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Ancient knowledge, lost or censored ?


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dankaholic

dankaholic

Paranormal Novice
First, I apologize now if this comes across as incoherent rambling but I will try with the best of my ability to be as clear as possible.

I have been thinking the past few days of the somewhat obvious, to me anyhow, relationship between ancient "less advanced" civilizations and their ability to somehow know and build things that we cannot replicate today.
The pyramids of Giza and the Pumapunku complex are good examples.

It is assumed that given their accepted age of each that they were constructed by a civilization that is believed to be less technologically advanced then our own.
Without getting into who specifically built them, its safe to assume whomever they were they weren't monotheistic Christians so one can assume that they were of a religion that is more earthly, perhaps similar to neo-paganism in a loose sense.

It seems to me that there is some correlation between the spread of Christianity and the loss of the knowledge these civilizations acquired to be able to carry out these grand constructions.
Were they able to unlock some secret that we may never possess as it directly opposes what we believe to be possible in our conception of reality ?
Was this knowledge lost on purpose during times like the inquisition as it was the satanic babel of godless people as one can assume would have been the general perception ?
Is it possible that the knowledge and techniques were buried because they didn't align with the believed Christian way of viewing the world and humanity itself ?

I don't mean to sound like the worlds biggest atheist but I have a hard time accepting that several thousand Indian's pulled a rock weighing several hundred tons across any distance.
Perhaps the great people here have an opinion or maybe another angle I haven't considered.
 
I have though pretty much the same thing. There may be knowledge we can not even guess at that was deliberately destroyed by the conquering forces from Europe - anything that did not immediately appear compatible with Catholicism seems to have been wiped out.

Luckily, some history passed down orally within certain South American peoples has survived. It is very interesting that most of them seem to talk about advanced humans that did not look like they were from that continent, coming to their people and teaching them things. Whether you wanna go as far as seeing these 'teachers' as aliens or possibly just humans from an early world-wide civilisation, it does seem to go against currently accepted versions of history; that the first contact with non-indigenous South Americans was with the Spanish in the middle of the last millenium.
History being written by the victors being the norm, I am happy to accept that currently taught history is very wrong on many counts!
 
The thing is, considering the amazing things we've built, we could build the pyramids now. Or are you referring to not using current technology?
 
Dankaholic, I share your wonder at the engineering and construction techniques that went into building pumapunku. Truly impressive, and awe inspiring is a chasm of understatement.

I'd definitely discount any chance of those techniques being beyond the capabilities of the people who built the structures, or of their capabilities to construct the systems of agriculture that sustained them. The construction was approximately in the fifth to sixth centuries AD.

Keep in mind that many, many impressive architectural feats were accomplished by mere homo sapiens far, far earlier, including by the Egyptians. And two more, and that's just a start, were the Parthenon by the Greeks and Persepolis by the Persians. Alexander the great was the proud title holder to the deed, and assumed the mortgage of, Persepolis.

I think it's a wondrous testament to our brains, strength, and ingenuity that humans could, well, not easily, that's the wonder of it, but clearly did, construct these beautiful things.

It's the undisputed consensus of geologists, historians, metallurgists, and professionals in hosts of other fields that these wondrous cities and structures were built by little ol' us, without the intervention of who knows who. And the knowledge needed to build them was in no danger of being lost, so don't worry about that. It was never lost. Disparate civilizations came up with that knowledge far apart from each other in distance and culture and time. They are indeed wondrous creations. Kim
 
Hi, Pixel. Which structure(s), civilization(s), do you specifically mean?

And, then, by whom, if not by humans, were the structures, civilizations built/created or who supplied the knowledge/technology to build them? Kim
 
Kim323 said:
Hi, Pixel. Which structure(s), civilization(s), do you specifically mean?

And, then, by whom, if not by humans, were the structures, civilizations built/created or who supplied the knowledge/technology to build them? Kim
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I have no clue as to who built structures like those at pumapuncko. It is my greatest interest to find out who and how they created those structures.
My problem is your statement that there is an "undisputed consensus" about the origin of thee structures being made by "little ol' us". There once was a consensus that the earth was flat, that earth is the center of the universe, rancid meat turns into maggots, blood letting cures sickness, humans are causing catastrophic global warming, etc etc... all these are now known to be false.
 
Hi, Pixel.

