trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Indeed! Also, can the moderators merge the ancient building threads? Things are getting cross posted.
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Ancient knowledge, lost or censored ?
- Thread starter dankaholic
- Start date
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Indeed! Also, can the moderators merge the ancient building threads? Things are getting cross posted.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
This is the second thread where Kim brings up two topics from other threads. Stop - it's irrelevant to this specific discussion.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
Yup, I was just about to do that.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
The threads have been merged.
Kim323
Paranormal Maven
Yes, I understand, Angelo. You have had your own frustrations of dealing with those topics.
And, really, Rick, you are one to call for civility! I seem to remember another topic where you piled on just fine!
But I agree, I have made my points on these three threads, now one, evidently, as called for by Rick and Angelo will now implement his wish.
Angleo, I have a question: when threads are merged, serious question, how is it done actually? I mean, does the software put the threads in chronological order, or what, or do you manually go in and choose just where each post is in its new incarnation? Just curious. I am just a little skeptical of a 1984 Winston Smith kind of rewriting of history, as historical revision seems to be the very topic of the three threads! And each post is remains in its original state, right? Kim
And, really, Rick, you are one to call for civility! I seem to remember another topic where you piled on just fine!
But I agree, I have made my points on these three threads, now one, evidently, as called for by Rick and Angelo will now implement his wish.
Angleo, I have a question: when threads are merged, serious question, how is it done actually? I mean, does the software put the threads in chronological order, or what, or do you manually go in and choose just where each post is in its new incarnation? Just curious. I am just a little skeptical of a 1984 Winston Smith kind of rewriting of history, as historical revision seems to be the very topic of the three threads! And each post is remains in its original state, right? Kim
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
If any one has questions about how threads are moderated, please send a PM to one of the moderators.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Kim,
I have my hopes that you will actually be able to participate in a discussion where you neither rise to the taunts obviously thrown your way to distract you or continually bring up past perceived slights. Can we stick to the subject rather than each other?
All,
I wish people would decide what they are here for, to fight or to have a discussion. If you can't have a discussion about some subject without breaking out into rants about past flame wars and getting personal with other posters why bother? I mean really? This poster on poster personality nonsense is COMPLETELY BORING.
Kim323
Paranormal Maven
I agree, of course, Rick. It was my most fervent anticipation when I reentered the forums and began posting after years of being a lurker posting very, very little.
And I think the rules have to be evenly enforced. Angelo says my post about vaccinations and global warming precipitated the merging of the threads (at your wish). I remind Angelo that on a recent thread not on global warming he and another member got into global warming with Pixel, to the point of Angelo writing a post saying, and I paraphrase, something like, watch, now, he's going to say this and that and link to this. That was baiting, I think.
I have put up with a heck of a lot on this forum since my reentering it, and have conducted myself I think with pretty darn good attention to evidence.
I think you have thrown taunts my way indeed, Rick, on the most personal level imaginable and I have learned how this forum operates. Do you include yourself when you talk of taunts?
I just think it's that ol' the kettle calling the pot, people in glass houses, etc. And looking in the mirror when giving platitudes (which no one will disagree with, platitudes often have a lot of truth in them).
On this topic of "alternative" "history" and its accompanying wild and yes crackpot claims, I have endeavored to stick to facts, as I always do. And yes, it sometimes gets personal, and I would like to avoid that. But guess what's brought up by you know who when I present facts about the pyramids, the Romans, etc.? Yes, you guessed it, taunts about my Christianity, cruel ones meant to incite. And so ironic, considering I NEVER made my Christianity per se the topic on these or those other threads. I stuck to history, as I have on this and the other two threads.
I just think you should include yourself, and perhaps some introspection on the parts of all of us will make for a better atmosphere. I have not operated on personal slights, as you say, on these alternative history threads. Go back and read them all. But I have been taunted about religion by the members I am trying to discuss the topic at hand with. Kim
And I think the rules have to be evenly enforced. Angelo says my post about vaccinations and global warming precipitated the merging of the threads (at your wish). I remind Angelo that on a recent thread not on global warming he and another member got into global warming with Pixel, to the point of Angelo writing a post saying, and I paraphrase, something like, watch, now, he's going to say this and that and link to this. That was baiting, I think.
I have put up with a heck of a lot on this forum since my reentering it, and have conducted myself I think with pretty darn good attention to evidence.
I think you have thrown taunts my way indeed, Rick, on the most personal level imaginable and I have learned how this forum operates. Do you include yourself when you talk of taunts?
I just think it's that ol' the kettle calling the pot, people in glass houses, etc. And looking in the mirror when giving platitudes (which no one will disagree with, platitudes often have a lot of truth in them).
