Ray Stanford: What to look for in a UFO clip...

[mike]

All hypothesis are on the table, im just not so sure we can infer from the reported size that

"Whoever is mounting this significant effort has a definite goal in mind other than the mere operation of these devices." Meaning the machines are just the means to some end. To me, large and numerous vehicles says, "They come here to get something physical

There are a number of explanations for the size that could have nothing to do whatsoever with Us.
Massive biospheres for cosmic gypsy's is just one alternative.
The larger ships may contain the "warp drive", which may interfere with or be interfered with by the gravity well of objects like planets, Thus needing sub light ferrys for the ground work.
Indeed drives that use massive gravity well projectors to warp space, would also perhaps produce compressed time as a byproduct.
Once a ship that size gets caught in the gravity well of a planet, it would take energy to free it, thus it makes sense to weigh anchor offshore and let the smaller craft play the role in planetary exploration.
Im a huge fan of the Battletech franchise and in the novels you have jumpships and dropships, the jumpships carry the Drive system that allows them to jump from system to system, while carrying a complement of drop ships which can only ferry between the planet and jumpship.
The setup Mr Stanford describes may simply be a reflection of the practicalitys of long distance space flight, and bear no relation to us or their agenda here

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

...The large cylinders are interplanetary transports and possibly processing facilities or refineries of some kind. The smaller vehicles brought here in them are performing the task at hand. Popular UFO mythology suggests that they are here primarily to interact with human beings but may also include other animals and plant life on the planet. This appears to have been going on for some time, so it could to be either a maintenance activity or a very long term project. Since there are no reports of large mineral deposits being mined by mysterious unknown parties and people do not appear to be disappearing in large numbers the idea that they are here to get something and take it back seems less likely. This makes a maintenance activity or long term engineering project more likely. As it seems these things operate on the fringe of our perception, the actual locus of their actions could be as well.

I've been a staunch, vocal ETH naysayer for years, but since I met Ray nine years ago, I've been slightly drawn back from meta, ultra, psycho/spiritual, occult theories back toward the ever-popular ETH (let me be clear, "slightly" OK? ) Yikes! TO brings up very valid questions. Why would a space-faring civilization send 14 mile long cigars filled w/ 14k foot black-triangles and hundreds of small scout ships to Earth unless they were involved in some kind of large-scale operation? There is no apparent evidence of any unexplained activity of this scale that could be construed to justify their presence. So, if Ray's hypothesis is correct, what's the alien agenda and the rationale behind the MO? Very astute questions and a significant stumbling block to any ETH theory. I know, they are losing their emotional bodies and feed off our fear, or they need our genetic material to hybridize themselves, blaa-blah-blahh, but if Ray is correct, I would think that the presence of gigantic 14 mile cigars in the atmosphere would have to have a rationale and purpose on the grandest of scales, etc...[/quote]

And now, back to reality where ...
There are no UFOs in the sky here, only dragons. I'm taking a short cut through a frozen forest over to a mountain pass, hoping against hope not to run into another damn troll or Sabre Cat. One of those freaking monster cats killed my horse and I torched my traveling companion fighting a Troll/Yeti thing just hours ago. Note to self, "Don't step in front of a panicking novice spell caster." Now I need to get somewhere and unload some of this loot I'm dragging through this f'ing blizzard before another dragon shows up. I should have never wasted all that gold on that useless horse. Never again. I'm buying something I can kill a troll with. Something like a super-duper flame spell of some kind or maybe a strong poison. Yeah, that might work. Oh crap ... what is that up ahead? Save, save, save!

Dude, you missed your calling: you should be a sci-fantasy novelist! Good stuff!

 

[GeoShift]

Perhaps the 14 Mile long ships are time cloaking machines and well wake up some day, all our resources gone, with out a clue to we're they went

http://mobile.syracuse.com/advsyra/pm_103290/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=KjsJsATv

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Dude, you missed your calling: you should be a sci-fantasy novelist! Good stuff!

Something similar actually happened to me - we're both playing Skyrim.

