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Ray Stanford has a photo of the Socorro craft & Martin Willis has seen it and is impressed but...

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Ray is not much into talking about his past regarding channeling and such although he has with us. He admits to making a mistake with those things in the past and wants to focus on his UFO encounters and discoveries he has made Dino hunting. He's not afraid to talk about anything, he just feels time is better spent with more important subjects. His main focus is finding reputable scientist that are willing to see what he has and move forward in a scientific methodology. Ufology needs to be examined scientifically if it is to remain relevant. Too often cases or stories with no evidence are blown way out of proportion and at the end of the day there is no progress and we are left with just a story. Ray is not charging a dime for any of this and just wants to find the right people to analyze his evidence.
 
Welcome to the fourms sir. In an age where CGi is Passed off as UFOs is good to see someone who is trying to make sense of it. In your opinion what did ronnie Zamora see?
The Zamora sighting remains one of my top choices for true cases.

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The object that Lonnie saw, in my opinion, was an unknown flying egg shaped object that was not man made. Anything beyond that would be speculation. The Army could not find any black or top secret project to account for it. The moon landers at that time had no internal propulsion and was being 'dropped'
from a cable to test it's ability to land. There was no hoax by students but that is the goofiest theory I have seen and just shows you how much people will reach to explain what they dare not believe.
 
Constance said:
I recommend reading this book . . .


Book Description:

"Two startling films and the facts behind them reveal, once and for all, the existence of an incredible technology behind the UFO phenomenon.

As no other book has ever done, X-Descending documents how private study of an unpublished daylight, multi-witness UFO movie, filmed by veteran UFO researcher Ray Stanford, resulted in a major aerospace propulsion breakthrough. Until now, no book could show that aerospace propulsion science has directly benefited from studying a UFO movie. Author Christian Lambright not only does that, he provides an in-depth documentation of how it has occurred.

Lambright doesn't stop there. He goes on to open up the mysterious Paul Bennewitz case with startlingly detailed, hitherto unpublished color film-frame images clearly revealing that whatever objects Bennewitz saw and filmed within the Manzano Weapon Storage Area at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M., they are exotic, technological, and nothing with which, even today, we are familiar.

Included in the account of the early experiences of Paul Bennewitz is a serious examination of the counterintelligence effort to suppress the evidence of what he had seen and filmed. This book names names."
Click to expand...
I read Lambright's X-Descending back in May, along with Greg Bishop's Project Beta. I enjoyed both reads. That said, I was fairly underwhelmed by the Stanford content in Lambright's book. Very minimal discussion and certainly not an impressive sample of photos. I left in no demonstrably different place, with regards to the credibility of Stanford and his "materials," than before finishing the book. However, the Bennewitz content was very compelling and informative. Great stuff.
 
I agree the hoax story is crazy. Physical evidence shows something landed.were any footprints found? My thoughts are that it was one of 2 things.
1. A super top secret project or.
2. An alien craft.
Pure speculation on my part.


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DissectionStalker said:
If possible, Ray should do a lot of audio recordings about his life's story with UFO's AND other adventures too w/paranormal. In fact, that would even be better than a book, because Ray has so many details and interesting stories he can recall and share in his own words. That unique personal UFO history should be preserved in Ray's own words too, because all that personality and experience will never transmit well or enough in a book.
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I have several hundred hours of recordings of Ray that I transcribed for the book. Ray sometimes gets ahead of himself, and the story comes out piecemeal. I spent two years transcribing the tapes and placing the information in a logical order without altering or changing a word.
 
A quick note about Chris Lambright's book that includes the Mirabeux/Stanford claim. When Ray met Leke in TX, he even didn't own a computer. He showed him the raw film and analog stills derived from the analog film. Ray didn't own a computer until several years later after he moved to MD. So any suggestions or innuendo that he doctored up the images that he showed him is unfounded and untrue.
 
In support of Chris' post:
There is nothing of Ray's that I have ever seen that is 'doctored'.
It is all raw data. To speculate about Ray and his information without knowing Ray or seeing his work is fruitless.
When it comes out questions can be answered. Needless to say I am aware of several well known individuals who can confirm what Tony and I have seen. Patience will be rewarded.
 
Christopher O'Brien said:
A quick note about Chris Lambright's book that includes the Mirabeux/Stanford claim. When Ray met Leke in TX, he even didn't own a computer. He showed him the raw film and analog stills derived from the analog film. Ray didn't own a computer until several years later after he moved to MD. So any suggestions or innuendo that he doctored up the images that he showed him is unfounded and untrue.
Click to expand...
According to what I heard Lambright say "on air" in his own words it is A FACT that Stanford only emailed or showed him select digital frames of the S-8 film footage. He was only allowed to do ARTWORK of those images for his book [or the images were so poor to show much detail], and I got the distinct impression that Lambright himself felt limited by such restrictions of what he was allowed to see!

