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Banned From The UFO Collective Google Group

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
I'm not sure that having CSICOP on his Facebook confirms any personal debunking stance of Koi's at all. One could argue that keeping your enemies closer than his close friends is all he's doing. I think anyone who is thoroughly engaged in the UFO phenonon will naturally seek out all skeptical inquiry as TO pointed out above. Sometimes I will look at the skeptical and debunking side of a story to see what other possible explanations there might be that i have not thought of, or sometimes I just like to have a really good laugh, and CSICOP can always provide that in a pinch. Koi's larger public profile, and his very actve pursuits in preserving ufological history, should be the more accurate indicator of his agenda.
Stop ignoring his behavior. He has the debunking groups as his interest. He allows debunkers to run amok on the list. He banned me for telling a debunker that I do not want to engange in a flame war with him. He actually complimented the debunker. Do you understad that? I'm not sure you do. It's not JUST that he has debunking groups as his interests on Facebook. His behavior is consistent with a debunker or at the very least with someone who favor the debunking position.

There is some type of disconnect here happening with folks.
 

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
Btw, @BoyintheMachine have you read any of Brookesmith's UFO books? He's also pretty far away from being a debunker if his books are anything to go on. Maybe he's just anti ETH? Both Clark and Vallee have taken opposite sides of the ETH debate over the years, taking pot shots at each other here and there, but they're still both ufologists.
His posts were anti-ETH and debunking UFOs. I do believe he made reference to or a distinction indicating that he does not view himself as a Ufologist. Many debunkers don't go around announcing it and they don't wear name tags. When someone is BOTH anti-ETH and debunking UFOs there is really no other option but in the debunking spectrum.

Also debunkers love anti-ETH folk. Because most of them are hopelessly caught up in pseudo-scientific nonsense and discredit themselves. They can just sit back and laugh and watch them discredit themselves.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
I don't know about anti-ETH, but you do know that The Paracast takes a position that is other than believing in ETH. Not that it isn't possible, but we aren't quite there yet in proving the real origin of UFOs.
 

Burnt State

Paranormal Adept
I really don't know his behaviour as I don't know what he wrote and what you wrote etc., as all that strikes me as a personal issue. The fact is anti-ETH does not equal debunker. Ufologists are ufologists with complex and nuanced opinions straight up. However, debunkers definitely don't go around writing pro-ufo books. I don't think I have anything else to add to this thread.
 

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
I don't know about anti-ETH, but you do know that The Paracast takes a position that is other than believing in ETH. Not that it isn't possible, but we aren't quite there yet in proving the real origin of UFOs.
Yes, I know it's a radio show and you cater to a wide audience. However, I would add that some avenues of alleged inquiry have zero hope of advancing our knowledge.
 

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
I really don't know his behaviour as I don't know what he wrote and what you wrote etc., as all that strikes me as a personal issue. The fact is anti-ETH does not equal debunker. Ufologists are ufologists with complex and nuanced opinions straight up. However, debunkers definitely don't go around writing pro-ufo books. I don't think I have anything else to add to this thread.
When people no longer associated themselves as Ufologists and they are debunking material, the it's an issue. Do you know how many times I've read, "The problem with you Ufologists...."? That phrase indicates the author does not consider them self to be a Ufologist and to lie closer to the debunking spectrum. Not to mention that they all try to pretend they are "skeptics."
 

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
Depends on the avenues. We shouldn't be too quick to prejudge.
We can go into it more but it would only weigh this thread down. If you connect UFOs to something that is not proven you have to prove both it and UFOs. There's no way to get around it. So each time you tack on to the UFO phenomenon the harder your burden becomes. I would suggest to lighten the load as much as possible by disconnecting from the fringe. That's what I suggest, my opinion.
 

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
Look people,

I have a life too. There's some disconnect here. I really don't want to keep repeating myself or get off topic. If anyone has interest in a new email-based group led by Gene then make your interest known here. If nobody is interested, fine by me. I'm not that upset about the whole UFO Collective thing because, let's face it, it's going to be dead here in a few weeks, if less. If anything I breathed a little bit of new life into the place. However, I was banned and it's their loss. If I have one talent in the world it's to get people aroused and talking. LOL
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
Confucius say, wise man walk with head bowed, welcome anyway. Honestly, I do mean the welcome part wholeheartedly. I bet apart from your recent unpleasant experience that you might have a thing or two of your own to contribute in light of your own speculations. We do a pretty awesome job of communicating with one another minus the typical ego based hypothetical hierarchy so common to most other drool fests that refer to themselves as internet forums. We seek out and purposefully discuss a myriad of paranormal preponderances that far and away exceed any narrowed paths of anomalous pursuit. We seek credibility over what might be mistaken for a perplexed and fixated view point in terms of limited or strangulated reason. We want the truth, not just the most likely version of it. Nothing that we are considering is "likely" or typical in the least, why should we?

