October 18, 2015 — Dr. David Jacobs

[Mulvaney]

You got it, Chris.
Have you purchased your THOUGHT SCREEN HELMET yet?

Velostat! It addresses the shortage of genuine tin foil. I wonder if it works to guard against other phenomenon uncovered by techniques similar to that used by Jacobs - if so I wonder why the aliens, satanists, and super soldier creators have not joined together to stop its use.

But it's always good to protect one's thoughts. As Dylan once sang, "If my thought dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine."

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

Why don't you burn an effigy of the man and be done with it.

This will probably be one of my last forays into Paracast Forum-land. Baptist are more open than this groups. I'm around real scientists who have less filters and judgements than this group has. Dr. Jacobs would have been respected or given a hearing before the prejudgements or prejudices set in. By the way, the world seldom has absolutes.

I keep circling the idea of Plato's Cave on one hand and Alan Watt's story of the painted ceiling of the sky that is eventually confused as the sky itself. Both were talking about meta-level over understandings over reality which doesn't always fit our notions or filters.

The problem with dismissing Jacobs out-of-hand is that if his finding are correct and real, this is a place for exploration. If he is wrong, it is time to find out but not based upon presumption. He is forthright in saying he doesn't know, however, he has been going at this alone on his own dime. He is doing more than searching the net. I'm sure it has hurt his career in academia. I don't think he has been thrilled with the reception from the UFO "community" again any more than Graham Hancock is about dealing with the fallout on his new book. It's thankless.

Yes, witch hunt is the right word, but it is more like the Catholic Church and Galileo.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

He only has no physical proof for his OUTLANDISH claims (which he holds up as indisputable truth).

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Just wondering: How many of you have actually read his book?

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

I'm happy to admit that I have never read his book. It's totally possible that what he's claiming is true, is. It just seems far fetched with lots of leaps of faith.
Nobody is burning another human being (or hubrid for that matter) at the stake.

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

kruggutter
This guy is trying to ruin it for everyone. I think most people here are just saying they don't think Jacobs is legit stuff. Not actually murdering the man by burning him alive

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

I read the first two, Secret Life and The Threat. I almost bought Walking Among Us yesterday but haven't put down the 11 dollars yet. I probably will give in and read it. The first two books were pretty horrifying. What is disturbing are his claims that the abductees independently report the same experiences; I'd like to listen to the actual audio recordings of his regressions, and I'd like to see a real psychotherapist (or someone who has studied the brain and hypnotic regression extensively) analyze the recordings and give us an impartial opinion of his techniques and maybe even comment on the veracity of his claims.

Here is the Amazon sales data after his appearance on Art Bell last night:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #13,406 in Books
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #15,507 Paid in Kindle Store

These radio appearances substantially improve his sales, not that this is bad. He should be paid for his books. He should earn money for the work if people want to read them. No qualms with that.

 

[kruggutter]

kruggutter
This guy is trying to ruin it for everyone. I think most people here are just saying they don't think Jacobs is legit stuff. Not actually murdering the man by burning him alive

I meant no offense Mr. Fibuli (OT: "The Pirate Planet" I love it too). But when it comes to forum discussions of Dr. David Jacobs it appears to
me that some people are more interested in going after his character on the unfounded accusations of Emma Woods, than seriously paying
attention to the work he has produced. When it comes to Dr. Jacobs, there appears to be a palpable lynch mob atmosphere at certain points in
these forums. Where some people appear to have little interest for anything other than smearing the man under the false guise of legitimate
skepticism. When I perceive such activity I comment on it. Today I just did so in a more sardonic fashion than usual.

Peace Mr. Fibuli

Sean F. Meers

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

I meant no offense Mr. Fibuli (OT: "The Pirate Planet" I love it too). But when it comes to forum discussions of Dr. David Jacobs it appears to
me that some people are more interested in going after his character on the unfounded accusations of Emma Woods, than seriously paying
attention to the work he has produced. When it comes to Dr. Jacobs, there appears to be a palpable lynch mob atmosphere at certain points in
these forums. Where some people appear to have little interest for anything other than smearing the man under the false guise of legitimate
skepticism. When I perceive such activity I comment on it. Today I just did so in a more sardonic fashion than usual.

