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Any Evidence of Authentic Predictions?



Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
Angleo - I totally agree but that may be beside the point? I think most of us agree that reality is so hard to pin down. I had an OBE and an 'abduction' thing which I fully accept are from my mind. But they were good!
If astral projection is all in the mind I'm still happy to give it a go!

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. It just sounds like some people in this thread think that they are actually leaving their body.
 
P

pixelsmith

Guest
my experience was very real to me. i vividly remember the experience of floating over my body and looking down at it. what happened after that is equally vivid to me... but not the best subject matter for a public forum.
 

CitizenK

Skilled Investigator
You do all realize that everything you are talking about is happening in your mind. No matter how real it seems, it all falls apart under close scrutiny. It's a mix of confirmation bias, the law of extremely large numbers (Law of large numbers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and The Texas Sharpshooter fallacy(Texas sharpshooter fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

However, even though it is explained through human psychology, it does not make it any less interesting. I do realize that no matter what I say, some of you will insist that premonitions are possible, and that's cool - for that, see "The Backfire Effect."

The Backfire Effect | The Paracast Community Forums

I don't really care about what other people think or what scrutiny some could use to try to disprove this...I know for a fact premonitions are real as are OBE's , for example 5 yrs. ago I had a dream premonition in this dream I saw a car wreck (my mom's car) I saw my eldest daughter,then 11 laying in the back of this car with blood coming from her eyes, nose, mouth,etc. it was the most horrifying thing to see , all the details of the scene were present. My husband , who like you (at that time) didn't believe in such "nonsense" told me it was just a dream and to let our girl go ahead with her plans to stay with grandma...2 days later my daughter and mom where on their way home from church and had a car wreck. The scene was exactly what I had seen in my dream! Down to the damage my daughter sustained. She died 3 times that day (flat lined), they barely got her stable enough for stat flight. They told me not to expect anything good from this, she wasn't expected to live more than 72 hrs. and if she did at best she'd be a vegetable. Everything in her body had injuries, it was devasting. And needless to say I felt like I could've prevented it...Now as for his OBE and other stuff being all in our heads. As I said th eDr.'s (and she had 11 specialists) did not expect any sort of good outcome. But, I had faith in my new found knowledge that we are more powerful than led to believe. I began healing her, if I was there with her it was hands on, if I had to be home with my other kids I did it through meditation and OBE...within 1 1/2 wks. she was not only out of ICU but being transferred to rehab! Another 1 1/2 wks. there and she was going home. 3 wks. time . The shrink at rehab calls me into his office the day she was to leave, he says to me " I have went over her file, she was in really bad shape to begin with , you never wavered or showed worry, now she is leaving here almost whole, I want to know how you would explain what has taken place here?" I looked at him and smiled and simply said "the power of prayer", because I knew it would do me no good to go into the details , because like so many in the scientific community they are non believers in such things....which is fine by me. I have only bothered to add this to the thread for those who may think all of the above links have "some merit" . Just because science can't prove it does not make it false in no way. Once upon a time science/academia thought the world to be flat, that the sun orbited around the Earth, that arthritis was all in your head, that meditation had no physical benefits, or that quantum entanglements did not exist between anything let alone people, I could go on there are a large number of things we once thought were one way...all have been proven wrong and so we wait and have faith in what "we" know that science and academia have not caught up to yet. Take back your power.
Peace
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
I'm glad to hear that your daughter was okay.
If believing what you do gets you through difficult times, I am all for it. I am not trying to change your mind about anything. As you can see, changing someone's mind about something is not easy because of the was our minds work. To me, science explains these types of situations, as hard as it is to accept for many people. I'm not sure if you read the links, but you should. It's an interesting point of view.
 

CitizenK

Skilled Investigator
Well I appreciate your sentiments, but it didn't "get me through" , It healed her...that's the point and only one instance to use as an example. She is 100 % fine and has been since week 5 post accident. She graduated an A+ student top of her class and now has 2 beautiful babies. (I'm a young grandma) And no I didn't read your links because for me this case is closed, there is no need to research it further when I have seen the evidence that it is real. (and I will reiterate in more than just this circumstance, there are many.) I can understand you having a hard time seeing this because you haven't experienced it or read of it so it must be hard to wrap your mind around, and that is okay. If you are meant to understand then eventually you will. (that's right, I believe in fate too.)
Peace
 

Goggs Mackay

Administrator
Staff member
CitizenK - nice to bring out quantum entanglement. That alone for me in physics (have a degree in it but don't hold it against me - I'm not like the geeks in the big bang theory!) is the single science theory that could possibly explain many, many 'paranormal' events.