You are in some extremely good company, again I bid you welcome.
 

manxman

Paranormal Adept
basically the manx version of what jeff's saying is ''come in'' ''take your coat off'' ''take a seat'' ''shut yer gob'' ''listen for abit'' ''and join in''.

but ya been here since 2010, 4 years, and not a tweet out you, good job you werent holding your breath.
 

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
Confucius say, wise man walk with head bowed, welcome anyway. Honestly, I do mean the welcome part wholeheartedly. I bet apart from your recent unpleasant experience that you might have a thing or two of your own to contribute in light of your own speculations. We do a pretty awesome job of communicating with one another minus the typical ego based hypothetical hierarchy so common to most other drool fests that refer to themselves as internet forums. We seek out and purposefully discuss a myriad of paranormal preponderances that far and away exceed any narrowed paths of anomalous pursuit. We seek credibility over what might be mistaken for a perplexed and fixated view point in terms of limited or strangulated reason. We want the truth, not just the most likely version of it. Nothing that we are considering is "likely" or typical in the least, why should we?

You are in some extremely good company, again I bid you welcome.

I do not hold onto any beliefs or desires to add to, enlighten or even lead anything in this community. I feel I'm merely here to point the way to something, that something being technology. However, I've been pointing in the same direction with the UFO crowd actively since 2004/2005 to no avail. Honestly, I'm pretty sure I'm going to bow out of the UFO community as a whole here shortly and focus my time and energy on the science and tech crowd, the ones who are actually building our tomorrow. Perhaps I can have more luck with them rather than the UFO crowd, which is primarily uneducated with regards to both science and tech. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just how it is. It should be far easier to describe the advanced technology glimpsed with UFO reports/encounters with someone who is already knowledgeable about today's tech and what is coming around the corner. It would be far easier to influence them and nudge them in the direction we need to head as a species. The trick would be how to deliver the information or even infect a science/tech field person with the information without revealing it's source. How do I stimulate their sense of invention without ever having to reference that I gleaned this from UFOs? That's going to be the most difficult part.
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
I do not hold onto any beliefs or desires to add to, enlighten or even lead anything in this community. I feel I'm merely here to point the way to something, that something being technology. However, I've been pointing in the same direction with the UFO crowd actively since 2004/2005 to no avail. Honestly, I'm pretty sure I'm going to bow out of the UFO community as a whole here shortly and focus my time and energy on the science and tech crowd, the ones who are actually building our tomorrow. Perhaps I can have more luck with them rather than the UFO crowd, which is primarily uneducated with regards to both science and tech. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just how it is. It should be far easier to describe the advanced technology glimpsed with UFO reports/encounters with someone who is already knowledgeable about today's tech and what is coming around the corner. It would be far easier to influence them and nudge them in the direction we need to head as a species. The trick would be how to deliver the information or even infect a science/tech field person with the information without revealing it's source. How do I stimulate their sense of invention without ever having to reference that I gleaned this from UFOs? That's going to be the most difficult part.
It's funny how we all feel the need to point to our Gods, isn't it? Yet so few are fascinated with the mere fact that there could ever possibly be so many different definitive Godly propositions to begin with. It all comes down to realizing that God is between each of our ears in accord with itself. Is that God up there in those UFOs? If it is, that must mean you're just lusting after his hotrods. Come on man! Where's your sense of adventure? Smile, God wants us all to simply get up off our asses and get busy, we have UFOs to chase. Did you know that due to your training and expertise that you could be a real investigative aid without ever leaving your home? Consultation, analysis, and advisement is critically important to the field. Priceless. Forget the preaching and go kick some real UFO ass. Be you, that's all that matters here.
 

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
It's funny how we all feel the need to point to our Gods, isn't it? Yet so few are fascinated with the mere fact that there could ever possibly be so many different definitive Godly propositions to begin with. It all comes down to realizing that God is between each of our ears in accord with itself. Is that God up there in those UFOs? If it is, that must mean you're just lusting after his hotrods. Come on man! Where's your sense of adventure? Smile, God wants us all to simply get up off our asses and get busy, we have UFOs to chase. Did you know that due to your training and expertise that you could be a real investigative aid without ever leaving your home? Consultation, analysis, and advisement is critically important to the field. Priceless. Forget the preaching and go kick some real UFO ass. Be you, that's all that matters here.
I have made no reference to GOD, not even a reference to it being inside our heads. In fact, I was going to say something earlier how the people who want UFOs to remain a mystery, the people who continually try to link UFOs to the paranormal, are the people who project GOD onto the phenomenon. Just as they want God to remain a mystery they want the phenomenon to forever be unanswered.

