Thank you Chris for clarifying and elaborating. I completely agree.
Quoting directly from this thread, my comments about Ray Stanford and his work would be as follows:
"propulsion research very interesting" -- indeed it is.
"smoking gun type footage" -- you'll see few super close-up "pretty pictures" of UFOs from Ray, but smoking guns, absolutely.
"My guess and its only that, is that this footage kept to himself will ensure he gets invites to the various conferences to present it." -- Ray has no interest in UFO conferences.
"I remember that quote from Chris - he was replying to me since I expressed doubt that Ray has what he says he has. I mean up close footage of a UFO - I don't think it's as clear as he says it is. Chances are that when we do see it, we'll all be underwhelmed." -- useless, petty speculation.
Yes we could hear the pain in Gene's voice asking over and over WHY is this not on YouTube?? -- maybe someday it will be.
It's frustrating. It doesn't make a difference if someone else rips off the image, which is one of Ray's excuses. You might as well never release any evidence about UFOs because somebody will fake it. Oh well. -- He's publicly offered you the opportunity to visit him and see the entire presentation. Buy a plane ticket and find out.
"This smells like an Imbrogno situation. Edit: Ok, that might be a bit harsh, I am actually intrigued by Ray. I live right around the corner from him, if I could I would love to check out what he has." -- hire a cab, go find out
"So, the way I see it, the paradigm change will never come from within the UFO community, no matter how many credible witnesses or legitimate photos or videos we can gather." -- right on, brother.
"Unfortunately I can't shake the feeling that Ray won't release his footage because the scrutiny it would come under would either show it to be incredibly underwhelming in of itself or worse be exposed under terse analysis as a total fake a la Billy Meier's supposed "evidence"." -- like from this forum?
"To add to the concern about the footage not being released is that Ray is getting on in years. What will happen to it after he dies? Will its availability vanish forever? That would be a tragedy." --Not to those of us who have made the effort to see it.
"Ray Stanford is the real-deal. I don't believe he is perpetrating a hoax. If anything, he may be insulating himself from the realization that; Project Starlight International did not achieve what he had hoped for. That is my opinion." -- Ray Stanford is the real-deal and Project Starlight achieved significant results.
"Maybe. But it would be helpful to the field for him to release this information and let it live or die by independent analysis." -- by whom... this forum?
"I do understand the caution anyone might have, and the tendency toward disbelief...it goes with the territory." -- right on!
"Release your good work. It may have the profound effect of changing minds and getting the hard sciences finally involved in the field of Ufology." -- I agree.
"I researched him a little on the Internet" -- absolutely no way to know about the work of Ray Stanford.
"There is a plethora of scientific journals out there. If Stanford wanted to get it published and reviewed by experts and scientists, he could easily write up a paper and have it published by one of the lesser known but still respected journals. One can only speculate on his reasons for not going this route." -- really? do you know anything about scientific journals?
"Oh well, I guess I can always pass the time until he decides to publish his material with some reading. Can anyone recommend one of his books? Which Ray Stanford classic is better: "Speak, Shining Stranger" or "What Your Aura Tells Me"?" -- they're both interesting, do you own them, have you read them? I have. Ray published neither, they were published by the AUM.
"Stanford has apparently been collecting data since the 1970ies" -- Stanford has been collecting and publishing data since 1956.
"I find that although I continue to be willing to give Ray Stanford the benefit of the doubt, it begins to wear a little thin. The whole bit about it only being shown to the worthy is tiresome and bit insulting." -- Find another hobby.
"I dont mind people making a buck or two pursuing their passion, my issue is when it comes at a cost to the genre itself.
When incidents like this are treated like carnival items, roll up roll up and pay your conference fees to see the amazing Ray stanford and his incredible UFO footage, with we the audience with a genuine interest in these things relegated to one born every minute status.
Once the primary motivation becomes fame and money, you are just another steven greer" -- Pathetic re-branding of Stanford's work!
"Chris have you seen these amazing UFO films?" -- I believe he has said so many times in past episodes.
"I agree with the prevailing sentiments that to make such claims as Mr. Stanford has without releasing the film is to beg and plead for the skepticism he is receiving in abundance." -- Have you done ANY research into the past work of Mr. Stanford? Do you own, or have you read the Socorro book?
"Can anyone shed light onto what Ray's motivation and/or intention is with being this involved in Ufology? It appears he has had numerous sightings and been lucky enough to even capture footage on film (referenced in this week's show)" -- you (bentupper) are the kind of individual that this field needs. Read, seek out, contact, and visit people like Stanford so that you may draw your own conclusions.
"he has never himself explained or mentioned his role in AUM" -- Stanford was not the founder, leader or on the board of directors of the AUM.
"Stanford's UFOdetector had an "attractor" feature that include a circle of lights that was supposed to gain the attention of flying saucer aliens! Simple and child-like in design, Stanford's circle of spinning lights, which displayed on and off at different intervals, is reminiscent of Steven Greer's ridiculous attempts at attracting UFOs by shining flashlights up into the sky. Stanford also had a "Precision Monitoring UFO Magnetometer" for use in the home:" -- this parroted bs from CSICOP is, at best, poorly written. They referenced bits and pieces from a Project Starlight project experiment and threw in Greer for fun.
"Stanford got deeply entangled with a 1950s cult called "Soulcraft." -- Stanford has no affiliation with "Soulcraft" or William Pelley, who died long before Stanford was ever born.
"Stanford stated that in the autumn of 1973 his car was, not once, but twice, teleported large distances while driving to the airport to pick up Uri Geller. Stanford stated that he (along with the car!) was transported some 30 miles in the blink of an eye. Stanford said that an entity that he had conjured called "Spectra" assisted in moving him and his vehicle instantaneously down a highway." -- another CSICOP tangle. Stanford does claim many strange occurrences during his times with Geller, but "Spectra" was first referenced in the Andrija Puharic book on Geller, a fascinating read, by the way. Anyone here taken the time to watch the SRI videos of Geller on YouTube or read this book? Stanford is not at all connected to Geller's "Spectra".
"At one time, Stanford promoted the construction of a machine that he called "the Hilarion Accelerator." This device, he claimed, would transport a living human being back in time." -- Was content taken out of context from a psychic reading by Stanford. File with Edgar Cayce and Atlantis. Ever read those books?
"Oh, and btw... In the 90ies Ray Stanford was apparently involved in paleontology!" -- is this another cult? Then for sure, he contributes to this day!
"It would be interesting to hear Ray comment on his early career as a trance medium and whether he views those early endeavors as still holding water or not." -- indeed it would.
Ray Stanford, since 1956, has been a participant in researching the question of extraterrestrial visitation, UFOs, the human mind, psychic abilities and whatever tools human beings have at their disposal to begin to comprehend what we see in our skies and what we might do to begin to understand this greater reality. He has been working diligently for over 60 years, through the often quoted Keyhoe period and contactee movements, the 60's and 70s paranormal frontier times and for over 40 years using instrumented research.
I'm an avid fan of ufological history. Most of these players are long gone but Stanford fortunately, is still around. Please show him some respect.