 

[Ezechiel]

I've been a staunch, vocal ETH naysayer for years, but since I met Ray nine years ago, I've been slightly drawn back from meta, ultra, psycho/spiritual, occult theories back toward the ever-popular ETH (let me be clear, "slightly" OK? ) Yikes! TO brings up very valid questions. Why would a space-faring civilization send 14 mile long cigars filled w/ 14k foot black-triangles and hundreds of small scout ships to Earth unless they were involved in some kind of large-scale operation? There is no apparent evidence of any unexplained activity of this scale that could be construed to justify their presence. So, if Ray's hypothesis is correct, what's the alien agenda and the rationale behind the MO? Very astute questions and a significant stumbling block to any ETH theory. I know, they are losing their emotional bodies and feed off our fear, or they need our genetic material to hybridize themselves, blaa-blah-blahh, but if Ray is correct, I would think that the presence of gigantic 14 mile cigars in the atmosphere would have to have a rationale and purpose on the grandest of scales, etc..

This would fit nicely in a 'Sandbox' hypothesis.

Perhaps a civilization a few billions older than us has recognized the fragility of life and the terminality of this universe and has decided to propagate it as fast as it could.

If you knew for sure that the entire universe would possibly disintegrate 18 billion years from now (big crunch or big freeze).... you'd need to find a solution to live beyond the timeline wouldn't you ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe

Perhaps getting the maximum forms of life working on building a hopeful bridge to another compatible universe (providing the multiverse theory stands) would make sense... or would it ?

The ultimate question would be: what's the point of evolution or life itself if the entire process leads back to nothingness ?

These cylinders are preserving lifeforms that have been evolving to produce balanced ecosystems over billions of years and re-creating that formula in other compatible earth-like sandboxes all over the universe would be a noble enterprise

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

This would fit nicely in a 'Sandbox' hypothesis. If you knew for sure that the entire universe would possibly disintegrate 18 billion years from now (big crunch or big freeze).... you'd need to find a solution to live beyond the timeline wouldn't you ? These cylinders are preserving lifeforms that have been evolving to produce balanced ecosystems over billions of years and re-creating that formula in other compatible earth-like sandboxes all over the universe would be a noble enterprise

Cool idea! Kinda like giant interdimensional/time-based Noah's Arks, or something. Ray has mentioned the possibility that the largest of the carrier vehicles might not actually be ships but doorways for interstellar travel--like a dialable wormhole, or something...

 

[Ezechiel]

Cool idea! Kinda like giant interdimensional/time-based Noah's Arks, or something. Ray has mentioned the possibility that the largest of the carrier vehicles might not actually be ships but doorways for interstellar travel--like a dialable wormhole, or something...

Here's another twist...

Let's suppose that this universe is quasi-unique... meaning that it takes an infinite number of parallel non-compatible universes to produce one like ours with perfect attributes enabling life.

In that scenario the only solution is time travel... Theoretically if you're able slide back from a point 30 billion years in the universes life-cycle (where life forms are either almost ready to be shredded to pieces or frozen lol) back to a point only 10 billion years old, you could in effect continue the evolution process for another 20 billion years (but in a parallel universe...).

And do that an infinite number of times

Finding a life-form that could not have time to evolve within the normal life-cycle of this universe would be the ultimate proof.

 

[mike]

If one could step above or outside linear time, to the dimension above/outside it, one could ride out the big bang/big crunch cycle in that place.
alternatively if one can time travel like Dr Who's Tardis, then the big bang / gnab gib scenario becomes moot. You can breakfast watching the big bang, and have dinner at the resturant at the end of the universe, these events simply become temporal co-ordinates in much the same way as we have geographical co-ordinates now, simply choose not to be at that "place" in space and time.
In much the same way as we get close to and observe active volcano's without actually jumping into the caldera itself.
From within the linear time universe the distance between the big bang/big crunch appears vast, but ultimately finite, but infinity can reside inside a finite feature.
Its all a matter of how you look at it. for example take the number one, to most this is a finite feature. but...... take one, divide by 50 percent, discard one half keep the other. Divide that by 50 percent, discard half and keep the other, take that and divide by 50 percent....... you can do this forever, as long as half is left, it can be divided in half.
Infinity within a finite feature

more examples here

http://paulbourke.net/fractals/gasket/

If you can step out of linear time and re enter it at the temporal co-ordinate of your choice, then what looks like a finite closed loop big bang / gnab gib can in fact be an infinite system rather than a finite one

