The Reason Why The Abduction phenomena Gets No where

[mike]

Mr Streiber has posted excerpts from his new book here

http://www.communionenigma.com/

The audio excerpts are well worth a listen imo

 

[tyder001]

Please fill me in.

I first came across him (Nigel Kerner) on a podcast and recently he was on the Richard Syrett (The Conspiracy Show) podcast. He seems to think that the "Greys" are a kind of robotic probe that was sent out by a very advanced race long ago. I am interested in his book but so far Amazon is charging around $14 for a five year old ebook for Kindle and I'm kind of stubborn. Anyway, he thinks that the Greys are interested in the human "soul." He thinks that they are trying to harvest the part of us that will give them the ability to be spritual as well as biological. A hybrid of some sort. Anyway, it gets kind of convouluted and I can't say it makes perfect sense. But, it's interesting and when you get right down to it. Who really knows what's going on? He also is on a Red Ice Creations podcast that you can access via youtube. Anyway, if you do check him out I would love to know what you think of his theories.

 

[Posey Gilbert]

I first came across him (Nigel Kerner) on a podcast and recently he was on the Richard Syrett (The Conspiracy Show) podcast. He seems to think that the "Greys" are a kind of robotic probe that was sent out by a very advanced race long ago. I am interested in his book but so far Amazon is charging around $14 for a five year old ebook for Kindle and I'm kind of stubborn. Anyway, he thinks that the Greys are interested in the human "soul." He thinks that they are trying to harvest the part of us that will give them the ability to be spritual as well as biological. A hybrid of some sort. Anyway, it gets kind of convouluted and I can't say it makes perfect sense. But, it's interesting and when you get right down to it. Who really knows what's going on? He also is on a Red Ice Creations podcast that you can access via youtube. Anyway, if you do check him out I would love to know what you think of his theories.

Interesting I have a similar "Belief."
I think that some of the so called "Greys", but not all of them were, designed as tools of the Annunaki used to harvest the Apeman which they genetically altered into Mankind (A kind of a man) to be their Worker Race (Slaves) while they were here on Earth.
I think the Annunaki left these things in the area to upgrade their creation Mankind, but over time these creatures started to want to be as man is, able to do reproduce and act governed solely by its own will.

See my article: The Sin Of The Gods.​

http://templeoftheinfidel.com/SinOfTheGods0.html​

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[tyder001]

Interesting link. A lot to take in but well written.

 

[Posey Gilbert]

I don't think they are space aliens. I have had the experience of being in a state of trying to move and couldn't and trying to wake up but having a false awakening. Then I would have the thought "Just give in and go with it." But, then I fought because it just seemed like I shouldn't give in. I have felt a long almost rubbery neck as I fought and years ago I manager to say Jesus and I was releashed. Now, was it a dream or sleep paralysis? Yeah, I guess so. Was it an abduction? No, or at least I don't remember ever thinking they were abducting me. I don't think I am a abductiee and most of what I remember can be put down to sleep paralysis. But, it sometimes makes me wonder about the similarity to alien abduction accounts. I think that is what some skeptics use to pooh pooh the whole thing. I think they are wrong but still that's what a lot of them say. I don't think we are being visited by outer space folks. But, I do think we are more than the sum of our parts. I work with a lady who is black and much younger than me. I call her (matter of fact her close friends call her) an old soul. She is just a calm and collected person and when she is going through stuff her faith and prayer is how she makes it through. So, I've told her a couple of dreams that I've had that have been lucid and even dreams where I "know" things that will and can happen. But, she will tell me it's "of the devil." So, maybe that's kind of what you mean about people not feeling comfortable sharing. People want to put all of life in a box. Anyway, thanks for sharing your stories here Posey. Have you been on any podcast or shows?

