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"Top questions and doubts about UFO whistleblower, Luis Elizondo "

Discussion in 'The UFO Forum' started by Christopher O'Brien, Jan 6, 2018.



  1. Christopher O'Brien

    Christopher O'Brien Back in the Saddle Aginn Staff Member

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    By John Rappoport

    Article HERE:

    ...For far too long, government insiders who offer UFO “revelations have been given a free pass. They should be treated like any other sources for breaking stories. “Your information is fascinating, but I have lots of questions about you and your background.”

    There is a history of these insiders spreading disinformation or lies mixed with truth. This is how intelligence and propaganda operatives work. For instance, they could present tidbits about actual UFO sightings along with false claims about recovering “alien bodies.” Those latter claims would be part of their covert agenda.

    Suppose secret government/corporate programs have been using the stolen work of Tesla and other outlier researchers to achieve advanced propulsion technology? They cover up that fact by spinning tales about alien ET tech. I’m not asserting that’s what happened, but it would illustrate why they would float lies…

    Journalism—by which I mean independent journalism—should be miles past the point of asking softball questions and naïvely accepting “breakthrough revelations” from government sources.

    In the wake of recent NY Times UFO disclosures from Luis Elizondo, a former intelligence operative who headed up a secret Pentagon program to study UFOs, many questions arise. Not one reporter who has gained access to Elizondo has publicly queried him at length about his suspect background in the intelligence community. It would be more than interesting to get serious answers from Mr. Elizondo. They would provide a new jumping off point for further investigation.

    Vetting a government insider isn’t easy. You ask many questions, you observe how he answers them, you keep pressing and probing and form your best assessment of the person. You don’t just lie down and accept him running you over like steamroller.

    Here are questions Mr. Elizondo should respond to: REST OF ARTICLE HERE:
     
  2. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    While I would love to see an actual long-form interview with Luis Elizondo to get deeper knowledge of his experiences at the Pentagon and to hear more about his background, I found this bizarre and paranoid article by Jon Rappoport to be dripping with bias and innuendo. All of his questions are phrased in such a darkly leading manner that they read more like accusations than honest inquiries. This is poor journalism.

    If he actually wanted answers to these kinds of questions, then why not just write to Luis Elizondo and ask for an interview, like a real professional journalist would do?

    Instead, he poses his leading questions in the form of an article, and asks the reader to regard Luis Elizondo with deep suspicion until we have all of the answers.

    I have a better idea – maybe we should take a harder look at the mudslinging writers who write these kinds of hit pieces. So that’s what I did, and here’s a sample of what I found:

    “[Jon Rappoport] is, for instance, a germ theory denialist, and in his post “Germ theory and depopulation” (discussed here) he argues that “in general, so-called contagious diseases are caused, not by germs, but by IMMUNE SYSTEMS THAT ARE TOO WEAK TO FIGHT OFF THOSE GERMS” (yes, the capitalization is in the original). Indeed, “GERMS ARE A COVER STORY. What do they cover up? The fact that immune systems are the more basic target for depopulation and debilitation of populations.” The main tool is of course vaccines, which are weapons the nefarious powers that be use to kill off, well, it is a bit hard to see, partially because Rappoport’s post is mostly all-caps from there.”
    Encyclopedia of American Loons: #1050: Jon Rappoport

    He’s also a regular guest on Alex Jones’ InfoWars. Here’s a recent interview - have a look and make up your own mind:



    Sure, we should maintain a healthy skepticism of all stories in the mainstream press, especially nowadays with the corporate news media McCarthyists pushing factless conspiracy theories 24/7. But that also means that we should regard the journalists writing these articles with the same level of suspicion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  3. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

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    Ahh..., yes, spinergy in motion while discrediting the author, who I don’t necessarily care for.

    Very good questions that most likely will go unanswered, as the fervent faithful of the flock cry, “unfair & hostile”…. lol
     
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  4. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    Nah - I just believe in having pertinent facts on hand before impugning a man's character. Call me old-fashioned.
     
  5. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

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    Tom.., if you didn’t notice, the title of the thread is …?
    Then again, Gene & I are just "a couple of head cases" right?
    One more observation; anyone who makes such lofty claims deserves to be placed in the crosshairs, and under the critical lenses. Whether your hero, or mine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  6. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    I have no problems with questions; in fact I value knowledge deeply. I do have a problem with this author’s line of questioning though, which sounds more like a cop interrogating a perp while casting all kinds of wild allegations and innuendos along the way:

    “Mr. Elizondo, in your extensive high-level work as an intelligence case officer, did you ever plant stories in the press? False stories? If not, let me put it to you this way: if you had seen the value of planting a false story, in order to move a covert operation forward, would you have done it?