My point was that Pumapunku was built by humans, homo sapiens, little 0l' us.;)

And everything I read that isn't claiming they were 1. built by some race on earth upteen thousands of years ago, 2. are a portal site, or 3. were built by or with knowledge supplied by intelligent extraterrestrials, look at this group of truly wondrous structures and categorically insist that they were constructed by us (carbon dating, for instance, tells us they were built in the AD 400s to 500s, rather late, and this is dating at the lowest level of the structures).

Geologists have examined the stones, and don't see that the intervention of extraterrestrials were needed to cut them.

The transportation of the material to the site, like other places built with huge chunks of stone, like Stonehenge, is truly a marvel, but not needing aliens to supply them with the means or knowledge to do the moving.

And these scientists come to the definite conclusion that they were built by humans.

The examples you give don't really stand up as analogies for wonderful architectural feats by humans, are non-sequitur examples, I think.

So, if not humans, who built Pumapunku or any other superb feats of engineering, mathematics, and skill? Kim:)
 
Kim, try and find a stone mason that can replicate pumapunko without the aid of a CNC machine.
 
Hi, Pixel. I really need specificity here.:D

Are you saying that the humans who lived at Pumapunku needed computer numerical control machines in order to build the structures?

If so, and they couldn't do it themselves, and that's my whole point that they did do it themselves, then where did the technology (CNC machines or other technology) come from that allowed them to do that which otherwise you say they could not do?

As for today, yes, I think if an exact replica of the place and its structures just had to be built, then I think it would be very, very doable by modern humans using only the technology and techniques that are thought to have been possessed by those humans, no modern technology allowed.

Keep in mind that from what I've read, the level of the lake and some environmental things have changed. But yes, of course modern humans could do it, just need those skilled enough to do it and of course, the human workforce required to move the material. I think I read that the place had a pretty large population there in and in the area, some couple of hundred thousand. I think fewer humans could do it. Kim
 
Thanks to everyone who replied, some good food for thought presented here.

I do not discount that human beings could have built either the pyramids or pumapunku but it seems to be that it takes a similar leap of faith to credit these constructions to man as it does to anyone or anything else.

Kim, in response to your comment that Pumapunku in particular was built by humans according to historians I would say of course they would say that as to say otherwise would imply the existence of others with that capability and as far as I know we havent proven that just yet :D

I am no engineer or architect so I cannot say for certain, but it is my understanding that, pyramids aside, we have no machine currently available to lift a 450 tons block let alone transport it the 10 kilometers or so from the suspected quarry site to its final resting place.

But assuming man found a way be it harmonic or levitation or any other manner of transport I find it mighty suspicious that the technique used seems to have been lost to the ages.

Many wonderous things have been built by man and they cannot be disputed but it is safe to assume that most of those, the parthenon is a good example, was most likely built by many people over a long period of time. Considering that at the time of its construction that area was the center of the worlds populous and they would have had a slave labor force or what have you needed to do such a feat. As far as I know there werent as many Incas in the Pumapunku region that would be needed to pull such massive stones let alone lift them, and if so the fact they were able to cut them with such precision suggests something more then primitive hand tools were used in my opinion.

Either way seems like once the spanish landed in south America that knowledge was lost, as goggsmackay so excellently stated.

Some good information here, I now have some reading to do thank you kim for that book suggestion.
 
Kim323 said:
Hi, Pixel. I really need specificity here.:D

Are you saying that the humans who lived at Pumapunku needed computer numerical control machines in order to build the structures?
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No. I am not saying that. I am saying that is how it would be done today because no one knows how they did it back then. If you know how those inside boxes were cut please tell us!
 
Hey, Pixel. Ok, I know I'm perceived on these forums as knowing everything, and they're right, I do!:p Kidding, of course, but I do know a lot. However, your question above did incite my interest for more details, so I went to google and entered in how did ancient man cut stone blocks. Of course, Heavens knows how many hits came up, and I read a bunch.

This one struck me, mostly because it takes on that ancient aliens TV show, and addresses that query I put into google, and addresses Pumapunku, too. Here's the link:

The Dumbasses Guide To Knowledge :: The Evidence For Ancient Stone Cutting

Now, Pixel, DO NOT take that website address personally, because nothing is meant, it's just that I really liked the site:)

If you read this link and some others I think you will see that humans can indeed cut hard stone, can indeed move blocks of stone that weigh hundreds of tons, and then lift them to quite impressive heights. Many civilizations have done this.