I've have had Hag and Witch Ridings before, or sleep paralysis as it is now being called.
This occurs when you are sleeping but not when you are wide awake, it does not physically move you or things in the room you are in nor manipulate matter.
There is a difference with Abductions, and its only the skeptics that either through lack of experience, or they deliberately confuse these two very different phenomena.
Why were my five dogs unable to move when "They" came for me?
Why could they only whimper and struggle to move as I was being carried out?
Why could I not awake my two brothers whom slept with me as a child when this happened back then?
Why couldn't my parents nor my sisters in the next rooms not hear me screaming for my life?
If it was sleep paralysis how the hell could I scream anyway?
Sleep paralysis and vivid dreams could not leave a thirty foot circle in a foot of snow on the roof outside our bedroom window, or two twenty one foot circles side by side at my Abduction Site, could it?
Sleep paralysis and vivid dreams don't leave you bleeding, or with punctures. cuts, and bruises do they?
What the hell has any of those things got to do with sleep paralysis?
Nothing, and that is why the Skeptics don't talk about those parts in the Abduction Phenomena.

I don't know what "They" are either only that "They" are.​

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The Nonts​

http://templeoftheinfidel.com/TheNonts.html​

My Pod Casts can be found at:​

The bottom of the Now Playing Page in the On Ye Radio section​

http://templeoftheinfidel.com/Nowplaying.html​

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[dr.abbadon]

Even if alien abductions were real how would one go about proving it? Nothing really makes sense that wouldn't raise ethical issues. The encounter narratives seem to have all possible avenues for practical research blocked from the start: the witnesses claim the ships and even the beings themselves can be invisible or pass through solid material, that they can read and control thoughts, that the abductees are monitored, sometimes even that the entities can manipulate time, etc. Assuming those things were true, a pretty giant assumption, how does a scientist go about proving that something like that is factual, especially if it's intelligent and has an interest in not being proven? Not saying this stuff is true, just that if it was what could science do anyway? Probably little so why waste their time on something that probably isn't real in the first place and even if it were is so far outside the boundaries of what science can deal with it would be a waste of effort?

At the least 99% of this stuff has got to be nonsense: crazy people, hoaxers, flakes, mistaken sleep paralysis, the me-too crowd, and likely the biggest culprit: fictional memories made to feel real by hypnosis. Even Sammy Hagar thinks he's an abductee because of a dream he had. A dream?! That's all it takes to adopt such a dramatic belief?

There's a few cases that seem a bit more mysterious than usual, like Kelly Cahill (Mentioned above by someone else), Betty and Barney Hill, and the Allagash case. But those are rare, just a ripple in an ocean of nonsense reports. Even those few fall far short of what the scientific method demands.

Given all that it seems silly to me to expect scientists to get in bed with this issue. First of all, there's barely anything worthwhile to investigate. Secondly, despite a few interesting cases the so-called phenomenon probably isn't real, and third, even if it is real what could scientists possibly do about it? They wouldn't get any further along with it than anyone else has and that time could be better spent doing something where success is a possibility.

1988, DNA Sample From Khoury Abduction Raises Big Questions

Mystery Blonde Leaves Hair Behind -- But Who Was She?

An abduction case from Australia has resulted in what may be the world's first DNA test of abduction-related biological material.

The intriguing results raise many questions about the physical nature of abduction and also illustrate the need for more intensive scientific research on this worldwide mystery.

The full case report by leading Australian researcher Bill Chalker was published in the Spring 1999 edition of International UFO Reporter, the quarterly journal of the Chicago-based J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS). The following summary is published with Chalker's permission and assistance.

Peter Khoury, the subject of this case, was born in Lebanon in 1964 and moved to Australia in 1973. There he met his future wife Vivian at school in 1981. Peter and Vivian were married in 1990 and now have two children. They live in Sydney. Peter works in the building trades and has owned his own business in cement rendering.

Peter and Vivian had their first UFO experience in February 1988, a simple sighting of unusual moving lights. But in July of that year, Peter had a deeply disturbing, consciously remembered contact experience that, he says, changed his life. While lying on his bed, he felt something grab his ankles. He suddenly felt numb and paralyzed, but remained conscious.

Then he noticed three or four small hooded figures alongside the bed. He experienced telepathic communication with one or more of these beings; he was told to relax and not be afraid because "it would be like last time." He then saw that they were about to insert a long needle into the side of his head, whereupon he blacked out.

He jolted awake some time later, leaped out of bed and ran into the living room where he found his father and brother apparently dozing. Both he and his brother felt that only 10 minutes had passed since they had last been awake, but they soon realized that an hour or more had passed. The next morning, Peter and Vivian noticed that there was an obvious puncture mark on the side of his head, with a trace of dried blood.

