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"Top questions and doubts about UFO whistleblower, Luis Elizondo "

Discussion in 'The UFO Forum' started by Christopher O'Brien, Jan 6, 2018.



  1. Frank Stalter

    Frank Stalter Paranormal Adept

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    That is correct. I did clean some things up at a blog article I started with a chat with Dr. Nolan but have added some things that should be of some interest since including a link to a paper on the possible ET materials by Professor Peter Sturrock and a presentation from Jacques Vallee.

    The UFO Partisan: The Science Behind The Pentagon UFO Study
     
  2. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

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    Thank you, @Frank, for linking this. It is most informative and intriguing, particularly your question here and Nolan's response:

    "Q: Do any of these metamaterials have shape memory properties?

    DR. NOLAN: They might, but I have not been following that area. My main interest is in quantum microscopes and how they might manage properties of electromagnetism and entanglement. I am particularly interested, and on record at several conferences, stating that entanglement might offer a whole new way to measure events at a distance for biological and clinical purposes."
     
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  3. MrBeliever

    MrBeliever Paranormal Adept

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    So, potentially new medical imaging technology using lessons learned from "alien" metamaterials... The wording is interesting. How far is "at a distance?" Could a quantum scope "measure events" across a wall? Across space? Could it be mounted on a satellite?
     
  4. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    Quantum entanglement operates instantaneously at any distance, regardless of any barriers, but I've never seen any kind of theoretical proposal that offers a method to transmit useful information in this way. And this paper calls into question the statistical modeling that resulted in the quantum entanglement interpretation in the first place, so it might not be a real phenomenon after all. Either way I can't see a viable physics model that would allow for the kind of applications that he's talking about there. If such an idea exists in the academic literature, I've never seen it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  5. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

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  6. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    Not forgetting Professor Emeritus of Psychology Robert Cialdini and his coined term "pre-suasion" fits into the whole scheme of classification of credible UFOs sightings and reports on the propulsion systems.
     
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  7. Erno86

    Erno86 Paranormal Adept

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    Thomas R. Morrison -

    I wonder if mental telepathy might be a possible way to transmit (at faster than light speed) useful information over vast interstellar distances.
     
  8. Frank Stalter

    Frank Stalter Paranormal Adept

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    It's my understanding one of the experiments in the Nolan/Green study tried to measure exactly that. Subject 1 is placed in an MRI in one location, Subject 2 in the same at some far distant place. The MRIs supposedly measure when the psychic projection is sent and received. Therefore, you get your answer.
     
  9. Wormwood

    Wormwood Skilled Investigator

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    Regarding Vallee, as I understand him. It isn't his contention that "ghosts do magical things and UFO's appear to do magical things also, therefore they are connected." Its more that the magical things they do are extraordinarily similar in form, function, and psychological affect on the observer. Examples, of varying verifiable strength which I have come across off the top of my head, some may be shaky, but they are in the literature. I wont be able to touch on or remember them all as they are so numerous:
    -Abductees and close encounter witnesses develop a lot of the strange after-affects which a great many NDE'rs report ie-"psychic" phenomenon, sensitivities towards electrical equipment, a new sense of purpose and spirituality, and often a strong message of interconnectedness. NDErs also (similarly to UFO witnessess, report telepathy as the main and preferred mode of communication with other conscious entities.
    -Abductees and close encounter witnesses often begin experiencing paranormal phenomena such as poltergeists/ghosts etc
    -Abductees and close encounter witnesses experience similar and bizarre synchronicities as reported in hauntings, cryptid encounters etc (ie-like strange visitations from owls before, during, or after the encounter.
    -Abductees and close encounter witnesses often report an overwhelming sense of dread OR sometimes love. Often these emotions are heightened and experienced on a level never before noticed or experienced. We also get reports of this when people encounter cryptids, ghosts, demons etc etc.
    -Abductees, haunting victims, close encounter experiencers, cryptid experiencers commonly report smelling sulfur, or rotten eggs before, during, or after the phenomenon
    -When UFO sightings increase (as they typically do in waves), cryptid sightings go up

    The above list is much much bigger than I can currently recall. But it isnt just Vallees claim. Grant Cameron is essentially on board with this, Robbie Graham feels there is something else going on other than strict ETH, and Stanton Friedman (who is a proponent of ETH) also feels that something else may be afoot.

