Sept. 21st - Lisa Lindley

[Gareth]

So I think the first thing to say is that I was listening the whole time waiting for the smoking gun, but I didnt hear it. That shocking piece of testimony that really cements her story in reality, and although I thought for a second that the "I know you can see me S.O.B" encounter was it, I quickly changed my mind.

Like Gene and Dave said it really concerns me that She hasnt had her daughter checked out. Hearing voices is most commonly associated with schizophrenia, and Im truly shocked that it isnt something that - as parents - they wouldnt want to rule out from the get-go just to be sure. Even if it wasnt that a psych could at least determine if She was starved for attention of having problems at school and needing to impress her friends.

One thing I was hoping that Gene or Dave would ask is "aside from the daughter hearing voices what else happens in an 'attack'?"

I think thats the key. Lisa said that the attacks are ongoing but as far as I could tell the only thing that defines an attacks is (a)the daughter hears voices. Thats it. Am I missing something?

Basically if there was no voices with the daughter there would be nothing going on?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

There were other experiences involving the family, but they could be dream-related. The main focus was, as you gathered on the daughter.

We did ask that question.

 

[Kieran]

The show was interesting however i am very sceptical off her story. I am open minded on many things and i always look at the subject rationally.However it really worry's me that when lisa saw a entity standing over her daughters bed as she looked in to see if she was ok. That she just left her there until the morning.

That kind of brings red flags up in my book.Where is the parental care in this women.What kind of father or mother would leave there daughter within the room if they believed such a entity was within that room even if it did disappear.

Lisa seems kind of confused about her faith. Even do on her website she seem's to be deeply involved in the bible stuff (i believe the BIBLE IS A LOT OF OLD CRAP MYSELF) useing passage lines from the bible also on her website.

Demonic u cant really say that they are demonic.Useing stuff from the bible to get some understanding of what goes on worry's me also.it is a unknown entity full stop.

She had wrote four books i believe. This women is too involved within that subject. She is useing her so called problems for profit. That can be warning card.

I worry about her Daughter and her other children in this type of scenario. Could lisa be influenceing her daughter due to nature of her own personality. Could the daughter be haveing bonding issues with her mother and her father.Also the daughter could be makeing up stories that she can understand for example the army guy. She is more likely to have reference to a army guy from our century than a army guy from two hundred years ago.

However this girl needs help and she should be checked by a medical person of expertise.

I would love to see her so called Orbs. I dont believe she had them on her website.

 

[Gareth]

There were other experiences involving the family, but they could be dream-related. The main focus was, as you gathered on the daughter.

We did ask that question.

Yeah I know you brought it up. I guess I was just hoping you would put her on the spot and ask for specifics of an average attack. I got the impression she wasnt always asleep and that if all she could say was her daughter heard voices then it would be obviously a little silly.

 

[macavity]

David, Gene - well done for talking such good sense to this woman in the final half hour, for her daughter's sake I hope she takes it on board.

I doubt it though - seems she'd much rather fight the good fight her own way

 

[skunkape]

When you start putting experiences with these "entities" through a religious filter, Christianity specifically, things can get really miserable. I've made that mistake myself and I'm not even particularly religious. There's nothing worse than thinking the Devil is after you. How can one know that the "God" they turn to to save them from these "Demons" isn't working for the same side, with the goal of duping a stupid human into "opening their heart to Jesus?" so that some transdimensional mantid from Saturn can hijack their nervous system. Just give J.R. "Bob" Dobbs your thirty-bucks and forget about it.

 

[Graphimancer]

I thought this was a terrific show, not so much for the guest, but for the hosts. Maybe it was because Gene and David went into this interview without having read the book, they were both mentally nimble. I though David's questions were spot on, as were his observations and advice to get a psychological profile done of the daughter.

Lisa Lindley seemed like a very authentic person, describing things as she percieved them. I will say though, that her being smack in the middle of this unusual family dynamic makes her the last person to have a good perspective of what's going on. It seems the daughter is either the source of poultergeist activity, or a fantasy that has been reinforced by the rest of the family the whole of her young life.

On the other hand, I've heard some very similar stories to this, the hooded interlopers, so called demons; coming in seven; shadow people, dark men, etc. It leads me to wonder if either we are at the edge of a very nasty diminsion that bleeds into ours, or that this archetypical images are just a staple of the human subconscious and that accounts for the similarities are due to that.