I've never implied anything about the "scientist" you mention above that wants to use essentially laser weapons to beam at aircraft to power flight around the world or launch objects into space using lasers that target the aircraft or space launch from ground based [and space based] lasers. I have little respect for such ideas, because these are unbelievably ridiculous and outlandish beyond just basic research, and these ideas easily serve and promote a dual purpose for laser weapons development under "the sly" deception of aircraft or space flight. His ideas will go nowhere beyond what his "groupie students" are doing in Brazil, and he is retired from his research work. The USA research program DIED with his retirement too!!! Thank All the Gods and pray for Humanity's sake his ideas are going nowhere!!!

AND, please [to anyone thinking this] cut the crap this was some damn innovative idea or breakthrough [the beam ahead] that Ray discovered with this UFO film footage. That's right, I thoroughly documented such ideas were around at least in the 1960's if not before that too!!!
 
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Ben Moss said:
When it comes out questions can be answered. Needless to say I am aware of several well known individuals who can confirm what Tony and I have seen.
Click to expand...
1) Did you see the "close-up" of the ET Alien "flying" his UFO craft that Ray has said can be easily seen?

2) Did you see the gigantic ET Motherships and smaller UFO craft that "flew-out" from the Mothership? These films were shot in either S-8mm or 8mm or 16mm depending on when Ray owned and used those formats. These UFO objects were at estimated distances of 100,000 feet in altitude, and some were as far away as 50-150 miles away according to Ray's own words.

Well, did ANY of you [including Chris O.] see these ET Alien close-ups and their Motherships and smaller UFO's that came out from [or reentered] the Mothership????

PLEASE answer one and two above. It's simple. Either yes or no.
 
For someone I do not know you demand a lot of information. Any reply to you will be skewed as your emotions flow thru your post. You cannot elect yourself as the special receiver of closely guarded information. I know you will take this reply and spin it to your liking. Feel free but know that when its time all will be told in a way that is peer reviewed. I am not nor ever will be commanded by the whims of a blog.
 
I reply out of a courtesy. I have no obligation and usually when attacked give at least as good as I get. When such discourse strays into opinion and self centered ego I cease to reply as it is as educational as talking to a tree. I will answer reasonable questions but will not betray the trust that friends such as Ray have bestowed upon me. The public will and does eventually have a need to know or at least an intelligent curiosity of wanting to know. The random individual who contributes nothing but struts and frets his time on the stage demanding answers will get none.
 
Ben Moss said:
I reply out of a courtesy. I have no obligation and usually when attacked give at least as good as I get. When such discourse strays into opinion and self centered ego I cease to reply as it is as educational as talking to a tree. I will answer reasonable questions but will not betray the trust that friends such as Ray have bestowed upon me. The public will and does eventually have a need to know or at least an intelligent curiosity of wanting to know. The random individual who contributes nothing but struts and frets his time on the stage demanding answers will get none.
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thank you sir for my part I truly apologize for my early post again. if and when it is released I look forward to a useful discourse. I hope that day come soon. we need the truth not some CGI UFOS posted on a youtube...
 
Points well taken, Ben. Fortunately, we DO NOT yet live fettered in a Youtube, 'net-based reality. Ray's work will (or will not be :eek:) released for public consumption when the time is right. There is nothing to gain by a public release before the scientific community has a chance to peer review Ray's AAO analytical work. I am eager to see his primary data/films finally digitized!:cool:
 
Ben Moss said:
For someone I do not know you demand a lot of information.
Click to expand...
Ridiculous!

I asked two yes or no questions, and that certainly was NOT a demand nor a request for a lot of information. You spent more time writing a false putdown than simply answering yes or no.

I think your ego seems out of skew [for mentioning my "strutting ego" to begin with] with the intent you use to dismiss a simple request. Your first post to this thread started out to dismiss replying to my post, though my post was never even addressed to you. How could it be, since you first posted after me to be dismissive of my opinions that were not worthy of your reply. I did not ask you for anything.

Sir, your opinions are no more or no less important about the Socorro incident, since neither you, Ray, or I witnessed the event. ANY number of Human causes could create that sighting, and to suggest otherwise is not anything more than your opinion and belief.

In no way can you prove that UFO was not human made!!! How religious is such a brash assertion? Such opinions are certainly flawed and filled with disinformation coming from someone so experienced as your MUFON title suggests. Is your ego under control with a humble respect for the truth? I sense no investigative neutrality or impartiality on your part about Socorro.
 
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