I think it important to differentiate between 'paranormal' and 'supernatural'. I would personally see 'paranormal' as something that is part and parcel of the universe, even if it is not easily noticed or experienced by us as observers.
'Supernatural' I would equate to say, a biblical-type god completely breaking natural laws to do one-off events.
Although possibly not completely thought-out, this simple rule works for me in that I think many paranormal events may indeed one day be explainable. Supernatural events do not occur in my mind and if they do, they are probably never explainable.
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
I have experienced a lot of strange stuff, but I'm able to rationalize it with science. Our brains are extremely complex and they do play tricks on us. It really is a shame you won't take a look at the links I provided. I find that it's important to look at all angles.
 

Goggs Mackay

Administrator
Staff member
Yes Angelo, it is a bit worrying when someone chooses to deliberately not even look at studies/evidence/theories that might conflict with long-held beliefs. I'm with Biedny on the use of 'belief' in this field.
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
Yes Angelo, it is a bit worrying when someone chooses to deliberately not even look at studies/evidence/theories that might conflict with long-held beliefs. I'm with Biedny on the use of 'belief' in this field.

That's a big deal to me. I like to look at all arguments and form my own opinion. I have disagreed with a lot of stuff posted on this site, but I have at least taken the time to taken a look at it. Which brings me to why do a lot of the psychic/ new age/ astral projection sites look like they were made in the days when we all used Netscape to surf the internet? There are amazing, really inexpensive ways of making nice looking sites.
 

CitizenK

Skilled Investigator
This is not long held belief it is a recent knowing , I have looked at all angles previously and see no need to further look at links provided by people who cannot fathom what I am speaking about. That doesn't make me close minded . It only makes me closed off to your perception. You say you aren't trying to change anyone's mind yet you want to push the issue of your links being right or having merit. Once you "know" something to be true it's time to move on to another of the many things that still need answers. It's a personal quest, I am not in it to convince anyone of anything nor do I wish to be convinced of anything. Forums are about discussing , sharing, and looking at other points of view indeed, but this is the 'one' thing I know for certain needs no further doubts, only more practice and study in the direction I am already in.
Now, if we could please move on from this and get back to the topic at hand.
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
This is not long held belief it is a recent knowing , I have looked at all angles previously and see no need to further look at links provided by people who cannot fathom what I am speaking about. That doesn't make me close minded . It only makes me closed off to your perception. You say you aren't trying to change anyone's mind yet you want to push the issue of your links being right or having merit. Once you "know" something to be true it's time to move on to another of the many things that still need answers. It's a personal quest, I am not in it to convince anyone of anything nor do I wish to be convinced of anything. Forums are about discussing , sharing, and looking at other points of view indeed, but this is the 'one' thing I know for certain needs no further doubts, only more practice and study in the direction I am already in.
Now, if we could please move on from this and get back to the topic at hand.

But this is the topic at hand - it's relevant to the discussion. I'd say something clichéd about lotteries and such, but we all know that already.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
Here's my thing. I am 55 years old (It was tough to realize I'm getting old and I just need to say it to confront it.) :eek: Ahem, But anyway to move on. (Old Foghat song playing in my aging brain as I type this.) :p
Anyway, a long time ago I saw my "white crow" so NO I don't follow link after link and conversation after conversation debating the existience of God or the reality of spiritual experinece. When, I see somebody say "Hey, I have a link to a scientist that proves that all dreams or the result of canned corn or to much h20 then no I don't bother to read them." It would be fruitless. Silly even. So, the argument back and forth and link after link after link? No, I don't. Know what? I don't follow link after link of people that tell me God put the dinosaurs in the ground to fool the sinners. :eek: I don't follow link after link of people telling me that the space brothers are going to zap us from the planet if we don't love the tress and take care of the spotted owl. I don't follow link after link of Pat Robertson talking about how Buddism is demonic (he can prove it ya know if you will follow his links.) :rolleyes: I don't follow link after link of Richard Dawkins childish rants about religion and anger about a "god" he doesn't even believe exists. So, no simply following link after evagelistic link is silly and will make your head hurt. ;)

That being said I will follow a link to a study that debates the NDE and states different brain functions and the possibilities of just what the experience might be. I will follow a link to Rupert Sheldrake talking about ESP and then Richard Wiseman giving his counter arguments. But, I won't follow a link that says "Here's proof there is no life after death" Here's proof there's no life on other planets. "Here's proof there's no such thing as ESP." Those are not scientific links of discussion. Those are a mindset and a world view and those are like ass holes, everybody has one. :p The fact is I have my own life experience and I'm telling you "For Me" there is no question that I have had and continue on occasion to have phrophetic dreams and moments when I know. For me it indeed has gone beyond "brain chemistry" Not that there's anything wrong with that. :cool: But, for me to follow link after link to people saying there is no way that ___________ exists or is possible is like somebody who has loved their mother or kissed their girl or prayed for their child at birth while he/she struggled to breath. Then tell them that prayer and hope are stupid. Even those of us who have lost loved ones but still have hope in things and people that can't be placed in a test tube. Some things are self evident. So, yes there is a time to look at research. But, there is also a time to turn the volume down and continue on your personal journey. That's where I am right now. Truth is that everybody (EVERYBODY) heaps teachers to their own ears.
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
Actually, the links I posted are not proof of anything - it's just information about how our minds work. In fact, one of the links talks about exactly this - that no amount of information will change someone's mind if they completely believe something.