Instead, I'm boldly referring to man becoming gods. That's the difference. Men are not gods today. There will come a day when man is no longer human per today's definition of human. We will merge with our technology, upload our minds into machines, give rise to advanced cyborgs and genetically manipulate to an extent that we will be immortal and give birth to life undreamed of. We will travel the heavens and take our rightful place as equals with our visitors. (Not to imply some inane Star Trek fantasy here, as I don't see that ever happening. ) I can assure you that nothing Ufology is up to today is doing anything to advance us to this stage. I say that because the overwhelming majority of the UFO community, including celebrity Ufologists, are pseudo-science at best, anti-science at worse.
 
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trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
Seriously now. You are talking about one UFO discussion list in a sea of what must be thousands of lists, forums, and discussion groups. If the person controlling that group bans you find another that suits you better. Getting wrapped around the axle about it is pointless.
 

Stagger Lee

Paranormal Adept
I've recently read that data from the Keplar Tele has provided us with 700plus small tea cup temp planets to add to our list. If I'm not mistaken, we still have two more years worth of data to go through? As has been predicted long ago, our galaxy could be teeming with life- creatures who have conquered distances between stars. This, for me, makes the ETH the most probable source of the phenom. Of course, I'm not ready to committ to any theory, nor would I jump to debunk another's theory.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
I've recently read that data from the Keplar Tele has provided us with 700plus small tea cup temp planets to add to our list. If I'm not mistaken, we still have two more years worth of data to go through? As has been predicted long ago, our galaxy could be teeming with life- creatures who have conquered distances between stars. This, for me, makes the ETH the most probable source of the phenom. Of course, I'm not ready to committ to any theory, nor would I jump to debunk another's theory.
All that is well and good. The universe must be teaming with life. However, are there UFO reports that point specifically toward extra-terrestrial sources?
 

BoyintheMachine

Paranormal Maven
I've recently read that data from the Keplar Tele has provided us with 700plus small tea cup temp planets to add to our list. If I'm not mistaken, we still have two more years worth of data to go through? As has been predicted long ago, our galaxy could be teeming with life- creatures who have conquered distances between stars. This, for me, makes the ETH the most probable source of the phenom. Of course, I'm not ready to committ to any theory, nor would I jump to debunk another's theory.
Yes, and people forget that ETH is is a wide hypothesis. I interpret it as beings from beyond earth, as in here and now. Parallel Universes, Time Travel, etc., would be included in the ETH as they are not from this planet and not from this time.

As for myself, the ETH is the only theory that I would ever pursue. The rest are a waste of time, in my opinion. As I told Paul Kimball, people keep saying that in over 60 years that the ETH camp has not solved the mystery. Well, the "UFOs are paranormal" camp have been around circa 45 years and they haven't produced anything as well. They have muddied the waters though.

I also don't think people appreciate just how advanced any visitors would be. They are not our equals. We would be inferior to them. The technological gulf that would exist between us would be absurdly great. However, this poses a conundrum. In science man is used to being the superior intelligence. When we study biology, we are intellectually superior to that which we study. The same for every other branch of science. However, with UFOs we are studying that which may be our superior. So that raises a lot of problems. It makes it extremely difficult to gather sufficient evidence to establish their existence.

Another problem here that confounds the matter is the infiltration of "skeptics" who are really debunkers. People need to realize that debunkers are some sneaky snakes. They seemingly get off on what they do. If fills some type of psychological need for them. They will infiltrate the UFO community. They do not wear name tags identifying them as a debunker and they will lie and present themselves as open-minded skeptics. The key to distinguish between skeptics and debukers is that skeptics will admit that UFOs might be extraterrestrial. The key word is might. A debunker will never even allow the possibility. In this community there are outright debunkers pretending to be part of the UFO community and sometimes achieving some level of celebrity and influence. The reason they get away with it is because many people in the UFO community are just ignorant and can't tell the difference between a skeptic and a debunker. If the UFO community doesn't start cleaning house then these debunkers will be the death of Ufology. That combined with "cult of personality", the groupies who chase celebrities instead of an actual interest in the subject, may prove fatal.
 


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