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UFO Investigator Jeff Ritzmann to Reveal Personal Experiences on The Paracast

My 2 cents:

1.) Experiencers don't have an obligation to share anything at all.

2.) Researchers have an obligation to share everything, which means explaining why they edit. (Note: this doesn't include details they hold back to see if experiencers will make blind correlations.)

***

Researchers, such as Budd Hopkins, who do have an extensive data base of experiencer testimony need to reevaluate the big picture. It's a fine line but there has got to be a way to weed out delusional testimony from testimony you consider outlier. You can't have outliers of an unknown topic can you? You create outliers based on the amount of testimony you receive, but the type of testimony people give up is often (consciously or not) going to be based on what they think you're willing to hear.

So if 50 people come to you and say, "Gray doctors abduct me and do experiments" and 5 people come to you and say, "Tall light beings told me everything is going to be okay," well it's Hopkins' instinct to throw those 5 out or convince them it's a screen memory from the gray doctors. This may have made sense in the beginning but does it now that he must have heard hundreds of people talk about tall light beings? ("Well 200 people talk about lights beings. I'll throw that away because 5,000 people talked about gray doctors.") That doesn't make sense to me anymore unless you've got this story you need to preserve to "make sense of" the thing you've now forgotten is still AN UNKNOWN.

So who is delusional at that point?

Now, add to all of this that slowly but surely, all sorts of paranormal testimony creeps into both sets of people. The thing the light being experiencers and the gray doctor experiencers have in common is that they've both seen ghosts, or experienced poltergeist-like activity, or developed some sort of psychic powers. Maybe both feel a great responsibility to the environment or were seemingly taught similar things on board a "ship."

Now, add a final ingredient: Both sets of people, after some years, feel like this isn't aliens completely separate from us. Some claim to be alien souls who agreed to come here or a permutation of that story. Some don't believe that. They aren't able to articulate what exactly this 'bond" is between human and other. Still, they feel the bond, for better or for worse.

How much of that can you throw out 30 years into your research? How much of that can you cover over with "Oh it's just what the alien doctors want you to think and Stockholm Syndrome?"

When do you relent and reevaluate the alien doctors myth?
 
Of course i read it... I still don't understand who is leaving high wierdness points out of their stories, and where we are getting the idea from that they are actually doing it. Most of the abductee reports i've heard are pretty wierd.


You would think that! You'd think that because it's all weird to begin with experiencers wouldn't be shy but they are, even (maybe especially?) with each other.

That's one barrier.

The other is that...for example, Debbie Jordan, Hopkins's poster child for his gray doctor narrative has so much more to her experiences that he omits or contextualizes for the reader in ways that don't reflect the experiences. I don't mean to keep picking on Budd, he's just the easiest example because I've spoken to him and have become friends with Debbie. (She doesn't speak ill of him by the way. She loves him and is completely grateful that he was there for her.) So don't think I'm Budd-bashing, please.
 
"1.) Experiencers don't have an obligation to share anything at all.

2.) Researchers have an obligation to share everything, which means explaining why they edit. (Note: this doesn't include details they hold back to see if experiencers will make blind correlations.)"


Not an obligation, only an opportunity to, for those that have something to share and withhold, please don't ridicule others for doing so. They have their reasons too.

2. I defend Budd. He's stated why he's omitted things. I agree with his reasons. I'm no Budd Hopkins in terms of dealing with hundreds of abductees, but I have dealt with some. I withold some of what I've been told. Why? Cause it could be due to acid trips and lies. The waters are already muddied. If I were to include things in a book, I would draw certain lines. In fact, everyone here does. It would be a bigger problem if all of a sudden we just say, anything goes, we don't know, but yet, we do know when certain people express what they know, that goes against what I don't know but prefer to know. It makes a mockery of trying to understand. There are different methods in searching for truth. Not just one.
 