On this topic of "alternative" "history" and its accompanying wild and yes crackpot claims, I have endeavored to stick to facts, as I always do. And yes, it sometimes gets personal, and I would like to avoid that. But guess what's brought up by you know who when I present facts about the pyramids, the Romans, etc.? Yes, you guessed it, taunts about my Christianity, cruel ones meant to incite. And so ironic, considering I NEVER made my Christianity per se the topic on these or those other threads. I stuck to history, as I have on this and the other two threads.
I just think you should include yourself, and perhaps some introspection on the parts of all of us will make for a better atmosphere. I have not operated on personal slights, as you say, on these alternative history threads. Go back and read them all. But I have been taunted about religion by the members I am trying to discuss the topic at hand with. Kim
P
pixelsmith
Guest
I am here waiting in "fervent anticipation" for the facts according to the all-knowing Kim.
Kim, PLEASE tell us all just how the pyramids were built and what tools they used. You claim to have all the facts. Did the Romans build them with their magic cranes? Start at the foundation, please tell us how the Egyptians leveled the ground and laid the foundation. This should be the simplest part for you to explain. I am not trying to trap you in any way, I just want to know how they did it. Then we can move on to the second course of foundation blocks and so forth.
I am really excited to finally know how these structures we built.
Kim, PLEASE tell us all just how the pyramids were built and what tools they used. You claim to have all the facts. Did the Romans build them with their magic cranes? Start at the foundation, please tell us how the Egyptians leveled the ground and laid the foundation. This should be the simplest part for you to explain. I am not trying to trap you in any way, I just want to know how they did it. Then we can move on to the second course of foundation blocks and so forth.
I am really excited to finally know how these structures we built.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
Ok, got my popcorn and a six pack ready for this exciting presentation by Kim. This should have been an i-Conference!
Kim when does this explanation start? Will you have charts, graphs and aerial photography too?
Kim when does this explanation start? Will you have charts, graphs and aerial photography too?
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
Kim, your a stubborn lady, as i type this now i know full well you'll come up with other ways to dismiss what i am saying, but here it goes anyways for your reading pleasure.
"Experts (with renowned credentials) were interviewed for this presentation, and they felt it was highly improbable, the Egyptians could have build the pyramid at Giza, with just copper tools and stone and nothing else. For the Egyptian workers to quarry 2,000, 000 + stones weighting 2 to 3 tons each, with only a copper chisel and a stone in hand, realistically is a feat that would take forever to complete. I can imagine the sun beating down on them, as they attempted to chisel the stone out, and the workers saying to themselves, how am i meant to do my work with the tools they have given me, have they gone and lost their minds completely here.
2) If the Egyptians engineered the Great pyramid at Giza, what was behind their reasoning, for not letting future generations know how they went about and constructed this great monument in the desert? Mr Egyptian and his 30,000 + friends build a pyramid for 20 0r 60 years plus years and nobody anywhere taught it might be a good idea to record all this as it was happening. (60) The Egyptians, must have taught it was great craic building a 2,000 million plus stone monument in the desert and been so private about it.
3) The tools found and the only ones found to date in that area could not have done the job, here's why. We use a measurable scale today called MOHs, it measures mineral hardness.
Copper tools (fact) can only cut through stones with a hardness of 2.5 to 3.0 before breaking or been unable to do the task or job.
Limestone hardness is 4 on the scale, granite is 6 to 7 on that scale. Copper tools to put it simply would not have been able to cut granite Scientifically it would not be possible.,
Kim. forget what you have read on the internet from the pro-side, this is the actual reality of it. Mohs Scale of Hardness
4)Kim, there is many other good reasons to doubt the official mainstream version of what happened here long ago. I wish i had the time to explore this further today, with you, but i do not. Finally.
I've seen no evidence that would lead me to believe aliens have any interest in constructing monuments made of rock and stone. Human beings have proven throughout the ages to be very capable of constructing marvelous sites without the need for aliens been involved in it. But in the majority of cases, we have identify positively the culture behind the building work because of actual evidence found. But with Giza very little evidence or anything has been found to say yes the Egyptians did this and here's the evidence try refuting this. The Egyptians themselves never laid claim to building the pyramid at Giza (this is a basic fact) Do i rule it out this pyramid was Egyptian no, but we know very little in regards to how they did it, why,and the purpose behind it.
Speculation and theories are based mainly on belief of certain people. Facts are provable with solid evidence. I've provided you with two facts.