My uncle is a dr. in the history dept. of an east coast college, and his career has been working with Indians and Indian tribes and land rights. He encountered many magical belief systems among the elders he interviewed and befriended, and he came to the conclusion that American shamanism and belief in magical beings all derived from archetypes common to the human collective memory, as if we genetically inherit certain fears and archetypes. He explained this to me twenty years ago, and I don't know if he still carries this opinion or not, or ever published it, but the Lisa Lindley interview made me remember what my uncle told me.

I also wondered what movies Lisa had seen, because this type of entity attack has been covered in lots of movies, sometimes very graphically.

If you take away the religious lens that Lisa processes this through, there are elements of all this that very much remind me of Jeff Ritzman's or even Dorothy Izzat's experiences.

 

[Rocketsauce]

Man these types of episodes always scare the crap out of me yet I can't stop listening.

Daughter definitely needs to be tested for schizophrenia. Lisa certainly seems to believe this, so she seems authentic aka she's not making this stuff up on purpose. I don't have much to say regarding the biblical lens she is interpreting these experiences through other than I just don't know.

If it was me having these experiences and they were 100% legit, I would do some research trying to find a psychic/medium who can go into a trance state and communicate with these things. But I bet that's like finding a needle in a haystack, particularly when you have no frame of reference for who could help versus who is a fraud.

The hood figure thing seems to be a theme we've heard before in the UFO world. Could be hoods are just the latest fashion in the interdimentional world

 

[mikec]

Holy SH*T! This is creepy stuff!

The story of the daughter is quite upsetting. When your guest (Lisa) told that her daughter said she was in gym class and saw the lights turn red, and that her friends saw it too - And then - She tells of seeing ALL the evil entities sitting in the bleachers, telepathically communicating "You can't get away from us!"

If this is true, that the daughter said this, then she is dealing with something extremely frightening. Wether it's a ghosts or mental illness - IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, it is still frightening, and both are serious.

I was left feeling that this young woman must be extremely burdened, if not outright suffering. I was pretty shocked. Sadly - this young woman has the potential for deep psychological trauma, and a life of issues associated wit this weirdness.

If you (anyone out there) goes back to listen to the Brad Steiger episode (I can't remember which one, ore the date, I'll check soon) he talks about these events from his perspective.

He - in no uncertain terms - says that these events are extremely serious.

David and Gene, I encourage you to contact Brad and Sheri Steiger, and get them to weigh in. From listening to Brad, he seems enormously sensitive, and deeply caring - AND - He is an excellent resource for these paranormal problems.

Get these two together!

Or - Get them together on a recorded show. I kept on thinking that if Brad was a co-host during this show that the level of interview (and insights) would have been elevated greatly.

Gene & Dave, I was impressed at your genuine concern. As well as your encouragement to actually DO something to try and help. I grew up in the mid west (like Lisa) and this is a place of collective denial.

Once again - Brad Steiger is needed in this very scary situation.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll consider contacting Brad about this.

In addition, bear in mind that the reports of paranormal incidents occurring at school were provided on the basis of what the daughter said. Lisa never actually asked anyone at the school, students or teachers, if something strange actually occurred. Or at least that's what she said in the interview.

 

[mikec]

I found the Brad Steiger interview where he talks ominously about poltergeists and teenage girls

The PARACAST / Feb 4th 2007
at the 1 hour, 13 minute, 30 second point (1 : 13 : 35)

(highly recommended)

 

[Rocketsauce]

Man we need an episode dedicated to pink unicorn sightings or friendly little hobbits smothering people in love and honey to balance this one out!

Interesting that dude with the Alien interview paper a few shows back was related to Scientology. Without reading the long post about that interview, I do remember thinking about Scientology when I heard him talking about what the interview papers said. Rolling Stone once had a long article on Scientology and in it's deeper depths it believes something along the lines that humans are slaves tied to earth which is something I recall that dude saying as well.

L Ron Hubbard should have been a marketing executive, actually I guess he kind of was

 

[Graphimancer]

I like the idea of Brad Stieger being in a conversation with Lisa Lindley, because Stieger has always impressed me with his vast knowledge and seemingly level headedness.

