2012 and the maya

[Mothra]

I think the Hopi Indians have a 2012 myth and that silly bible code also states 2012 stuff.

I imagine a bunch of books and hysteria. Remember hale Bop? That scared me because people were just going nuts over that. I remember all the remote viewing people on Art Bell who were in contact with the spaceship that was tagging along with it.

 

[Seth]

Can you please provide details on what other cultures place significance on 2012?

Terrence McKenna's timewave zero graph also leads to 2012; if I remember correctly.

 

[derekcbart]

Can you please provide details on what other cultures place significance on 2012?

Terrence McKenna's timewave zero graph also leads to 2012; if I remember correctly.

Hi there.

As far as I know Terrence McKenna is not a culture.

 

[noddwyd]

what I hear constantly attached to this is pole shift, which is something that exists in geological record, and it has happened many times throughout the earth's history. Whether these shifts have been linked to mass dissapearance of species or not I have not heard, but supposedly it causes massive destruction on the surface, plus all our magneticly dependent technology would probably be at least temporarily screwed.

 

[derekcbart]

Wikipedia has a couple of good entries on this.

The pseudoscientific explanation called "Pole Shift Theory" can be read about here:
Pole shift hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The scientific explanation called "Geomagnetic Reversal" can be read about here:
Geomagnetic reversal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Seth]

As far as I know Terrence McKenna is not a culture.

Actually, he based it on a Chinese sequence called King Wen (Book of Changes)...Last time I checked, China had the largest culture on the planet. You’re forgiven.

 

[derekcbart]

As far as I know Terrence McKenna is not a culture.

Actually, he based it on a Chinese sequence called King Wen (Book of Changes)...Last time I checked, China had the largest culture on the planet. You’re forgiven.

Hi there.

I think you have your references confused. King Wen was not a book, but a person: King Wen of Zhou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia King Wen was the base that formed the Zhou Dynasty: Zhou dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which in turn went on to found modern Chinese philosophy: Chinese philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, none of these seem to have anything to do with the year 2012.

 

[peter222999]

There are a number of possibilities , and I do take the solar information
seriously,therefore I think at any time during these next 10 years we
could have some rough time here on planet blue. Whether you can pin
point that to a specific date is my doubt, but I do have a open mind.
Just out of curiosity , do you think maybe they just ran out of calendar
stone?

 

[Seth]

As far as I know Terrence McKenna is not a culture.

Actually, he based it on a Chinese sequence called King Wen (Book of Changes)...Last time I checked, China had the largest culture on the planet. You’re forgiven.

Hi there.

I think you have your references confused. King Wen was not a book, but a person: King Wen of Zhou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia King Wen was the base that formed the Zhou Dynasty: Zhou dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which in turn went on to found modern Chinese philosophy: Chinese philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, none of these seem to have anything to do with the year 2012.

Hello back...Fact: King Wen IS a book of Chinese symbols in a sequence that Terrance McKenna used to make timewave zero. Search the net for King Wen sequence. Here it is in the source you are using:

King Wen sequence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[derekcbart]

Just out of curiosity , do you think maybe they just ran out of calendar stone?

That's exactly what happened. Take a look earlier in the thread to see my posts about the long count calendars.

 

[derekcbart]

As far as I know Terrence McKenna is not a culture.

Actually, he based it on a Chinese sequence called King Wen (Book of Changes)...Last time I checked, China had the largest culture on the planet. You’re forgiven.

Hi there.

I think you have your references confused. King Wen was not a book, but a person: King Wen of Zhou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia King Wen was the base that formed the Zhou Dynasty: Zhou dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which in turn went on to found modern Chinese philosophy: Chinese philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, none of these seem to have anything to do with the year 2012.

Hello back...Fact: King Wen IS a book of Chinese symbols in a sequence that Terrance McKenna used to make timewave zero. Search the net for King Wen sequence. Here it is in the source you are using:

King Wen sequence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi there.

I just read the link and it turns out that my original statement of McKenna not being a culture still holds true. The Chinese do not have any cultural significance towards 2012. The Timewave Zero concept was completely made up by McKenna using the King Wen Sequence and Numerology. Timewave Zero is actually part of McKenna's Novelty Theory: Terence McKenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This theory has been shown to be non-scientific and it is not accepted in the scientific/rational world.