"Experts (with renowned credentials) were interviewed for this presentation, and they felt it was highly improbable, the Egyptians could have build the pyramid at Giza, with just copper tools and stone and nothing else. For the Egyptian workers to quarry 2,000, 000 + stones weighting 2 to 3 tons each, with only a copper chisel and a stone in hand, realistically is a feat that would take forever to complete. I can imagine the sun beating down on them, as they attempted to chisel the stone out, and the workers saying to themselves, how am i meant to do my work with the tools they have given me, have they gone and lost their minds completely here.
2) If the Egyptians engineered the Great pyramid at Giza, what was behind their reasoning, for not letting future generations know how they went about and constructed this great monument in the desert? Mr Egyptian and his 30,000 + friends build a pyramid for 20 0r 60 years plus years and nobody anywhere taught it might be a good idea to record all this as it was happening. (60) The Egyptians, must have taught it was great craic building a 2,000 million plus stone monument in the desert and been so private about it.
3) The tools found and the only ones found to date in that area could not have done the job, here's why. We use a measurable scale today called MOHs, it measures mineral hardness.
Copper tools (fact) can only cut through stones with a hardness of 2.5 to 3.0 before breaking or been unable to do the task or job.
Limestone hardness is 4 on the scale, granite is 6 to 7 on that scale. Copper tools to put it simply would not have been able to cut granite Scientifically it would not be possible.,
Kim. forget what you have read on the internet from the pro-side, this is the actual reality of it. Mohs Scale of Hardness
4)Kim, there is many other good reasons to doubt the official mainstream version of what happened here long ago. I wish i had the time to explore this further today, with you, but i do not. Finally.
I've seen no evidence that would lead me to believe aliens have any interest in constructing monuments made of rock and stone. Human beings have proven throughout the ages to be very capable of constructing marvelous sites without the need for aliens been involved in it. But in the majority of cases, we have identify positively the culture behind the building work because of actual evidence found. But with Giza very little evidence or anything has been found to say yes the Egyptians did this and here's the evidence try refuting this. The Egyptians themselves never laid claim to building the pyramid at Giza (this is a basic fact) Do i rule it out this pyramid was Egyptian no, but we know very little in regards to how they did it, why,and the purpose behind it.
Speculation and theories are based mainly on belief of certain people. Facts are provable with solid evidence. I've provided you with two facts.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Kim,
I officially and completely give up on you. You are on the ignore list. I have no desire to go back and forth with you about your personal problems with me or anyone else on this forum.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
That is not true. Kim has all the answers and will presenting here shortly. Grab some popcorn and beers and join me.... when does this thing start anyway? Hey Kim, will you be presenting facts on the Bible at some point too? I have lots of questions about that fact filled book.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
FYI, Kim is a man, not a woman.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
FYI, Kim is a retired school teacher and is used to people just accepting what he says as fact. This could explain his frustrations with those that do not subscribe to his persistent blathering.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
ooh I see Kim is back. The presentation should begin shortly. I cant believe this is free!
P
pixelsmith
Guest
HEY! where did he go? He logged on and left!
Kim323
Paranormal Maven
Kieran, I have answered your questions in my posts, and have answered specifically Gordon's questions.
To address some of your statements, just off the top of my head, no especial order:
1. Why should any culture, the Egyptians in this case, necessarily want to broadcast their reasons, etc., for anything they did, much less building the pyramids? And to the future, a few thousand years, to boot? That's your mindset, and you're putting a heck of a burden on those hard and intelligent people!
2. How does that "failure" on their part to tell YOU, Kieran, the whys and hows of what they clearly accomplished, negate the fact they built those wondrous creations, and not just Giza, which seems to be some sort of obsession among this "alternative history" "field"? They built tens and tens of pyramids.
3. You say you don't "rule out" the Egyptians as building what is clearly THEIR OWN gorgeous structures? Then, Kieran,
4. back to that old question that won't be answered by you or seemingly anyone else: WHO did build them? But there we go again with this stuff.
5. I, again, have answered the question Gordon asked me about how the Egyptians cut granite, and of course limestone is softer, which does not diminish in any way the Egyptians' accomplishments with those heavy limestone blocks!
6. Sweating in the hot sun, you say, and who's discounting the awesome tasks the Egyptians set for themselves? Not me, but THEY built them, and there was no lost knowledge, no 35 foot diameter circular saws (powered by what?), no, well, what tools DO YOU "hypothesize" the Egyptians used, Kieran?
7. Your whole post is nothing new, Kieran. I know you're trying, but you're just doing that old, well, the pyramids are so wonderful (and at this point pick as Gordon does Baalbek, or this person will pick that structure, and where does it end?), and there's NO WAY they could have built them, and so it WASN'T the Egyptians or the Romans (or choose another culture/civilization that couldn't, no way, no how, do it!), and it must have been, as you clearly say above, the real possibility according to you, SOMEONE ELSE who built them! Full circle, but rational it is not, Kieran.