 

[Goggs Mackay]

@christophero'brien - having degrees in Applied Physics and Medical Physics I believe I have a good idea of how science is carried out. I would not presume to put myself in the same bracket as anywhere near our best or most productive scientists but I know I know enough to put me as more informed of the process of science than say, the average man on the street.
All that is well and good for accepted science but as we all know, pretty much the whole mainstream science scene is affected with some taboo-like reluctance to even talk about the subject of UFO's.
Most of us know also that part of the reason for that is fear of losing funding but it goes much further than that. I completely understand scientists deciding there is no money, glory or crediblity in publicly announcing interest in UFO's, certainly not after so many governments have very ably made such interest seem like a belief akin to fairies at the bottom of the garden.
But what is unforgiveable for anyone, especially a scientist, is a refusal to even privately look at the available data before making a pronouncement on the validity of the topic.
I am not the first to say that when it comes to ufology, most people and most scientists seem to think that 'UFO's cannot be real, therefore any study of them is ridiculous'. The mistake is to assume in the first place that either UFO's cannot exist or that they cannot have visited us here.
Someone earlier noted that there is not really anywhere to place UFO data so that it can be peer-reviewed, therefore I believe we must use non-standard practice in trying to move the field forward. If science is not going to even let ufology into the 'club' of accepted topics of inquiry then it falls to us to create our own 'club' or at least our 'own' ways of getting data out so that it can be peer-reviewed at least by fellow ufologists. Maybe by doing that and ufologists freely sharing all data, surely many open minds working on the problem then would have some chance of arriving at some more understanding with facts to back it up. Then, we may have a chance of getting some scientists to just listen.
My point really is that I think that Ray Stanford or anyone else should not sequester data because 'that is the way science is done'. It may be the way science is done but because science does not recognise ufology as serious then we cannot abide by the rules of mainstream science, even if that irks the scientist in the ufologist if you get my meaning.
We are forced to do things differently and generating income from books, film etc aside, we need to be as open with eachother with ALL DATA because let's face it, no-one else is giving us a hand so we can only help ourselves. We cannot help ourselves if we hoard data. No one person comes up with the answer to anything so SHARE, SHARE, SHARE must be the order of the day surely?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

@mike - Jeez! You read that it seemed before i posted it! thanks for the like. What do you think?

 

[mike]

I agree, we should share all and any data we can.
There is an old adage that states "power shared is power lost", but when it comes to data i dont think it applies. Data shared can only produce synergistic results imo

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me it sounds as though Stanford is exaggerating what he has and that's why he's being so difficult about showing people. You ask him about one thing and he shows you something else.
He supposedly has clear, day time pictures of a giant UFO where you can see inside. It's a picture. All he has to do is show it and he doesn't want to. That's fine, but don't hide behind excuses about "that's not how science is done," because that's just a cop-out.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

@angelo - sounds a bit like john smith and the gold plates for the mormons. 'yes of course i have all the answers and proof right here now but, em, ah, i just can't show you right now.'
utter B.S
i confess to not really knowing anything about Stanford but i think i shall go and check him out.
snake oil anyone?
gordon

 

[Angel of Ioren]

He's been on the show before, and the last time he was on he created quite the discussion on the forum.

Here's a link to one of the previous discussions: https://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/ray-stanford-august-29th.7219/

And here's another: https://www.theparacast.com/forum/t...-sands-july-19-1978-scientific-evidence.7183/

As you can see, Stanford has a habit of promising all this evidence and providing nothing. He's even been offered tons of help to digitize everything he has, but still nothing. It isn't surprising.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

He's been on the show before, and the last time he was on he created quite the discussion on the forum.

i am one of those listeners who has been getting the show for about 4 years and over the course of the last year i have been downloading back-catalogue shows to catch up. i think i have heard a show with ray but he can't have made too much of an impact because i can't recall much about the show!
some other guests though, i really liked on the show and can conjure up what they've said in my head like a good song.
but after reading these posts i feel obliged to give mr stanford another whirl, if only to get my facts straight before deciding what i think of him. i had no idea he claimed ownership of excellent photos etc but refuses to show them! what utter shite!
gordon