 

[Seth]

I just read the link and it turns out that my original statement of McKenna not being a culture still holds true. The Chinese do not have any cultural significance towards 2012. The Timewave Zero concept was completely made up by McKenna using the King Wen Sequence and Numerology. Timewave Zero is actually part of McKenna's Novelty Theory: Terence McKenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This theory has been shown to be non-scientific and it is not accepted in the scientific/rational world.

The original request was for more evidence of cultures possibly supporting a 2012 end date. Terrance McKenna "interpreted" the Chinese King Wen just as others have "interpreted" the Dresden Codex of the Maya.

To say one is true and one is not is or one is culturally supported and one is not is a ludicrous supposition. After all, they are translations and interpretations of codices. Are you going to say the attached is an Egyptian helicopter, tank, or plane? One could suggest its meaning, but it is all speculation. The Mayans do not actually say the "end of the world" is in 2012! That is a common misconception. Quit critiquing semantics and get to the point of the threads.

 

[derekcbart]

I just read the link and it turns out that my original statement of McKenna not being a culture still holds true. The Chinese do not have any cultural significance towards 2012. The Timewave Zero concept was completely made up by McKenna using the King Wen Sequence and Numerology. Timewave Zero is actually part of McKenna's Novelty Theory: Terence McKenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This theory has been shown to be non-scientific and it is not accepted in the scientific/rational world.

The original request was for more evidence of cultures possibly supporting a 2012 end date. Terrance McKenna "interpreted" the Chinese King Wen just as others have "interpreted" the Dresden Codex of the Maya.

To say one is true and one is not is or one is culturally supported and one is not is a ludicrous supposition. After all, they are translations and interpretations of codices. Are you going to say the attached is an Egyptian helicopter, tank, or plane? One could suggest its meaning, but it is all speculation. The Mayans do not actually say the "end of the world" is in 2012! That is a common misconception. Quit critiquing semantics and get to the point of the threads.

Please forgive the following sarcasm.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing the point. You originally said that other cultures attached some form of significance to the year 2012. To date you have not presented any evidence that any other cultures have ever attached any form of significance to the year 2012. You have only said that one guy interpreted ancient Chinese symbols as having some significance to the year 2012, but this person's interpretation is not regarded as being scientifically valid or accepted.

Now, you have made the additional mistake of posting the "Abydos Helicopter" picture. This has been explained repeatedly as NOT showing a helicopter, tank, plane, UFO, or submarine. That image is the result of an optical illusion due to erosion and recarving. You can read about it here:
ufocom.org - This website is for sale! - Ufo Resources and Information.
Pharaoh's Helicopter?
"Helicopter Hieroglyph" Explained!

If you do not have any actual, scientifically valid/accepted evidence that other cultures on the planet have, or had, attached significance to the year 2012 (especially regarding end of the world significance) then I suggest that you stop replying to this thread.

 

[Seth]

blah blah blah blah blah, I can prove it:
Know-it-all - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here’s the point douche: A lot of the 2012 claims are interpretations of dead languages or codices. Apparently, you fail to see that because you are to busy trying to “prove” me wrong based on the word culture. You want to critique posts on semantics rather than contribute something meaningful.

Here’s the summary for those of you tired of reading us go back and forth (I am done with this thread after this point).

My contribution: Mckenna, King Wen, and the fact that these have been interpreted in the same way as the Maya codices makes them valid 2012 cultural relics because they are all based on speculation. Also, I posited an analogy of Egyptian hieroglyphics that many people misconstrue to be a helicopter similar to misinterpretations of McKenna and the Dresden Codec.

Your contribution: Incorrectly lookup King Wen, pretend China has not a culture, repost my timewave zero contribution in the form of novelty theory, and fail to see the similarities to an analogous (mis)interpretation of Egyptian hieroglyphics…oh, and rely heavily on wikipedia as a sole source for information.

I believe that about sums it up. Now I wait for an annoying, retaliatory remark from you showing how you were correct all along and that wikipedia is not your favorite site, this is: Temporarily Disabled

Good day.

 

[derekcbart]

blah blah blah blah blah, I can prove it:
Know-it-all - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here’s the point douche: A lot of the 2012 claims are interpretations of dead languages or codices. Apparently, you fail to see that because you are to busy trying to “prove” me wrong based on the word culture. You want to critique posts on semantics rather than contribute something meaningful.

Here’s the summary for those of you tired of reading us go back and forth (I am done with this thread after this point).

My contribution: Mckenna, King Wen, and the fact that these have been interpreted in the same way as the Maya codices makes them valid 2012 cultural relics because they are all based on speculation. Also, I posited an analogy of Egyptian hieroglyphics that many people misconstrue to be a helicopter similar to misinterpretations of McKenna and the Dresden Codec.