For whatever reason, I could tell that Lisa wasn't buying David's explanations of the orbs, irregardless of Biedny's credentials. She seems like she is trying to educate herself on these topics, but there are gaps there still.

(Note: I don't blame her for not changing her tune in the face of David's orb observations. Whenever you encounter an expert on a subject, it is better to 'take the subject under advisement' until you do your own research, and not just flip around based upon whatever an authorative person tells you. I actually think she showed some 'spine' in her reluctance, not ignorance, per se'. If she got all fundamentalist, that would be another issue altogether.)

It does seem like she's mixed some new age angelogy into her traditional religious beliefs. This always drives me nuts, because these harmless helper spirit angels seem to have nothing to do with Judeo-Christian theology. David makes that point on the show again, and I whole-heartedly agree. It would be nice to believe that some of these powerful entities from beyond the veil are on our side, but they don't work for us, and I don't think they are terribly concerned with collatoral damage. They are messengers and warriors.

(I don't want to paint all of them with the same brush, because some might be merciful or sympathetic, but I doubt that's the rule.)

 

[mike]

i must admit when i logged in yesterday the site gave me a news page with her weblink, and after having a quick squizz i decided to give this one a miss.
for me when the personal filters are of the "god" variety complete with demons and angels, the data if any has been ruined.
however after reading the comments i may yet tune in just to see how the hosts responded to her.
im sorry but for me these sorts of people have no more to offer me than the local tales of the rainbow serpent or maui and his very big fish.

i grew up in a "god" culture and was exposed to seven day adventism mormanism anglicanism and a few others, and i have relatives who are god botherers of the worst kind. and everytime they give me a book and say read this then youll know.... and i do read them.... and the sad truth is some of these ppl are just plain insane. one authors descriptions of hell would "if i ruled the world" be reason enough to track him down and lock him up. how the sick and twisted stuff made it past the censors let alone the publishers is beyond me.
another woman under attack by "demons" would see a ring of angels with flaming swords standing shoulder to shoulder round her house at night.....

once i hear stuff like that i cant think for the racket of the BS detectors klaxons wailing

 

[Gareth]

Something else I was hoping Lisa would be clear on is the episode where her daughter apparently got thrown across the room.

Did she see this?
Did anyone see this?
Did the daughter actually 'feel' something touch her or was it just like an invisible energy hit her?

For something like that to happen is just super super intense. If it was me that got thrown by an invisible force I can absolutely guarantee that I would be freaked out beyond the point of return. I dont know what I would do but I would have to take some sort of drastic action right there and then.

Im curious how this played out in their house. How did the daughter react?

 

[crabtown]

I don't know what the explanation is, but part of it has to be connected with this woman's voice. Jesus Hanggliding Christ, if that voice isn't enough to piss off domestic demons, nothing is. They were probably just hanging around minding their own business until Ms. Lindley's everyday conversation made them snap. I'd be evil too...

 

[CapnG]

A good show to be sure, intersting guest but like the others here I was waiting for the other shoe to drop... and it did the second she said her daughter was fourteen.

Fourteen. Female. Poltergheist. That's basically what I got from it. I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not girls in puberty create these things themselves or if they simply become more sensitive but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if all this goes away by the time she's 18.

A few points I want to comment on. First, when David was talking to her about lens flare artifacts. It was pretty clear to me by the THIRD time David mentioned it that she had no freakin' clue what "lens flare artifact" meant. I submit that David was suffering from "expert-itus", a condition that we all suffer from occaisionally. You know, when you're talking to someone about something related to your specific field of work and it's all very old hat to you but they are utterly clueless and their eyes start to glaze over? I think that's what was happening there only without the eye-glazing visual cue David may not have picked up on it. Something to watch out for in future interviews would be to pause and ask "Do you know what I mean when I say that?" in regards to photographic or other technical aspects of paranormal research (EF meters, etc).

On the subject of biblical angels David, you're impression is wrong. Now, I could make this into a theological rant about how the whole notion of angels is absurd and "fallen" angels doubly so but for now I'll reserve my comments strictly to the biblical text. Angels operate under a sort of caste system according to the scriptures. Some are warriors yes but most are simply messengers and intermediaries. God's gophers as it were. They show up, deliver a message and take off, akin to Hermes in greek mythology. Violent action by angels in is in fact quite rare but always spectacular in effect.