Peace Mr. Fibuli

Sean F. Meers

I feel ya

 

[kruggutter]

I feel ya

I guess today I just couldn't help being a smart ass about it.

It's very difficult material to digest what Jacobs proposes. It sounds absolutely insane and there's no two ways about it.
The question is though, as the CincyKid mentioned earlier, if there is a possibility that what Jacobs is proposing has some
degree of truth to it then it may be in all our interests to at least hear him out, or better yet look into it ourselves to further
the research.

Peace,

Sean

 

[Creepy Green Light]

At this point in the game, just about anyone can recite an abduction experience. I probably could have done it since around 13 years old.

"I felt a sensation in my room as if someone was standing next to me. I opened my eyes but my body was paralyzed. I saw two figures about 3 ft tall with pear shaped heads and almond eyes. They somehow "floated me" out my bedroom window and into a craft. They put me on a table and started the "exam" - blah blah blah etc. etc."

Right? So maybe like 30 years ago when I'd hear abductee's tell similar stories I thought "wow, how could this be a coincidence?" But in 2015 I think "Big deal - my 9 year old has seen enough alien stuff on TV and in the movies that she could fabricate the exact same story."

So the fact that people share similar stories is garbage out the window to me. Show me something else that can't be refuted. Anything at this point. Please.

 

[Apocalypto]

Just wondering: How many of you have actually read his book?

Gene, I read his first book many years ago. It's science fiction. I find it kind of sad that people take what he says seriously.

kruggutter
This guy is trying to ruin it for everyone. I think most people here are just saying they don't think Jacobs is legit stuff. Not actually murdering the man by burning him alive

Talk about trying to put words in someone's mouth. I acknowledge that I've been one of the most vehement critics of Jacobs in this thread, but I never said anything remotely close to that. Please, both you and krugutter need to get down off your high horses and cut me some slack. If you don't agree with me, just say so. But I refuse to allow people to post comments that have absolutely no connection to anything I've said. If you were to actually read what has been written, Fibuli, you would see that it was krugutter who brought up the burning effigy comment, not me.

Every single criticism I've made about Jacobs is based on things he has said and done, in other words FACTS. Simple as that. The stuff he writes is science fiction, and anyone who can't understand that needs to check their critical thinking skills.

What I find particularly bizarre is how he managed to get a doctorate in the first place.

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

Gene, I read his first book many years ago. It's science fiction. I find it kind of sad that people take what he says seriously.


Talk about trying to put words in someone's mouth. I acknowledge that I've been one of the most vehement critics of Jacobs in this thread, but I never said anything remotely close to that. Please, both you and krugutter need to get down off your high horses and cut me some slack. If you don't agree with me, just say so. But I refuse to allow people to post comments that have absolutely no connection to anything I've said. If you were to actually read what has been written, Fibuli, you would see that it was krugutter who brought up the burning effigy comment, not me.

Every single criticism I've made about Jacobs is based on things he has said and done, in other words FACTS. Simple as that. The stuff he writes is science fiction, and anyone who can't understand that needs to check their critical thinking skills.

What I find particularly bizarre is how he managed to get a doctorate in the first place.

DUDE!! Kruggutter knows that I was calling him out for his burnt at the stake comment. I was calling him out for likening your critiques to burning Dr. Jacobs alive, not piling on you .sheesh

 

[Han]

My understanding is that his doctorate is in History, not psychology or hypnotherapy.
from wikipedia:
Jacobs obtained his Ph.D. from the University of Wisconsin–Madison in 1973, in the field of intellectual history

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

DUDE!! Kruggutter knows that I was calling him out for his burnt at the stake comment. I was calling him out for likening your critiques to burning Dr. Jacobs alive, not piling on you .sheesh

Lol 'if I actually decided to read what was said'..I like how spunky you are though!

