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4/1/2012 Chris Lambright and Ray Stanford


Sentry

Paranormal Adept
Good show! I was not familiar with Ray Stanford's work. I'd tuned in mostly for the Bennewitz material and found the discussion of the use of his film in propulsion research very interesting. Chris Lambright seems to be proven that the Condon report got it wrong when they said that "nothing has come from the study of UFOs in the past 21 years that has added to scientific knowledge".

Chris makes a pretty convincing case for Doty being a genuine counterintelligence agent, but I'm not so sure about Bill Moore. On the other hand, many of the British spies recruited by the Nazis were flawed, opportunistic self-centered jerks, so maybe so!
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Good show, but i have to say i dont buy Ray's rationale re his photo/footage

At the end of the day its his footage and he can do what he likes with it, but i dont think his decision helps UFOlogy one bit.
If its smoking gun type footage, it should be made public it may be the straw that breaks the camels back and opens the genre up to serious scientific study.If everyone with real footage took the view that it would only help the hoaxers, then all we will ever see is hoax video's...... hardly helpful to the subject.
My guess and its only that, is that this footage kept to himself will ensure he gets invites to the various conferences to present it.
I dont doubt thats in his best self interest, but not the field of ufologys.
 

Sentry

Paranormal Adept
Since I'm not that familiar with Ray Stanford, I had to back up to check some of the older forum discussion on the topic of his film.
YES Ray HAS provided proof for his claims. I set up a presentation for him on 2006 that around 50 people attended. The ones who could keep up w/ the science were duly impressed. Two months ago Ray met w/ a famous, world-class, physicist and gave him an abbreviated 4-5 hour presentation that the physicist called "marvelous." I don't care what you or Lance or anyone thinks: I know that Ray is the real deal. Deal w/ that! End of rant :)
Yeah, I'd like to see the material too, but it sounds like Ray's reasons are valid for limiting the availability. My only gripe is that Ray paid his kid only $10 for this monumental evidence!
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
I remember that quote from Chris - he was replying to me since I expressed doubt that Ray has what he says he has. I mean up close footage of a UFO - I don't think it's as clear as he says it is. Chances are that when we do see it, we'll all be underwhelmed.
 

bentupper

Skilled Investigator
Yes we could hear the pain in Gene's voice asking over and over WHY is this not on YouTube?? I agree it should be made available for all if it's that good. Him hoarding the evidence isn't much different than the military doing the same. It puts people off. I have my stash of cookies and you can't have any because there are a lot of douchebags sending in fake recipes to the Keebler elves.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
It's frustrating. It doesn't make a difference if someone else rips off the image, which is one of Ray's excuses. You might as well never release any evidence about UFOs because somebody will fake it. Oh well.
 

icculus

Paranormal Maven
Like Mike said, good show, however in my opinion, Ray is full of it. This smells like an Imbrogno situation.

Edit: Ok, that might be a bit harsh, I am actually intrigued by Ray. I live right around the corner from him, if I could I would love to check out what he has.
 

red_pill_junkie

Paranormal Adept
Why would anyone want to pay for a book showing simulations of a film people without proper credentials aren't allowed to view for themselves? Whatever the book presents, it will remain anecdotal no matter how compelling or well-presented.

In the end we're trapped in some sort of vicious cycle here, for even if scientists with credentials were to watch the film and agreed that it was legitimate proof of anomalous aerial phenomena, they won't risk their careers or reputation by going on the record because of the giggle factor attached to the UFO phenomenon. And the giggle factor will remain in perpetuum as long as clearer evidence supporting the reality of the phenomenon surfaces.

So, the way I see it, the paradigm change will never come from within the UFO community, no matter how many credible witnesses or legitimate photos or videos we can gather. It will be only after there's shift in our public perception of the Universe that we'll finally accept to integrate UFOs into our reality tunnel. How that shift will come to be I don't have the foggiest idea :-/

Does it show I don't like Mondays? ;)
 

red_pill_junkie

Paranormal Adept
I remember that quote from Chris - he was replying to me since I expressed doubt that Ray has what he says he has. I mean up close footage of a UFO - I don't think it's as clear as he says it is. Chances are that when we do see it, we'll all be underwhelmed.
That's why I also gather from hearing Chris Lambert's opinion, and why he needs Ray needs to be present and explain what the movie shows. So, either (a) the footage is not that ground-breakingly convincing as all of us would hope to; or (b)there are some veiled and hardly perceptible elements depicted in the film that would not catch the attention of a layman. If (b) then it boils down to a matter of how rigorous was the analysis conducted by Stanford in order to reach his interpretation, and whether that analysis would stand a scientific peer review.