    It's possible that UFO's are also the harbingers of cryptid, fairly, ghost, and demon sightings. I personally think that idea is a stretch, but of course its within the realm of possibility. But whether or not they are behind the NDE phenomenon I think is a real stretch. Here's one thing I have noted in studying these phenomena that I have not heard anybody else touch upon collectively. There is also real crossover of phenomenon with regards to UFOs AND ghosts, hauntings, demonic phenomena etc. This commonality involves exposing people to this phenomenon while withholding absolute proof. It appears obvious that 1) People experience ghosts, demons, and UFOs and 2) These “entities” (while showing themselves) are also engaged in covering up any real proof. Time and time and time again cameras don’t work, film doesn’t develop, videos are mysteriously erased etc. I know people personally who have had this experience and it comes up ALL THE TIME in account after account.

    So, are ghosts, UFOS, and cryptids all born of and the result of the same coscious entities? Because they behave quite similarly in MANY ways. Or, are they distinct, but mutually involved in withholding absolute proof from humanity? Is this some “rule” that they are complicit in for some reason? It seems to me that they are all complicit mutually, if they are not the same thing.

    My personal OPINION is this. People with pre-birth memories frequently state that they remember “accepting a veil.” This veils purpose, apparently, is to cause temporary amnesia, so we forget who we really are in order that we may properly learn the lessons which we were sent here to learn. Are aliens aware of this? Are they looking after our spiritual development by withholding proof of other realms etc? Ghosts, demons, and cryptids all behave in the same way...

    Red Pill Junkie wrote a fantastic writeup discussing the similarities between NDE's, and UFO abduction Phenomena/close encounters

    Exploring Overlapping Themes Between NDEs and UFO/Alien Encounters – The Daily Grail

    It's also worth noting that that Robert Monroe and others (OBE practicioners and world reknowned experts) do discuss civilisations that operate in the non-physical realm (as we know it). I suppose we'd call it inter dimensional travel. Folk arrive here in our physical dimension using a technology that enables them to 'manifest' here. So they are 'mental or psychological' in the one sense we first become aware of them through non-physical senses. Strieber encounters agencies that are so far removed from us that they seem to be to us (at the very least) as we are to guinea pigs.

    Im not anti-ETH. But I think Vallee is absolutely right. It does lack severely in explanatory power in totality.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
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  10. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    That’s an interesting comment. My initial reaction was very dubious of this idea because there is no consensus in the academic arena that telepathy is even a real phenomenon. But after thinking about for awhile, I have to admit that telepathy is a very common recurring feature of a wide range of unexplained phenomena – one of the top three features of such reports, I would think. So it seems that if we accept any class of paranormal reports to be real in the physical sense, then telepathy would likely be real as well.

    In fact I’m inclined to put telepathy and precognition into the same class – both are experienced as some kind of nonverbal inner knowing; they both seem to be examples of a “second sight” – perception in the absence of any conventional human sensing apparatus.

    So in that case it’s possible that both telepathy and precognition point to perception through an additional dimension which only our consciousness itself can apprehend, and I mean that very literally: it’s known that the human mind can learn to understand an additional spatial dimension by watching video animations of motion in 4 spatial dimensions.

    It might be interesting to train some volunteers to perceive in extra dimensions like that, and then see if they report a higher number of telepathy and precognition experiences than a control group, in a double-blind study.

    Incredibly, there’s a compelling theoretical physics basis for this line of thought: one of my favorite theoretical physics geniuses, Dr. Itzhak Bars at USC, has published a series of fascinating papers about a specific gauge symmetry that makes a 4-space and 2-time dimension universe appear as a 3-space and 1-time dimension universe: a 4D “shadow” of a higher 6D physical reality. Here’s one of his papers about what he calls “2T Physics.”

    In fact I first encountered the idea of two time dimensions in the metaphysics literature. Apparently mystics use the term “eternity” to refer to this additional dimension of time, which operates orthogonally to the familiar dimension of time. In one book I read, the underlying mystical significance of the Christian cross was interpreted as a depiction of ordinary linear time (the horizontal line) intersecting with the additional time dimension of eternity at the instant of “now,” which is considered to be the doorway to a state of fully awakened human consciousness (aka “enlightenment”). I think it would explain a great deal if the state of enlightenment discussed in mystical literature entails the perception of higher dimensions of space and time.