Your contribution: Incorrectly lookup King Wen, pretend China has not a culture, repost my timewave zero contribution in the form of novelty theory, and fail to see the similarities to an analogous (mis)interpretation of Egyptian hieroglyphics…oh, and rely heavily on wikipedia as a sole source for information.

I believe that about sums it up. Now I wait for an annoying, retaliatory remark from you showing how you were correct all along and that wikipedia is not your favorite site, this is: Temporarily Disabled

Good day.

Hi there.

First thing, the wolfand site is very cute. I have seen that before.

Now, the rebuttal.

1. The connection between the Maya and 2012 is not an interpretation of a dead language or codex. It is simply mathematics.

2. My criticisms of your evidence are not the result of "semantics". The reason why the word "culture(s)" is important in this current discussion is because that was the word used originally by Aponi in this post on this thread: http://theparacast.com/forums/2012-and-the-maya-t-189-2.html#pid14075

This is the definition I am using for "culture" from Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary: "5 a: the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b: the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life} shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>" link: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary

I then asked for evidence of other cultures (Aponi's word) that also placed significance on the year 2012 so that I could research the claim. No one has provided evidence of any culture that has placed significance on the year 2012 other than the Maya. BTW, the Maya didn't even place any significance on the year 2012. That is simply when they needed to buy a new Long Count Calendar.

3. Novelty Theory is the name that Terrence McKenna came up with. It is not a pejorative. McKenna says that "Timewave Zero" is part of his "Novelty Theory". You should also know that McKenna originally have the Timewave Zero ending in mid-November of 2012. He later changed it to match the end date of the Mayan Long Count Calendar.

4. The King Wen Sequence does not say anything about 2012. Only McKenna's interpretation of the sequence says anything about 2012.

5. I have never "pretended" that China does not have a culture. I have very clearly pointed out that the Chinese have never placed any significance on the year 2012. The only connection between 2012 and China is the interpretation of the King Wen Sequence that Terrence McKenna came up with. An interpretation that no scholar agrees with.

Finally, I tend to link to Wikipedia in these forums more often because Wikipedia generally has a more complete description of the various interpretations of events. i.e.: if a subject has multiple points of view then it tends to list the various viewpoints. Yes, Wikipedia can have problems from time to time, but I'm guessing that if I had only linked to the Skeptic's Dictionary then people would have said that my linking was biased.

 

[BrandonD]

Now, you have made the additional mistake of posting the "Abydos Helicopter" picture. This has been explained repeatedly as NOT showing a helicopter, tank, plane, UFO, or submarine. That image is the result of an optical illusion due to erosion and recarving. You can read about it here:
ufocom.org - This website is for sale! - Ufo Resources and Information.
Pharaoh's Helicopter?
"Helicopter Hieroglyph" Explained!

Wow they gave it a name: "palimpsest". That certainly explains that, now doesn't it?

People on both sides of an argument will swallow anything that their pet-authorities deign to feed them.

 

[Jose Collado]

Doomsday 2012 is a scam. There is NO historical evidence supporting either Nibiru, Planet X, 2012 doomsday or an involvement of the Mayan calendar.

What believers in this scam refuse to admit is, the Mayan's had THREE calendars. The one they refer to with their 2012 practical joke will enter it's 13th cycle in 2012. No big deal. All calendars end. Their logic would be the same as me selling the BS theory that our world will end at the end of our 12 month cycle.

The Sumarian carvings were being translated by Sitchin. He is a complete crank. Not only in my opinion, but by genuine archeologists of his time.

I swear, I could vomit blood every time someone mentions 2012, Mayan calendars, Nibiru or the end of the world.

 

[Brian Now]

What believers in this scam refuse to admit is, the Mayan's had THREE calendars. The one they refer to with their 2012 practical joke will enter it's 13th cycle in 2012. No big deal. All calendars end. T

I agree with you completely about 2012. The whole thing is absurd.
But when does the Gregorian Calendar end? I'm not aware of any end date.

 

[Kieran]

2012 just hope the worlds economy last till then. Maybe 2012 is when Steven Greer produces his free energy device and saves the world

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Yes, Maya peoplez who were barbaric, knew more than all of us today. Yes, 2012 will be the end of the world. Just like 1999, 2000, 2001 and last week. Thanks to killing 13 yr old virgins, they can see into the future.