    Mr. Elizondo, you resigned from the Pentagon in October. Almost immediately, you began revealing secret UFO information to the public and the press. What about your non-disclosure agreements with the government? You violated them, didn’t you?

    Did you have permission from the government to ignore those agreements? If so, how did you arrange that?

    If not, what has the government told you about your violations?”

    I mean, Christ – the sleazy innuendo and thinly veiled allegations in that line of questioning is so thick you could cut it with a knife. That's not journalism; that's a hack job.

    Don’t drag Gene into this, he’s simply a skeptic. But I think it’s hilarious that you’re still butthurt about that remark I made about you and Hollywood Tomfortas nearly two weeks ago…LOL:

    And to be fair, it is basically impossible to tell one from the other online nowadays, and both are extremely prevalent. Common, really.

    Well that’s where we part ways then. Because where I come from, it’s one thing to ask pertinent questions to get meaningful information, and it’s another thing to cast aspersions against a man’s character after he’s spent his entire life honorably serving his country fighting terrorism and so forth. Where I come from we have a term for people who undermine a man’s reputation with absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever: “bottom feeders.”

    But I guess not everyone is raised with honor, so I probably shouldn’t take it so personally.
     
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  7. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

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    You talk about attacking ones character… lol

    In the way you have responded here, I’m not so sure who’s butt sore/anal probed, as not having been abducted.

    In having an acute case of believer fever, I was simply attempting to talk you down.

    On final note whilst jousting, and that is; it is truly amazing how ones persona online can be so entirely different than when on the air.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  8. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    My five pence:

    nope in fact I am not even going to invest that.

    My one pence:

    With the greatest respect to everyone, I have seen many, many, many, many incidences of 'UFO' "insiders" just make their credentials up, or embellish what they do have. I am not even that much into UFOs so I imagine that those in the know could give you a list as long as your arm of liars and charlatans.

    So if I am suspicious, I would imagine those more invested than my self my be even more so.

    At the end of the day, it seems that you can claim or say pretty much anything and people will believe you, I mean there is a real "Flat Earth Society" (with members around the GLOBE!, couldn't make it up... but that is another story)

    I am not in anyway saying Mr. Elizondo is lying or dishonest or anything like that, just that the waters are muddied already by people that have claimed similar things before, and turned out to be lying.

    Once bitten, twice shy.

    So he should expect serious questions that will be difficult to answer, but no one should be rude, or aggressive towards him of course, but a good journalist asks the hard questions. And I think we can all agree that a good journalist follows the information, not what they want to believe! (yes that goes out to both sides i.e sceptic and believer).

    What is interesting is that because I have been sidetracked recently, I haven't seen an interview with Mr. Elizondo yet, so I am writing this 'blind'.
     
  9. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

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    Although interacting here can be entertaining, educational and enjoyable, I can only hope that everyone has lives to lead out there in the real world.
     
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  10. mike

    mike Paranormal Adept

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    I actually think this common perception is a bit of a mirage myself.
    Text has always lacked the usual que's we are used to using in our interactions, hence the introduction of emoji's to try and fill this gap.
    Our individual passion for this topic, and our unique pov's are our best tool in deciphering the enigma imo.

    As for Mr Elizondo i'm sure hes well used to the uphill battle convincing others of his position is.

    As for Mr Rappoport. He has questions like we all do, but i find the way he went about it, essentially conducting the interview sans interviewee a bit unproductive.
    Imagine a podcast episode done that way ? Thats not an interview its just a rant.

    There are questions to be asked and answered, lets hope it can be done in a productive way that takes our understanding of this event and the genre in general forward.
     
  11. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    I give what I get. When some anonymous online poster resorts to the tired and flagrantly dishonest debate tactic of characterizing my perfectly reasonable argument as the ravings of some credulous religious zealot, then the gloves come off:
    And apparently that’s your favorite underhanded strategy – to attack someone’s character rather than their argument, because you just did it again:

    My position has nothing to do with belief. It has everything to do with these unassailable facts:

    1.) Luis Elizondo informed us about the existence of the AATIP that he directed at the Pentagon. This revelation has been confirmed by the Pentagon and Sen. Harry Reid.