    It’s very interesting to consider the idea of a second dimension of time. If the human mind could somehow move in a second dimension of time, then you could get a “bird’s eye view” of the ordinary linear timeline and see a complete segment of the past and future, instead of the single point that we call “now.” For example, could know what somebody was going to say before they said it: that sure sounds like telepathy to me. And here’s the kicker – it would be a paradox to respond to something that somebody was about to say and thereby pre-empt them from saying it at all, if time were one dimension; but the additional time dimension defines a 2D plane, so a causal sequence could be circular instead of a straight line, and cause the timeline to branch in any one of an infinite number of directions from each point in time. So the paradox vanishes.

    If we go a step further and consider the possibility that some intelligent alien beings are already apprehending a second dimension of time, then we would be like Flatlanders to them. That might explain why alien visitors don’t bother talking to us – it would be akin to us talking to a fluke worm.

    That’s really provocative. Do you have a link to that study? I’d love to read it.

    There’s a whole lot in there – too much to respond to in detail. But I will say this much: the similarities that you’ve pointed out between many disparate phenomena, strike me as evidence of an entirely new but subtle realm of reality which has consistent structure and features, akin to the structured physical laws that we already know about. So the similarities you’ve noted don’t necessarily mean that these various kinds of phenomena are related to each other; it might only mean that the fundamental nature of their existence is associated with the same elusive aspect of reality.

    In other words, all of our modern physics is about looking outward at physical reality. But there may be aspects of reality that can’t be understood with that methodology – to understand this other aspect of existence it may be necessary to explore inwardly using our consciousness instead of using external physical instruments. That’s an alien world to us in modern Western civilization, because we almost never look inward. But it was a common practice for thousands of years in myriad mystical traditions. I often wonder what might be possible for someone who has devoted a great deal of their time to inward-directed explorations; maybe it’s possible to journey out of the physical body to explore the universe, maybe it’s possible to gain insight into the underlying structure of physical reality in this manner, and maybe it’s even possible to develop some kind of technology or at least procedural systems to accomplish all kinds of unexpected things that are inconceivable within the edifice of objective physics as we understand it today.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
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  11. Wormwood

    Wormwood Skilled Investigator

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    Love your post Thomas. Agree with the vast majority of it. I’m going to start a thread on this topic. I don’t tend to think all of those phenomena are the result of the same conscious beings, though they COULD be. Like you, i feel they can access other realms and abilities which seem magical and alien to us due to our lack of ability, technology, spirituality, understanding or what have you. As much as I wrote, I neglected to mention a very key aspect of Vallees theory. That this sort of phenomenon (UFO) seems to have been occurring all throughout human history but in different forms. Fairies, or the airship sightings of the late 1800s (where the pilots sometimes interacted with people and made absurd statements and requests), dragons etc etc. And in many of these instances, these entities of past were said to sometimes abduct people, cause paralysis, and temporary amnesia.

    So his contention (which is quite wise in my opinion) is that these beings have operated trough most human history in order to exert some form of social influence. They create a myth about themselves relative to the society they are operating in. In our case, this happens to be beings from outer space.

    All that said, my opinion, maybe we ARE being visited by beings from outer space. That cannot be easily ruled out and it makes sense for a variety of reasons. But it’s full scope explanatory power given what we know is weak IMO. And I don’t think it’s wise for anybody to say they KNOW for sure either way
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
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  12. DROBNJAK

    DROBNJAK Paranormal Adept

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    Telepathy is live and well and it was well understood phenomena since end of WWII.

    To be honest that came to great surprise to myself. During WWII radar technicians started complaining about crackling noises they were hearing inside their heads. Matter was taken seriously and for about next 10 years many scientific papers looked into it. The end result were successful experiments where music and words were projected directly into subject's head with microwaves. Unfortunately, early on, it was found that it was causing brain cancer, so research was sopped.

    The way experiments worked was, there was brain area around the inner ear, which is responsible for sound processing. Because brain tissue is quite conductive, EM waves can be shaped accordingly to produce mechanical movement in that part of the brain. Actually quite simple.

    Later on new techniques were developed that used the same principles, but used ultrasound instead of the microwaves. Actually, some time ago there was a toy on Kickstarter inducing 'telepathy' with ultrasound.

    There are quite few very good documentaries on YT and few white papers around.

    Most of alien telepathy that contactees and abductees talk about is likely produced with EM or ultrasound.

    This type of thing, where abductees/contactees talk about some far fetched technology and than we develop our own technology of the same kind is one of the ways to prove that UFOs exist. Very similar to when contactees make scientific predictions, like Fry and Lazar.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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