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The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis : Fact and Fallacy

Discussion in 'The UFO Forum' started by Thomas R Morrison, Oct 30, 2017.



  1. Trajanus

    Trajanus Paranormal Adept

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    I presume that happened because it was no longer deemed worth keeping under wraps. Whatever is behind the phenomenon does care about maintaining secrecy.
     
  2. Trajanus

    Trajanus Paranormal Adept

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    Agreed. Progress is limited at best or we'd see more of this.
    @blowfish: I just recall an accusation against Bill Moore as the perpetrator of MJ12 hoaxes. IIRC the source was The Randle Report.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  3. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    @Trajanus : Did Bill Moore sign a letter in front of a Justice of the Peace declaring his work on MJ12? Like to know who funded accused Bill Moore in the operation if that's the case.
     
  4. Trajanus

    Trajanus Paranormal Adept

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    Greenwood and Takanashi quite some time ago.
     
  5. marduk

    marduk quelling chaos since 2352BC

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    I highly recommend the book “Now: the Physics of Time.”
     
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  6. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    ETH : Puppet Masters and humans can use the environment and remind me of the Quote " The chief of Prussian secret Police dressed up as itinerant pedlar and romed Austria and Bohemia in horse and cart." The ETH could do the same if its technology has advanced beyond our wildest dreams .
     
  7. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    I could add that obviously there was time before there were clocks.
     
  8. marduk

    marduk quelling chaos since 2352BC

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    Well, to be fair almost anything can be a clock.

    Decay is a good one, as are crystal harmonics, etc. But you are also a clock, the earth is a clock, the galaxy is a clock. They all keep their own relative time that can be (somewhat) measured.

    Interestingly, the speed at which you perceive time may also be a clock as far as consciousness may be concerned.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  9. marduk

    marduk quelling chaos since 2352BC

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    It was actually the people who were experimented on that started coming forward to the press.
     
  10. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    In a sense, you're making my point for me there. Regardless of the mechanism, what is being measured is some sort of change. Without it, there is no time, at least not within the frame of reference of the mechanism in question. Whether it's crystal oscillations, isotope decay, moving cogs, heartbeats, it doesn't matter what it is, all the way from the largest macro level, down to the smallest micro level of whatever constitutes the existence of anything. So to actually stop time, you'd have to be able to stop all change that applies to all of that. Otherwise time isn't really stopped because there's still some sort of change taking place. I don't see any way around this. Do you?

    BTW: I checked out a review of the book you recommended ( Now: the Physics of Time ) and it looks good. I'll see if the library has it. Thanks for that :cool: .
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  11. marduk

    marduk quelling chaos since 2352BC

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    I’m not sure I agree - when you get close to absolute zero, time doesn’t slow down, but motion sure does.

    Not a lot of change happens close to that point.
     
  12. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    I've created a new thread called Time, Time Travel, and Closed Timelike Curves where we can continue talking about time in a thread dedicated to those subjects - my response to your post is there now.

    I feel like we've veered way off topic in this thread with our time discussions, so let's keep the time stuff in the new thread and we can always bring back relevant time-related ideas pertinent to the ETH once we've drawn meaningful connections between the two ideas.
     
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  13. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    Good plan. I'll leave this thought on the pertinence of time travel to the ETH before carrying on there. The ETH is a catchall term for any location off this world. So interplanetary, interstellar and space nomads, are under the ETH. But assuming time travel is possible, it seems the ETH wouldn't really apply unless the travellers came from some other point on this Earth's timeline. But if branching or fission of the timelines into separate worlds ( and consequently separate universes ) is involved, then it would seem that the other Earth would technically be extraterrestrial in relation to this one.
     
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  14. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    One of the reasons I tend to avoid the discussion about time travel in this context, is that so may people find it tempting to explain away all anomalous aerial devices as human technology from the future. And that's kind of an annoying debate to have. Because yes, absolutely - some of these devices could be arriving from our own future. But the exact same technology that makes that possible, also makes hyperfast spaceflight practicable. So if it's equally possible to travel halfway across the galaxy to visit the Earth within a span of five minutes, as it is for our human descendants to arrive from thousands of years into our future, then almost certainly both things are happening. And frankly I'm skeptical that the human race will continue to progress technologically for that long - we seem hellbent on self-annihilation.

    The multiverse concept makes for wonderful science fiction stories, but I just don't buy it - the idea that I create a new universe every time I flip a coin strikes me as preposterous. But if our 4D universe is nested within a 6D architecture, as Dr. Ithzak Bars has considered, all kinds of fascinating and bizarre possibilities present themselves that can have features similar to the multiverse idea, but without actually invoking additional universes.
     
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  15. marduk

    marduk quelling chaos since 2352BC

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    One thing Strieber said (there I go again) was that maybe the visitors encountered us at some random point - maybe even in the future. Then spread out along our timeline forwards and backwards.

    Maybe to them it's all just one 'now' and that's part of the reason we see them as so weird.

    I'm not saying that I believe Strieber but it is an interesting thought experiment.
     
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  16. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    I hate to agree with Whitley Strieber, but that seems plausible to me - I think we habitually limit our thinking on this subject to our own immediately foreseeable capabilities, but it seems very clear to me that many/most of these devices are far beyond that realm. Once your civilization masters spacetime engineering - of which warp field propulsion is but one very simple example - thinking about time linearly is reduced to a quaint and primitive concept.

    This idea reminds me of arguably the most brilliant Outer Limits episode, called "Demon with a Glass Hand," written by Harlan Ellison, 1964, with a magnificent sobering performance by Robert Culp. I'm kinda shocked that's never been made into a modern sci-fi film - it was way ahead of its time then, but modern audiences would love it and it has that sense of timeless mythical grandeur that makes for a truly classic sci-fi story.
     
  17. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    I just don't buy into 4D universes, let alone ones nested within a 6D architecture. To begin with, time isn't a spatial dimension, so treating it as such when converted to a variable is starting from a false premise. It's not 4D. It's d1,d2,d3,and t. Arbitrarily adding more dimensional or time variables to play with the math might be fun for mathematicians, but there's no reason to think it can work in the real world. In fact there's reasons why it can't. But that's a different discussion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  18. Thomas R Morrison

    Thomas R Morrison Paranormal Adept

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    I've presented a crash course on the logical basis for time as a dimension equivalent to space in the Time, Time Travel, and Closed Timelike Curves thread. Please have a look at that opening post. In my experience, the more thoroughly a person understands relativity, the more they appreciate its conceptual and mathematical elegance and economy, as well as the incredibly accurate predictions that it makes which in some cases have been verified to more than 20 decimal places.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  19. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Paranormal Adept

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    A NJ state trooper catches a flaming meteorite on his dashcam. Again, another meteorite, but no mile-wide flying saucer or even a point of light making a right angle turn (notice how his camera is pointed forward yet you can still see the entire sky. So the notion of "nobody's cameras are pointed up." is bogus.

     
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