Lastly regarding mental health care, I don't mean to disparage the proffesion as a whole but let's face it, if it were in fact true that Lisa's family was being harrassed by some malignant entity/entities through supernatural means, no psychiatrist worth his diploma would do anything BUT dismiss it and prescribe counselling and/or drugs. And what's more, these are still doctors and as such pressured by the drug companies to prescribe their pills through compensation packages (a kind way of saying "bribes"). That said, I think she should take her daughter to see a proffesional anyway because all of this seems to be focussed on her and is merely effecting the family tangentally.

 

[dragon376]

I really wish she would've done a psychological analysis of her daughter, just to remove any doubt that she might have some mental illness. Schizophrenia, for example, can starts suddenly in children, triggered by say, moving into a creepy house...
Assuming that this really is paranormal, it really annoys me when people don't even want to consider any other explanation that the one they believe in. This could be any number of phenomena... But no, those are Demons...

Good thing you guys still ask the tough questions... that's why I listen to this show.

 

[Graphimancer]

Lastly regarding mental health care, I don't mean to disparage the proffesion as a whole but let's face it, if it were in fact true that Lisa's family was being harrassed by some malignant entity/entities through supernatural means, no psychiatrist worth his diploma would do anything BUT dismiss it and prescribe counselling and/or drugs. And what's more, these are still doctors and as such pressured by the drug companies to prescribe their pills through compensation packages (a kind way of saying "bribes"). That said, I think she should take her daughter to see a proffesional anyway because all of this seems to be focussed on her and is merely effecting the family tangentally.

A competent mental health care pro would see this as a psychological problem, not a paranormal problem. Still, I think this would be a good benchmark to get some sort of metric of the girl's state of mind.

On the subject of biblical angels David, you're impression is wrong. Now, I could make this into a theological rant about how the whole notion of angels is absurd and "fallen" angels doubly so but for now I'll reserve my comments strictly to the biblical text. Angels operate under a sort of caste system according to the scriptures. Some are warriors yes but most are simply messengers and intermediaries. God's gophers as it were. They show up, deliver a message and take off, akin to Hermes in greek mythology. Violent action by angels in is in fact quite rare but always spectacular in effect.

Your points are valid, the angels are broken into castes with different purposes, according to the lore. They are primarily messengers, but their secondary soldier role is notable. When encountered, they are often testing someone, like Jacob and all that wrestling stuff; or killing all the first-born of Egypt; or guarding the gates of Eden, or what have you.

If you are going to consider all this (it is kind of interesting), the angels that fell to earth were called the Grigori, and they took human wives and spawned the Nephilim. Nephilim are variously credited as heroes, or giants, or monsters.

There is lots of interesting literature out there on this. For example, in the Book of Adam (I can't remember if it's book one or two), an angel (Uriel? memory fails) gives Adam the books of magic knowledge, which stays in human possession down to Solomon. Fascinating stuff.

I have no idea what classification, if any or all, these extra diminsional entities subscribe to. I don't know if any would identify themselves as angels, demons, djinni, kami, aliens, gods, etc. Maybe it depends on the lens we percieve them through; maybe, I don't know.

How you make sense of all these old biblical and/or gnostic and/or Islamic stories is pretty subjective at this point. Is all that metaphor for a bigger reality, or very specific. I guess that's up to each of us.

Note: I get irritated when people express a belief that they can turn into angels when they die. That is not how it works: angels and mortals are two different things, and not different stages of the same creature. Perhaps, according to some lore, Ezechial became the angel Metatron, or God's scribe. If so, then this is certainly the exception that proves the rule.

Note no. 2: I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to push religion on them--I present all this as lore/religious writings, not some mystic truth.

 

[CapnG]

Your points are valid, the angels are broken into castes with different purposes, according to the lore. They are primarily messengers, but their secondary soldier role is notable. When encountered, they are often testing someone, like Jacob and all that wrestling stuff; or killing all the first-born of Egypt; or guarding the gates of Eden, or what have you.

That's still by caste though, cherubim and seraphim and all that. Plus the angel of Death seems to be a unique entity (another archangel, maybe... or an aspect of one, possibly Michael?). By and large they're God's UPS: the annunciation, advising Lot to leave Sodom, dictating the Koran, etc, etc. Any further insight requires delving into the apochrypha, in which case we have to whip out the book of Enoch and then, well... things get complex.