At this time, Peter had never heard of alien abduction. His memories were vivid and alarming, but he could find neither answers nor comfort from friends and acquaintances. Then, some months later, he and Vivian drove by a roadside billboard with an image of Whitley Strieber's book "Communion," and they immediately got the book. Peter found numerous details in Strieber's account that matched his own strange experience.

Peter's subsequent attempts to connect with local UFO groups and experiencers proved frustrating. Eventually, in April 1993, he resolved to found a new group in Sydney, the UFO Experience Support Association (UFOESA), dedicated to helping people understand and cope with their unusual encounters. He remains the coordinator of that group today.

In July 1992, Peter had the experience that became the focus of this case study. Because the experience had disturbing sexual aspects, Peter was very reticent to talk about it. He first mentioned it to Bill Chalker, one of Australia's leading researchers, in 1996. He showed Chalker that he had recovered an unusual strand of hair from the encounter.

At the time, Chalker felt he could not do anything with the physical evidence, but over the next several years, he assembled a group of scientists and forensic investigators willing to work on UFO-related cases.

With his "invisible college" associates, Chalker discussed the possibility of doing polymerase chain reaction (PCR) amplification and sequencing of mitochondrial DNA that might be recovered from Peter Khoury's hair sample. In early 1998, these researchers -- now calling themselves the Anomaly Physical Evidence Group -- agreed to do the DNA testing on the hair sample.

Chalker points out that "alien" beings are most often described by experiencers as having no visible hair. But one type -- sometimes called "Nordic" -- is described fairly often as having distinctly human-like features including hair, often (though not always) blond in color.

A number of well-known abduction cases have involved human-looking beings with hair, including the 1975 abduction reported by Travis Walton in Arizona, and the 1957 Brazilian abduction reported by Antonio Villas Boas. Peter Khoury's case has some similarity to that of Villas Boas, who said he was forced to have sex with an aggressive humanoid female aboard a landed UFO.

Khoury told Chalker that his encounter of July 23, 1992 began at 7:30 in the morning while he was in bed. He had recently been injured at work and was taking pain medication. Earlier that morning, he had driven his wife to work, then returned home and went back to bed for a short while. Suddenly, he bolted wide awake and sat up. There were two humanoid females sitting on the bed, both entirely naked.

These two women looked human in nearly every way. They had well proportioned adult bodies. One looked somewhat Asian, with straight dark shoulder-length hair and dark eyes. The other looked perhaps Scandinavian, with light-colored ("maybe bluish") eyes and long blond hair that fell half-way down her back. Her hair was especially notable to Peter Khoury. "I had never seen a hair style like that. It was curled something like Farrah Fawcett, but to an extreme... It just looked really exotic in a way," he told Chalker.

But Khoury felt that these women were not exactly human. Their faces were somewhat odd -- not unattractive, but too chiseled, with very high cheekbones and eyes that were two or three times larger than normal. Khoury took special notice of the blonde. Her face was too long, he felt. "I have never seen a human looking like that," he said.

The blonde, who was sitting in a kneeling position on the bed, seemed to be in charge. Khoury thought she was communicating telepathically with the dark-haired woman, who was sitting with her legs partly folded under her. There was something stiff, almost blank, in the expressions of the women, Khoury thought.

Though stunned by the sudden appearance of the women, Khoury had only a few moments to consider how they could possibly have arrived in his bedroom before the blonde reached out with both her hands and cupped the back of his head, drawing his face toward her chest. He resisted. She pulled harder.

He kept pulling back. "She was pretty strong," he told Chalker. "She pulled me over and my mouth was basically on her nipple. And I bit."

Khoury said he doesn't know why he bit the woman, but even though he felt a small piece of her nipple come away in his teeth, she did not cry out. But "the expression on her face was like, 'this isn't the way.' In a way it was shock or confusion... She looked at the Asian one... and looked at me like, this isn't the way it's supposed to happen. You've done this wrong."

Involuntarily, Khoury swallowed the small fragment in his mouth, and it caught in his throat. He went into a coughing fit. Suddenly, the two women simply disappeared.