    2.) He took great personal and professional risk to do so – he quit his job at the Pentagon to get this information out and his future now depends on the success of a risky venture with the To The Stars Academy. How many people have taken a similar risk to get significant information about this topic released? I can’t think of a single one in many decades.

    3.) He provided an impressive report backed by at least two of our top gun Navy fighter jet pilots, Cmdrs. Fravor and Slaight, as an example of the kind of credible cases that he investigated while directing the AATIP. Again, this is a first in perhaps 50 years. And Mr. Elizondo even got classified ATFLIR footage declassified and released to the press, which is historically unprecedented. If he hadn’t done so through proper official channels then he would’ve been arrested by now, because releasing classified military intelligence is a criminal offense that’s taken very seriously by federal law enforcement.

    4.) These efforts have completely reshaped the public conversation about this topic: the mainstream media is finally taking this subject seriously. Virtually overnight, witnesses like myself are no longer in the horrific position of facing open ridicule for sharing our highly exotic sighting experiences and discussing their enormous implications. So now scientists and ufologists alike have new license to publicly discuss and constructively debate the presence of unearthly technology in our skies. This is a major victory for every single one of us who takes this subject seriously.

    5.) We have every reason to believe that Mr. Elizondo’s credentials are 100% legit, because if they weren’t, the Pentagon would’ve publicly challenged them, and he probably would’ve been arrested (because surely it’s illegal to impersonate a Pentagon official and/or lie about one’s positions in the military and intelligence communities).

    6.) This story is facing substantial pushback from those within the counterintelligence community who didn’t want this story to come out.

    Given these facts, I frankly find the efforts to sow suspicion about this man and what he’s done, downright despicable. And you’ve been a prolific leading voice in those efforts from the beginning over in this thread. For example:

    I mean, look at all that stuff - it's like attacking Luis Elizondo's credibility is a full-time job for you. And you habitually characterize everyone who's excited about this story as a religious zealot.

    I’ve been following this story very closely, and I’ve seen/heard every interview that Luis Elizondo has given in recent weeks, and it’s absolutely crystal clear to me that this man is not only perhaps the best new ally that we here in the field of ufology have had in decades, but he’s also a straight-shooting patriot who has displayed a rare degree of courage and commitment to help us move this entire subject forward. And his ultimate objective – to understand and replicate the performance capabilities of these anomalous aerial devices – is identical to my own primary lifelong ambition. If we can actually engineer these capabilities, then we can absolutely transform human civilization and throw open the doors to interstellar spaceflight for our children.

    But many people seem to regard this as some kind of twisted juvenile game to see who can present the most cynical/jaded/sinister take on all of this. And they don’t care one bit about casting baseless aspersions against this man, and the people like me who apprehend the significance of these developments and what’s at stake – which is nothing less than the future of our species. If anyone doubts that last part, I would direct your attention to; the perilous neofeudal imbalance of the global economy, global warming, the epidemic of hopelessness/depression/anxiety around the world, the disastrous US policy of relentlessly obliterating entire nations for the war profiteers, and the mass extinction event that our civilization has triggered. Interstellar spaceflight capability and a potentially powerful new energy technology could turn all of that around. It’s the one real ray of hope that I can see to avert a new Dark Age that is already knocking on our door.

    So do I take all of this very seriously and bristle at those people like Jon Rappoport who eagerly cast suspicions upon people like Luis Elizondo who are fighting for public awareness of this subject and also for a better and brighter future for humankind?

    You’re damn right I do. And if I step on anyone’s toes in the process, then I think they should sincerely ask themselves which side of history they’re standing on.

    Happily uforadio has compiled an excellent library of video and audio clips that include several interviews with Mr. Elizondo here:
    Pentagon UFO Study

    Here’s Luis Elizondo’s interview on CNN:


    It’s perfectly plain to me - and I would think anyone else with a reasonably discerning mind - that this is an earnest man speaking frankly. Totally unlike shifty weasels/liars like Bob Lazar and Richard Doty. And for those folks who don’t trust their own sense of character, I suppose all that I could offer them is a forensic analysis of Mr. Elizondo’s body language, which echoes my own impressions:
    Body Language Analysis №4155: Luis Elizondo Interview — Former Military Intelligence Official Who…
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  12. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

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    You new perfectly well what you were doing in discrediting someone who posed valid questions calling your hero's character into question.
    Get over it.
    If referring to yourself .., yes I would say that indeed you are a character.
    Get over it.