8. WHO, Kieran?
9. You again and again in your post more than allude to being able to read the Egyptians' minds: Why wouldn't they advertise their accomplishments, how could they not?, why shouldn't they have? We here in the future want to know every single step they took, and we're angry that they don't include us. First of all, the ancient Egyptians DID record their history to a great extent, and their very accomplishments tell us very clearly that THEY, well, accomplished them. That's a great fallacy right there, Kieran, to attribute to them what we want. And we're angry at them for not thinking of us!
Number 10, and I could go on and on, but ten sounds like a good number, and no, it's not true as you say, that "realistically" it would "take forever" for the Egyptians to complete the pyramids. They are complete, and if you would research more you would see that the limestone casing stones they used to finish the pyramids would have dazzled your eyes they would have been so gorgeous. They are complete. And I bet, reading their minds myself (!), that they were duly impressed and proud of their work over many decades, and thought of their grandfathers who had also worked on them! But you, Kieran, sorry to say, were not part of their thoughts, and they owe you nothing! Kim
To address some of your statements, just off the top of my head, no especial order:
1. Why should any culture, the Egyptians in this case, necessarily want to broadcast their reasons, etc., for anything they did, much less building the pyramids? And to the future, a few thousand years, to boot? That's your mindset, and you're putting a heck of a burden on those hard and intelligent people!
2. How does that "failure" on their part to tell YOU, Kieran, the whys and hows of what they clearly accomplished, negate the fact they built those wondrous creations, and not just Giza, which seems to be some sort of obsession among this "alternative history" "field"? They built tens and tens of pyramids.
3. You say you don't "rule out" the Egyptians as building what is clearly THEIR OWN gorgeous structures? Then, Kieran,
4. back to that old question that won't be answered by you or seemingly anyone else: WHO did build them? But there we go again with this stuff.
5. I, again, have answered the question Gordon asked me about how the Egyptians cut granite, and of course limestone is softer, which does not diminish in any way the Egyptians' accomplishments with those heavy limestone blocks!
6. Sweating in the hot sun, you say, and who's discounting the awesome tasks the Egyptians set for themselves? Not me, but THEY built them, and there was no lost knowledge, no 35 foot diameter circular saws (powered by what?), no, well, what tools DO YOU "hypothesize" the Egyptians used, Kieran?
7. Your whole post is nothing new, Kieran. I know you're trying, but you're just doing that old, well, the pyramids are so wonderful (and at this point pick as Gordon does Baalbek, or this person will pick that structure, and where does it end?), and there's NO WAY they could have built them, and so it WASN'T the Egyptians or the Romans (or choose another culture/civilization that couldn't, no way, no how, do it!), and it must have been, as you clearly say above, the real possibility according to you, SOMEONE ELSE who built them! Full circle, but rational it is not, Kieran.
8. WHO, Kieran?
9. You again and again in your post more than allude to being able to read the Egyptians' minds: Why wouldn't they advertise their accomplishments, how could they not?, why shouldn't they have? We here in the future want to know every single step they took, and we're angry that they don't include us. First of all, the ancient Egyptians DID record their history to a great extent, and their very accomplishments tell us very clearly that THEY, well, accomplished them. That's a great fallacy right there, Kieran, to attribute to them what we want. And we're angry at them for not thinking of us!
Number 10, and I could go on and on, but ten sounds like a good number, and no, it's not true as you say, that "realistically" it would "take forever" for the Egyptians to complete the pyramids. They are complete, and if you would research more you would see that the limestone casing stones they used to finish the pyramids would have dazzled your eyes they would have been so gorgeous. They are complete. And I bet, reading their minds myself (!), that they were duly impressed and proud of their work over many decades, and thought of their grandfathers who had also worked on them! But you, Kieran, sorry to say, were not part of their thoughts, and they owe you nothing!
Kim
Kim323
Paranormal Maven
I didn't want to disappoint you, Pixel. I know you had your popcorn and beer ready. My reply to Kieran is just above.
Nice touch there about the Bible. That was a mild one, so thank you.
Kim
Qetuoadgjl
Skilled Investigator
I have a couple of close friends who are/were teachers and getting them to think outside the covers of their textbooks is impossible. They have spent their entire lives living lies, teaching lies, regurgitating the tyrannical Elite views (of history, economics, materialistic physics, et al).
Looking at the Giza Pyramids engineering, construction, pre-historic possibilities takes a clean, unbiased mind one free and clear of prior indoctrination. If you don't have one, you will be lost in a sea of repetitive, ridiculous skepticism.