Once he realized the women were gone, he tried to clear his throat by drinking water. It didn't work. Then he had an urge to go to the bathroom. He realized that his penis felt very painful. Standing in the bathroom, he pulled back the foreskin and found two thin blond strands of hair wrapped tightly around.

He struggled to unravel the pieces of hair as the pain became an intense burning sensation. Finally he managed to removed the two pieces of hair and immediately put them in a small sealable plastic bag.

"The reason I did that was because I knew that there was no way, no way at all, that a hair that size and wrapped around the way it was should have been there.... Thinking of these women, the thing in my throat, the hair, something bizarre had just happened." Khoury resolved to keep the hair sample in case it should ever prove useful in shedding light on his experiences.

The thing in Khoury's throat stayed there for three days. He coughed constantly. He tried clearing his throat with water, bread, anything he could think of, but nothing helped. On the third day, the feeling in his throat just went away.

He did not want to tell his wife how his coughing fit had come about, but two weeks later he decided to tell her. "I was shocked," he told Chalker. "She accepted it better than I did."

The pieces of hair, carefully stored away since the encounter, became the subject of the first openly-reported scientific DNA test on a possible abduction-related sample.

The blond hairs were extremely thin and almost clear in color. It was determined that the hair was not chemically treated, because if it had been, little or no mitochondrial DNA could have been recovered. However, using the PCR (polymerase chain reaction) process, good quality DNA was recovered.

For comparison, samples were also taken of Peter Khoury's hair and that of his wife Vivian. DNA was successfully extracted from Peter's hair, but no usable DNA was recovered from Vivian's hair, possibly because of chemical treatment.

After thorough testing of the hair samples, the scientists of the Anomaly Physical Evidence Group arrived at a startling conclusion. The thin blond hair, which appeared to have come from a light-skinned caucasian-type woman, could not have come from a normal human of that racial type. Instead, though human, the hair showed five distinctive DNA markers that are characteristic of a rare sub-group of the Chinese Mongoloid racial type.

A detailed survey of the literature on variations in mitochondrial DNA, comprising tens of thousands of samples, showed only four other people on record with all five of the distinctive markers in the blond hair. All four were Chinese, with black hair.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed only from mother to child and therefore offers a means of tracing ancient ancestry on the mother's side. The findings suggest that all four of the Chinese subjects share a common female ancestor with the blonde woman. But there is no easy explanation for how this could be.

Testing for nuclear DNA, if such could be recovered from the blond hair, would be more complex and expensive than the tests run so far, but might show that the lineage of the blonde's father was even stranger than that of her mother. But such testing must await funding that has yet to be found. So far, the members of the Anomaly Physical Evidence Group have financed all their work themselves.

Without the blond hair sample, the story told by Peter Khoury is but one more in an almost endless sequence of wrenching, but unprovable, abduction accounts. The hair, however, changes everything. It undeniably exists, and thorough forensic testing shows that it is anomalous. It seems likely that no person with blond hair and an exact DNA match to Khoury's blonde could be found in the city of Sydney, nor on the continent of Australia, nor -- probably -- anywhere in the world.

Who then was the being whose blond hair inexplicably became wrapped around Peter Khoury's penis?

"Are we dealing with 'humans' from elsewhere, namely those with human DNA, albeit very rare and somewhat anomolous?" asks Bill Chalker. "This case raises all sorts of issues, such as human 'panspermia'" -- the theory that human-like beings may have migrated to Earth in the fairly recent past from elsewhere in the galaxy, perhaps giving rise to the sudden appearance of modern homo sapiens sapiens, a species not directly descended from their immediate predecessors, the Neanderthals.

"Also, given the Asian mongoloid connection, we looked at the problem of European-like rare Asian types in the past," Chalker says. "The controversial saga of the Taklamakan mummies in remote Western China is turning the early history of China on its head. These mummies include people who are quite tall, some 6 feet or so, and some are blond. I'm not suggesting a connection here, but you can understand this investigation has opened up all sorts of interesting possibilities about the biological nature of some of the beings implicated in abduction cases."

This is obviously all garbage as well?

I cringe every time I hear someone tell us that science has more important things to do (ie make more $$$ for big business) than work out something that has as much validity to examine as the struggle to find more chemicals for pharmaceutical companies to stuff down our throats & sell to get a long lasting erection, make our faces younger & get rid of our fat without leaving the couch, yes your right it is far more important!