If you do read anything Tyder, I would read that one - The Backfire Effect. In fact, everything on that site ( You Are Not So Smart ) is absolutely fascinating!
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
I am tew smart! :p Actually, I have read that particular theory on other sites and in other papers. But, yeah it's interesting. Anyway, as I said before some things are worth looking into but some things are just part of the never ending cycle of argument and noise. I do enjoy most of the back and forth here. I think we at least attempt to keep it civil. :cool:
 

Goggs Mackay

Administrator
Staff member
Thought I might bring something up I was just saying elsewhere...

You see something in 'real life' that proves the exception to a rule. You now know the rule is not absolute so you feel no need in reading about how the rule is strict with no exceptions.
Turning things on their head for a minute if I may be so bold....

Certain skeptical types (there being many of course) argue that 'paranormal' events that are not scientifically repeatable cannot be counted as 'real'.
Well, I would add in on the skeptical side of myself that just because we experience something once or twice it does not make those times guarranteed factual reality as we think it may be.
Therefore, while I agree that there are lines of reasoning not worth going down, something that just happens to disagree with a belief that we hold - we should not discount that, especially if it has some evidence behind it.
I have had one particular experience (apparition) that was a shared one. No chance was it a real person because it disappeared in a dead end. So whereas I cannot presume to dismiss the beliefs of others I can say that when presented with backed-up evidence to the contrary of those beliefs, for a balance of mind, if nothing else, then it is incumbent on us to at least look. Otherwise we become fundamentalists of a sort, convinced beyond any reasoning that we are right and that is not a good place to be.

I do not want to be a fence-sitter always but for example if aliens are actually here, it makes sense to me that they would abduct us. But at the same time for some reason I cannot swallow at all some abductee accounts and certainly the sheer numbers reported. I think there is a large part of one thing involved and a bit of the other. There is cultural contamination for sure but also there probably is a real phenomena behind it! Some of these topics actually lend themselves very well to being completely contradictory!!

My brain hurts!
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
Thought I might bring something up I was just saying elsewhere...

You see something in 'real life' that proves the exception to a rule. You now know the rule is not absolute so you feel no need in reading about how the rule is strict with no exceptions.
Turning things on their head for a minute if I may be so bold....

Certain skeptical types (there being many of course) argue that 'paranormal' events that are not scientifically repeatable cannot be counted as 'real'.
Well, I would add in on the skeptical side of myself that just because we experience something once or twice it does not make those times guarranteed factual reality as we think it may be.
Therefore, while I agree that there are lines of reasoning not worth going down, something that just happens to disagree with a belief that we hold - we should not discount that, especially if it has some evidence behind it.
I have had one particular experience (apparition) that was a shared one. No chance was it a real person because it disappeared in a dead end. So whereas I cannot presume to dismiss the beliefs of others I can say that when presented with backed-up evidence to the contrary of those beliefs, for a balance of mind, if nothing else, then it is incumbent on us to at least look. Otherwise we become fundamentalists of a sort, convinced beyond any reasoning that we are right and that is not a good place to be.

I do not want to be a fence-sitter always but for example if aliens are actually here, it makes sense to me that they would abduct us. But at the same time for some reason I cannot swallow at all some abductee accounts and certainly the sheer numbers reported. I think there is a large part of one thing involved and a bit of the other. There is cultural contamination for sure but also there probably is a real phenomena behind it! Some of these topics actually lend themselves very well to being completely contradictory!!

My brain hurts!

Well said Goggs.
 

Goggs Mackay

Administrator
Staff member
And Angelo becomes the first person to accidentally or deliberately split my username correctly into the first part! Well done mate!:p
I realise it is most unusual (well not in the scheme of usernames but this is what people actually call me in real life, Goggs being a local nickname for 'gordon', my first name).
I have had 'gog', 'goggy' and a few others which have made me smile!
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
And Angelo becomes the first person to accidentally or deliberately split my username correctly into the first part! Well done mate!:p
I realise it is most unusual (well not in the scheme of usernames but this is what people actually call me in real life, Goggs being a local nickname for 'gordon', my first name).
I have had 'gog', 'goggy' and a few others which have made me smile!

It's because I'm super smart. I think that's why Gene made me a moderator.
 

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