    The rest of what you are grieving about are my opinions, which may very well bare to be as fact.
    Get over it.

    I do believe there is a ignore feature available .., use it, or get over it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  13. mike

    mike Paranormal Adept

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    C'mon guys.
    Lets avoid overcharged language, I don't think anyone here thinks Luis is their "hero".
    Lets argue the data points of the case and not the characters of those participating in the discussion.

    Mr Elizondo has signed up here and has said he will provide more information when he has a chance. I'm sure there are any number of forums who would love to have such an opportunity.

    Lets please keep cool heads and not spoil a good chance to engage him directly.

    Having him as a guest on the Paracast would be wonderful thing for us all.
    Passion is expected, but lets not let it devolve into hostility.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
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  14. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

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    Tell that to the leader of your tribe, as I forgot about the bickering hours ago.
     
  15. USI Calgary

    USI Calgary J. Randall Murphy

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    This whole conversation is an example of the reason I'm still reserving judgement. On one hand I'm tempted to think Elizondo saw the opportunity to get in on the 2TS venture and timed his retirement to take advantage of it, which would make him more of an opportunist than someone who really wants to see the truth get out. On the other hand, there's the possibility that he could represent a legitimate wedge in the door, regardless of his personal motives. I don't know. We may never know. We have to wait and see.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  16. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

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    I wonder if Chris is reading this and wondering "what the hell" is going on here?
     
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  17. mike

    mike Paranormal Adept

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    Wonderful . Thank you.

    You are a credit to your occupation...................
     
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  18. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

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    Yes indeed, as it is truly a labor of love ...
     
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  19. mike

    mike Paranormal Adept

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    At the risk of sounding like i'm taking sides, which i want to avoid.

    If Mr Elizondo's account is honest and ive seen nothing to suggest it isnt.
    Then hes on the same page as we are. He even had the strength of conviction to stand up for what he believed in and quit his job over this.

    If thats truly what went down, then we should be embracing his narrative and working with him to look at this mystery.

    Its the biggest question our species will ever ask. Are we alone ?

    He may have data that will help us with that question. That has to be worth some patience.

    I can feel it in my water, 2018 is going to be very very interesting.........

    It could be the year that history is made for our species, and here at the Paracast we get to be a part of that.
     
  20. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    I can totally understand why people want to wait and see where this is going before making up their minds about it.

    But here's the thing - Luis Elizondo has already given us three things that we didn't have just one month ago: 1.) knowledge of the AATIP, which we would never have gotten without him, 2.) a fascinating case with the very credible testimony of two highly reputable fighter pilots, and 3.) a press campaign so compelling that the mainstream media is finally taking this subject seriously for the first time in my life. Even the skeptical Time Magazine Science Editor admitted on national television that this could be evidence of extraterrestrial technology, for cryin' out loud.

    Those three factors buy Mr. Elizondo the benefit of the doubt and some patience to see what comes next, in my book. And let's not forget, there's a third video clip that we still haven't even seen yet, so we know that more is coming. The only question remaining is just how much more. To hear Leslie Kean talk about it, what we've seen so far is just the first shot across the bow.

    So I have no respect for the cynics whose first and persistent reaction to all of this has been suspicion, shady innuendos, and grousing. From where I'm sitting, we were given a pony for Christmas, and yet some folks can only complain that it's either not big enough or it's some kind of Trojan horse. That's an incredibly empty, ungrateful, and wholly unjustified response, imo.

    If someone wants us to regard all of this with suspicion and/or contempt, then I want to see some basis in fact for that position. But so far, they've offered nothing, because they have nothing to support their stance: just a bunch of snide remarks and cynical leading questions. And that's just not good enough, because this is an exciting development and Luis Elizondo et al. have earned the opportunity to show us what else they've got up their sleeves before we go harping on them for no good reason at all.

    Hopefully Mr. Elizondo and perhaps Steve Justice will appear on The Paracast so we can get more of the answers that we'd all like to have, because the 2-5-minute interviews that we've seen in the news lately are entirely insufficient for a story this big and complex. And, like mike here, something tells me that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg and 2018 promises to be a very exciting year for ufology.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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