 

[trainedobserver]

While an abduction event might include something akin to sleep paralysis there is no reason to think that all sleep paralysis events signal that an alien abduction has occurred.

The determining factor in what does or does not get the attention of the scientific community is economics. If you can't get funding you cannot buy equipment or pay staff. It is just that simple. Convincing someone with money to part with it to fund any given project is the most important step in hard scientific research. To do so, you must have something that has at least the perceived potential of economic return. People want to feel like they are not throwing their money down a hole.

 

[Posey Gilbert]

This is obviously all garbage as well?

I cringe every time I hear someone tell us that science has more important things to do (ie make more $$$ for big business) than work out something that has as much validity to examine as the struggle to find more chemicals for pharmaceutical companies to stuff down our throats & sell to get a long lasting erection, make our faces younger & get rid of our fat without leaving the couch, yes your right it is far more important!

Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!​

Well stated my friend.​

Excellent work!​

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[dr.abbadon]

While an abduction event might include something akin to sleep paralysis there is no reason to think that all sleep paralysis events signal that an alien abduction has occurred.

The determining factor in what does or does not get the attention of the scientific community is economics. If you can't get funding you cannot buy equipment or pay staff. It is just that simple. Convincing someone with money to part with it to fund any given project is the most important step in hard scientific research. To do so, you must have something that has at least the perceived potential of economic return. People want to feel like they are not throwing their money down a hole.

Hence the problem with the world today. My brother in law is a senior partner @ a civil engineering firm. He was in an accident and had to sit on his backside for 3 months. He decided to visit his local library to try and find something to pass the time on. He happened to chance on books relating to the history of mathematics. What he discovered was that the most amazing engineering techniques and mathematical concepts were derived from individuals who were living 1000's of years ago without the use of computers. These individuals, had the time to study the nature of things unencumbered by the weight of financial success or failure.

Archimedes palimpsest for example, explained that this man that could calculate the centre of gravity of a triangle in his mind abstractly. He had calculated the centre of gravity of a pyramid and an elipse. Archimedes had two volumes of work Codice A B & C (discovered much later) A & B were re discovered in the Renaissance by Leo Da Vinci 14 to 1500 ad Codice C was discovered in 1906 in a monastery in a prayer book by Johan Heiberg! 1906! Why is this important? Imagine were we would be now if we had access to these theories 1900 years ago?

 

[trainedobserver]

These individuals, had the time to study the nature of things unencumbered by the weight of financial success or failure.

There have always been individuals who for a variety of reasons are removed from the day to struggle for survival. That is the exception rather than the rule however. Also, someone who has worked out how to do complex calculations in their head most certainly had a real motivation to do so, whether that was linked to his livelihood or not doesn't subtract from the notion there must be some anticipated gain or benefit to justify the expenditure of time, effort, and treasure in any endeavor that requires some sacrifice of the participants.

 

[dr.abbadon]

There have always been individuals who for a variety of reasons are removed from the day to struggle for survival. That is the exception rather than the rule however. Also, someone who has worked out how to do complex calculations in their head most certainly had a real motivation to do so, whether that was linked to his livelihood or not doesn't subtract from the notion there must be some anticipated gain or benefit to justify the expenditure of time, effort, and treasure in any endeavor that requires some sacrifice of the participants.

I don't disagree with what you're suggesting. However you must agree, that at the rate of knots we are all trying to travel in today's world it doesn't leave alot of time for the the average person to bear the fruit of invention, exploration & contemplation even in the drudgery of their current occupations.

I suppose the most simple analogy of the sad state of the world we live in today, would be this wonderful quote by Epictetus, it makes you think if only?

"Nothing great is created suddenly, any more than a bunch of grapes or a fig. If you tell me that you desire a fig. I answer you that there must be time. Let it first blossom, then bear fruit, then ripen. "

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[Hotkafka]

Ten years ago I pulled this object from my back after something unseen sliced a split in me. It feels like it is made of a slick hard plastic it was about the size of an apple seed.

Do you remember what was going on or what you were doing when this "split" as you called it was created? And thanks for sharing your story, btw.