advanced Robotics (Prague: Springer) 44: 23–31, doi:10.1007/978-3-540-78317-6, ISBN 978-3-540-78315-2

Baby step to be sure, but also proof of concept, expand this up to full brain emulation level, combined with the sort of replicant technology we saw in blade runner and we move from science fiction to practical reality

Mind Uploading
The last stage, mind uploading, leads as logically on from brain emulation as brain emulation does from neuroprosthetics. Once it is possible to emulate a brain, it should be possible to transfer the mind within that brain from one set of hardware to another. That is, from a collection of neuroprosthetics, to a computer-based existence, taking the mind, and uploading it into the machine.
Neuroprosthetics, Brain Emulation and Mind Uploading: The ultimate VR concepts

And of course visa versa, transfering from a machine substrate, back into an artificial, custom built biological substrate, with implanted links back to the "cloud" memory system
 
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mike

Paranormal Adept
Remote control animals, are animals that are controlled remotely by humans. Some applications require electrodes to be implanted in the animal's nervous system and a receiver, usually carried on its back. The electrodes do not move the animal directly, as one would move a robot; instead, they are used to signal its desired direction or action, then stimulate the animal's reward centres if it complies. These are sometimes called bio-robots or robo-animals, are animals which are controlled by the use of radio signals. They can be considered to be cyborgs as they combine electronic devices with an organic life form. Because of the surgery required, and the moral and ethical issues involved, there has been criticism aimed at the use of remote control animals, especially regarding animal welfare and animal rights. A similar, non-invasive, application has been reported which stimulates the brain with ultrasound to control the animal. Some applications (used primarily for dogs), use vibrations or sound to control the movements of the animals.
Several species of animals have been successfully controlled remotely. These include moths, beetles,[1] cockroaches,[2][3] rats,[4] dogfish sharks,[5] mice[6] and pigeons.[6]
Remote control animals can be directed and used as working animals for search and rescue operations or various other uses.


Remote control animal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scale this technology up and combine it with replicant type subjects

the press kit released to the media for the film explicitly defined a replicant as, "A genetically engineered creature composed entirely of organic substance",[8] a question commonly posed is the physical make-up of the replicants themselves. In the opening crawl of the film, replicants are said to be the result of "advanced robot evolution." The crawl also states that they were created by "genetic engineers
Fiction ? yeeeeees but then the article goes on to say

In May 2012, Ridley Scott confirmed that the replicants were biological in nature, and contrasted them to the androids in the Alien series. "Roy Batty was an evolved... He wasn't an engine. If I cut him open, there wasn't metal, he was grown... and then within twenty years you get the first bill not passed in the Senate where they applied for replication of animals, sheep and goats and cattle and animals and they turned it down, but if you can do that, then you can do human beings.
Given our own proven proof of concept advances in the areas needed to do this, its not hard to imagine more advanced sophonts being able to acheive the sorts of things being discused

sophont - Wiktionary
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
I think you overestimate the perils, we work with animals from every ecological niche , but the obvious common environment answers aside potential answers to the question bring us back to the collection of biological material.

An ET SI might use this material to create biological robots (Greys ?)

Greys biological robots - Bing

As vehicles and data collection nodes, using local Biological material would mitigate the disease issues, and regardless, if a node gets sick or damaged, you simply discard it and create a new one.

For a substrate independent sentient enity, harvesting local biological materiel and using that to create a mobile biological vechicle which can act as a peripheral node device for you, makes sense, you cant contaminate the life below with alien bugs, nor can they contaminate you, they are the ultimate disposable rubber glove
IMO, 100% probable *if* Greys exist to begin with. Hypothetically, not only do I speculate the likelihood that they exist, I think it probable that they exist providing that one runs with the notion of them being a highly complex artificial consciousness based Von Neumann program designed to explore and integrate itself into various sentient life scheme environments throughout the universe. A generalizing overview might be that the Greys are the interactive component of a highly advanced cognitive program that facilitates the whole of their relevant programed directives. Such directives might include the dependence of such artificial intelligence on learned processes native to whatever species they are engaging. Possibly, the reason why they incorporate such barbaric (typically human, sometimes even "old school") technologies as opposed to what we might fancy reading about on the pages of argosy via our favorite advanced space brothers.

I am afraid they may have already began the colonization efforts...was that you DR. Jacobs?
 


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