Another thing that I keep stressing is that we really need to have more faith in human ingenuity and skill and sheer horsepower. To even begin to even remotely entertain intelligent extraterrestrials, or that ancient man in the past was able to levitate objects, etc., begs credulity.

I do think statistical thinking can intervene here, even if we didn't know how they did it, but we do know how they did it. Kim
 
There is good evidence of large-scale machining at Giza too. The stones cut at pumapunku have been done so with a precision basically impossible with soft-metal tools. It looks machined to me but I am not trained in that area. It looks machined to people who are expert in that area though.
 
Kim323 said:
Hey, Pixel. Ok, I know I'm perceived on these forums as knowing everything, and they're right, I do!:p Kidding, of course, but I do know a lot. However, your question above did incite my interest for more details, so I went to google and entered in how did ancient man cut stone blocks. Of course, Heavens knows how many hits came up, and I read a bunch.

This one struck me, mostly because it takes on that ancient aliens TV show, and addresses that query I put into google, and addresses Pumapunku, too. Here's the link:

The Dumbasses Guide To Knowledge :: The Evidence For Ancient Stone Cutting

Now, Pixel, DO NOT take that website address personally, because nothing is meant, it's just that I really liked the site:)

If you read this link and some others I think you will see that humans can indeed cut hard stone, can indeed move blocks of stone that weigh hundreds of tons, and then lift them to quite impressive heights. Many civilizations have done this.

Another thing that I keep stressing is that we really need to have more faith in human ingenuity and skill and sheer horsepower. To even begin to even remotely entertain intelligent extraterrestrials, or that ancient man in the past was able to levitate objects, etc., begs credulity.

I do think statistical thinking can intervene here, even if we didn't know how they did it, but we do know how they did it. Kim
Click to expand...
The article said nothing about cutting multiple inside corners except that math was not required. I find it odd that you believe in biblical miracles involving a zombie jesus and angels and such but not the possibility that ET could have had some input in building ancient structures.
 
But, Pixel, did you read some of the other articles that the query I entered into google got me? Or you can enter in another query of your own and read some more. You've got to want to actually do the work and study on it.:)

That way, you can answer your own question, and it is specifically answered in the stuff I found.

So I have proved that humans are the ones who did indeed build everything they built.

So, now that you have stated that intelligent extraterrestrials are a "possibility" and "could have had some input in building ancient structures," that brings me back to my original question to you at the beginning of this thread:

Which specific structures in history, which specific civilizations, do you think had from ETs "input in building" them? There are so many wondrous ancient structures, buildings, whole cities in fact that are just awe inspiring, from a host of ancient civilizations I could name.

Which of them out of so very, very many of them, do you think needed this input from ETs for humans to build? Kim
 
you haven't proved anything Kim.
pumapunko is one place of many that I think could have had input from ET, or not.
 
But that's precisely my question: Tell me the names "of many" you "think could have had input from ET"? Or, just two or three? What I want is evidence that humans were unable to build them. The evidence is that they did, clearly.

So, please name two or three.

I think evidence is important, and I have provided evidence for my claims. You possess, evidently, contrary evidence, and that's what I want to know. You must have it from your own studies.

I just think that evidence should be limited to evidence for our own planet only, as there is no evidence of intelligent extraterrestrials, or of them visiting earth.

Any evidence I have for any claim I make is based on actual evidence from here on earth. Kim:)
 
goggsmackay said:
There is good evidence of large-scale machining at Giza too. The stones cut at pumapunku have been done so with a precision basically impossible with soft-metal tools. It looks machined to me but I am not trained in that area. It looks machined to people who are expert in that area though.
Click to expand...

Hi, Gordon. What experts say they are machined? What is the evidence of machining? And what do you specifically mean by "machine" here?

You mean, I'm guessing, modern machinery running on electricity, nuclear, or some other power? But I don't understand. You actually know more about this than I do, working as an engineer in the oil industry and far more familiar with machines than I am.

I've gone back and done some more research on the Great Pyramid to supplement what I already knew. I have seen no evidence at all that anything but human skill and strength and ingenuity were used to construct that impressive structure, and without any powered machines, as we now think of them. Of course, they used machines, levers, etc. and physics concepts, of course. In fact, from what I've read, the casing stones, absent mostly now, that finished the pyramid, would have made it a thing to take your breath away after the whole structure was completed.

I referred Pixel to a website I found, and again, don't take anything from the internet address, I just liked how it confronted the ancient aliens TV show.:) Kim
 
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