Jeremy,
Do you think Debbie Jordan's book, Abducted!: The Story of the Intruders Continues is a more rounded account of her experiences than Hopkins? (I've only read Hopkins' books and wondered if you'd recommend Debbie's?)
Thanks
 
Jeremy,
Do you think Debbie Jordan's book, Abducted!: The Story of the Intruders Continues is a more rounded account of her experiences than Hopkins? (I've only read Hopkins' books and wondered if you'd recommend Debbie's?)
Thanks


I've read both and even Debbie is unsure if there's a connection. She Does NOT link them together with certainty. She says it from the, what it's worth category. She wonders if there is, and maybe on a personal level thinks there is. But she's never been certain to my knowledge.

The book is worth reading, even if you've read Intruders imo.
 
"Well 200 people talk about lights beings. I'll throw that away because 5,000 people talked about gray doctors."
So who is delusional at that point?

One thing I always think about, if only one of the 200 people is somehow proved that they are telling the truth, or atleast not delusional... then it increases the chances of everyone else telling the truth by a large amount
 
I have dealt with some. I withold some of what I've been told. Why? Cause it could be due to acid trips and lies.

Does that include cases you think are legit? Have you found a a legit case where the person was also tripping or lying?

"He's stated why he's omitted things. I agree with his reasons."

--The reason he stated to me was the outlier deal I wrote above. I'm basing it on what he told me. We didn't get into other reasons.
 
Jeremy,
Do you think Debbie Jordan's book, Abducted!: The Story of the Intruders Continues is a more rounded account of her experiences than Hopkins? (I've only read Hopkins' books and wondered if you'd recommend Debbie's?)
Thanks

I haven't read it in ages but I don't think it's a retread of Intruders. It's what happened next. (Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong.)
 
My 2 cents:

1.) Experiencers don't have an obligation to share anything at all.

2.) Researchers have an obligation to share everything, which means explaining why they edit. (Note: this doesn't include details they hold back to see if experiencers will make blind correlations.)

***

Researchers, such as Budd Hopkins, who do have an extensive data base of experiencer testimony need to reevaluate the big picture. It's a fine line but there has got to be a way to weed out delusional testimony from testimony you consider outlier. You can't have outliers of an unknown topic can you? You create outliers based on the amount of testimony you receive, but the type of testimony people give up is often (consciously or not) going to be based on what they think you're willing to hear.

So if 50 people come to you and say, "Gray doctors abduct me and do experiments" and 5 people come to you and say, "Tall light beings told me everything is going to be okay," well it's Hopkins' instinct to throw those 5 out or convince them it's a screen memory from the gray doctors. This may have made sense in the beginning but does it now that he must have heard hundreds of people talk about tall light beings? ("Well 200 people talk about lights beings. I'll throw that away because 5,000 people talked about gray doctors.") That doesn't make sense to me anymore unless you've got this story you need to preserve to "make sense of" the thing you've now forgotten is still AN UNKNOWN.

So who is delusional at that point?

Now, add to all of this that slowly but surely, all sorts of paranormal testimony creeps into both sets of people. The thing the light being experiencers and the gray doctor experiencers have in common is that they've both seen ghosts, or experienced poltergeist-like activity, or developed some sort of psychic powers. Maybe both feel a great responsibility to the environment or were seemingly taught similar things on board a "ship."

Now, add a final ingredient: Both sets of people, after some years, feel like this isn't aliens completely separate from us. Some claim to be alien souls who agreed to come here or a permutation of that story. Some don't believe that. They aren't able to articulate what exactly this 'bond" is between human and other. Still, they feel the bond, for better or for worse.

How much of that can you throw out 30 years into your research? How much of that can you cover over with "Oh it's just what the alien doctors want you to think and Stockholm Syndrome?"

When do you relent and reevaluate the alien doctors myth?

Can extremely messy and convoluted. What if, when all is said and done, NONE of it turns out to be truthful? That its all deception and misdirection and the real story is something that no one is even slightly prepared for?