But the peer review will never come because of the vicious cycle I wrote about in my other comment.
 

mikeclr

Skilled Investigator
Unfortunately I can't shake the feeling that Ray won't release his footage because the scrutiny it would come under would either show it to be incredibly underwhelming in of itself or worse be exposed under terse analysis as a total fake a la Billy Meier's supposed "evidence".
 

bentupper

Skilled Investigator
I don't understand why transparency is a problem here? If its something to do with National Security then why should Ray have access to it but the rest of us drones are locked out?
 

Sentry

Paranormal Adept
I remember that quote from Chris - he was replying to me since I expressed doubt that Ray has what he says he has.
I see, looking back at those threads the issue of Ray choosing to limit access to the research has been extensively discussed- several times.

What's new in this show is the claim that Ray's work was used for the basis of the propulsion system discussed in this article in the September 1995 issue of Popular Mechanics. It seems possible, and I don't think that' it is the only advance in aerospace technology that has come from looking at or thinking about UFOs.
 

wwkirk

Paranormal Adept
To add to the concern about the footage not being released is that Ray is getting on in years. What will happen to it after he dies? Will its availability vanish forever? That would be a tragedy.
 
V

Voyager

Guest
To add to the concern about the footage not being released is that Ray is getting on in years. What will happen to it after he dies? Will its availability vanish forever? That would be a tragedy.
Ray Stanford is the real-deal. I don't believe he is perpetrating a hoax. If anything, he may be insulating himself from the realization that; Project Starlight International did not achieve what he had hoped for. That is my opinion.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Maybe. But it would be helpful to the field for him to release this information and let it live or die by independent analysis.
 

Chris Lambright

Paranormal Novice
...I mean up close footage of a UFO - I don't think it's as clear as he says it is. Chances are that when we do see it, we'll all be underwhelmed.
Just to clarify, the term "close footage" isn't something I think is accurate as a descriptive phrase...but it was a good camera and a good lens, so the vehicles are clearly visible and what is in the book is a decent representation. I need to point out that I did not ask Ray for actual pictures to put in the book because I was going strictly by my experience and what I have seen in the frames of the film...and I have said to everyone all along that you need to go see them and have Ray provide the details, then my illustrations will be moot, I suppose. So it was my decision to recreate what I have seen, but I stand by the illustrations having seen Ray's images several times. Again, I point to what Myrabo saw and did with his own experience seeing the images as evidence that none of this rests on my word alone.
I do understand the caution anyone might have, and the tendency toward disbelief...it goes with the territory. But what's in the book is presented as accurately and directly as I was able to do it, both in the information and the illustrations. There is far more in the actual images than I could reproduce, but there are still intriguing things in what I've illustrated if you examine it closely.

That said, rather than make dismissive judgments, perhaps simply reserve judgment it until you get more information and have a chance to see things for yourself.
...there is more than just this.
Chris L.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
I'm not personally being dismissive, Chris. But I do think Ray should begin to seriously consider letting loose with more of the evidence he says he has. You have to understand why people are skeptical.
 

Berean

Skilled Investigator
What's new in this show is the claim that Ray's work was used for the basis of the propulsion system discussed in this article in the September 1995 issue of Popular Mechanics. It seems possible, and I don't think that' it is the only advance in aerospace technology that has come from looking at or thinking about UFOs.
Great show.

I wish we could have heard more about Ray Stanford's theories regarding UFOs and magnetohydrodynamic propulsion systems. Personally, I think he's probably barking up the wrong tree with MHD relative to the classic silent, instant-acceleration-capable UFOs that seem to operate outside our physical paradigm.

I do think it's possible that MHD propulsed UFOs have flown. But if so, they our ours. Just my opinion. I'd love to see what he's sitting on.
 
V

Voyager

Guest
Maybe. But it would be helpful to the field for him to release this information and let it live or die by independent analysis.
I can't argue with that. I can't read his mind. You would think that he could at least publish one screen shot.
 
V

Voyager

Guest
Great show.

I wish we could have heard more about Ray Stanford's theories regarding UFOs and magnetohydrodynamic propulsion systems. Personally, I think he's probably barking up the wrong tree with MHD relative to the classic silent, instant acceleration-capable UFOs that seem to operate outside our physical paradigm.

I do think it's possible that MHD propulsed UFOs have flown. But if so, they our ours. Just my opinion. I'd love to see what he's sitting on.
I agree with your assessment about MHD.
 

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