Whatever it is, it would be quite a story:D
 
It's gotta be something. Whether by design or not, the phenomena serve to remind us that we don't know shit, we just step in it.
 
It's gotta be something. Whether by design or not, the phenomena serve to remind us that we don't know shit, we just step in it.

Jeremy what did you think of Derek from IIG? I guess this is kinda off topic for the thread but whatever.

Do you think he really what he says he is... ie. a an open minded skeptic? Or do you think when it really comes down to it hes a debunker?

I think the latter for a variety of reasons. Lots of little things that really irked me.
 
Jeremy what did you think of Derek from IIG? I guess this is kinda off topic for the thread but whatever.

Do you think he really what he says he is... ie. a an open minded skeptic? Or do you think when it really comes down to it hes a debunker?

I think the latter for a variety of reasons. Lots of little things that really irked me.

I think he makes fun of this stuff with his skeptic friends (like he admitted on my show) on off time, but is all business when it comes to really investigating. I think if he were confronted with something truly paranormal or "alien" he would shit himself and admit it.

This is unlike James Randi and his ilk, who I believe ridicule this stuff straight through the investigations and probably investigate to feed their sense of self-righteousness. Guys like that would never admit to experiencing the paranormal, they'd probably justify it away or never mention it at all.

I should add that Dr. Matloff, the astrophysicist from NASA who spoke at my convention, said he is friends with 2 hugely famous scientists who have had contact experiences. As in landings. And they will never go public with it because it's not provable that they weren't delusional at the time. Perhaps that's the responsible thing to do, but think about the ramifications there. How many of these guys who do laugh this stuff off or downplay it are closeted experiencers?

Hell, even Derek himself has had something like psychic experiences but he's decided to call them something else. Maybe he'll come explain that further here.
 
Ok, so with regards to abductions.. I am going to do some more research into it when i get time, and Aaron has recommended me a book (altho i'm still finishing Rich Dolans).
In the meantime though, from those who are either either abductees/experiencers or more well versed researchers..... do the aliens/ET's/whatever seem to be friendly/threatening/neither, and what reasons do you think for this?
For example, Jeff seems to describe his experiences as the NH's (non humans) as evil, but did they actually do anything that bad or did they just freak you out?

Thanks
 
Ok, so with regards to abductions.. I am going to do some more research into it when i get time, and Aaron has recommended me a book (altho i'm still finishing Rich Dolans).
In the meantime though, from those who are either either abductees/experiencers or more well versed researchers..... do the aliens/ET's/whatever seem to be friendly/threatening/neither, and what reasons do you think for this?
For example, Jeff seems to describe his experiences as the NH's (non humans) as evil, but did they actually do anything that bad or did they just freak you out?

Thanks

Im not an experiencer but I can tell you they run the gamut. Friends, threatening and neutral experiences have been reported.

Since were tlkaing about abductions, Jeremy maybe you can answer this. I read Macks book Abduction a few years ago... would I be incorrect in saying that Mack is the only source of the whole "I am really an alien incarnated as a human" stories?
 
Im not an experiencer but I can tell you they run the gamut. Friends, threatening and neutral experiences have been reported.

Since were tlkaing about abductions, Jeremy maybe you can answer this. I read Macks book Abduction a few years ago... would I be incorrect in saying that Mack is the only source of the whole "I am really an alien incarnated as a human" stories?

Yeah that was around before Mack.
 
I always enjoy Jeff's visits to the Paracast.
Very interesting stuff.
However, I must say I find the whole thing hard to believe. I do think Jeff is telling what he believes to be the truth, but I feel that perhaps he suffers or suffered from some sort of epileptic episodes (or other medical condition).
I feel this is more likely than the chances that aliens from another planet or dimension have had him under their magnifying glass since childhood.
I'm sure Jeff, who himself looks at UFO events and experiences with a sceptic's eye, can understand my position.
 
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