 

[Apocalypto]

DUDE!! Kruggutter knows that I was calling him out for his burnt at the stake comment. I was calling him out for likening your critiques to burning Dr. Jacobs alive, not piling on you .sheesh

Oh okay thanks. With all the poo flinging that's been going on I'm getting lost.

 

[Mulvaney]

At this point in the game, just about anyone can recite an abduction experience. I probably could have done it since around 13 years old.

This was true even before abduction became such a well known phenomenon. As I mentioned early in this thread, Vallee cited a study in his 1979 book Messengers of Deception that involved screening people to ensure they had no previous interest or knowledge in the subject, yet seven out of eight described almost identical abduction experiences while under hypnosis.

(I have not seen that study, but assume Vallee accurately reports it.)

Elizabeth Loftus has conducted a number of studies demonstrating that it is possible to create false memories ranging from benign to more traumatic events. Early on, she warned that people could remember dangerously and compared memory regression that recounted abduction with other types of experiences. She would be an interesting guest on this show.

As to Jacobs, I have not read his book. If the local library picks it up, I might. But anecdotal evidence based on memory techniques is not a good way to build an encompassing theory, whether it involves aliens, satan, or any other sinister plot. So I have little interest in buying what he sells.

 

[Apocalypto]

My understanding is that his doctorate is in History, not psychology or hypnotherapy.
from wikipedia:
Jacobs obtained his Ph.D. from the University of Wisconsin–Madison in 1973, in the field of intellectual history

Sure, I knew that, but it still gives one pause. It's paradoxical that someone like him can hold a legit position at Temple University.

 

[kruggutter]

This was true even before abduction became such a well known phenomenon. As I mentioned early in this thread, Vallee cited a study in his 1979 book Messengers of Deception that involved screening people to ensure they had no previous interest or knowledge in the subject, yet seven out of eight described almost identical abduction experiences while under hypnosis.

(I have not seen that study, but assume Vallee accurately reports it.)

Elizabeth Loftus has conducted a number of studies demonstrating that it is possible to create false memories ranging from benign events to more traumatic events. Early on, she warned that people could remember dangerously and compared memory regression that recounted abduction with other types of experiences.

As to Jacobs, I have not read his book. If the local library picks it up, I might. But anecdotal evidence based on memory techniques is not a good way to build an encompassing theory, whether it be based on aliens, satan, or any other sinister plot. So I have little interest in buying what he sells.

The tricky thing about Loftus' experiments, demonstrating the creation and implantation of false memories, is that
they cannot implant the intense and unique affect that accompanies genuine traumatic memories. They can implant
the narrative of a traumatic memory, and in some instances, depending on the test subject's level of suggestibility,
make them believe it. But they cannot implant the specific, wholly unique and subjective emotions, that go along
with experiencing a real traumatic event firsthand.

Even if they were to try doing so, in essence trying to traumatise the test subject in such a way to fit the implanted
narrative (obviously highly unethical and illegal) it's still not the genuine, wholly personal affect that can only be
received by experiencing a real traumatic event firsthand. It might result in a simulation of sorts, but nothing
with the meaningfulness of the real thing. Were they to attempt to traumatise the subject for real, they would
have to do it for real for the affect to match.

Peace,

Sean F. Meers

P.S. John Mack touched on this matter in his rebuttal to NOVA.

"There is no evidence that Loftus or anyone else can induce the level
of emotion associated with these experiences, whether in hypnosis or by
direct suggestion. In your program both the hypnotic subject working with
Baker and the young woman given the suggested memory of being lost in a
shopping mall show a clear lack of emotional expression related to their
experiences. The experience does not seem to be of central importance to
them. Abduction experiences tend to have high impact on the person involved
(McLeod, 1995). Research tells us that memories of central importance are
more likely to be accurate than memories of peripheral importance
(Christianson, 1992)."


-- John Mack

February 22, 1996

 

[Gene Steinberg]

What I find particularly bizarre is how he managed to get a doctorate in the first place.

That's the sort of insult that has no place in this forum. Please stick to the issues.

 

[Apocalypto]

Were they to attempt to traumatise the subject for real, they would have to do it for real for the affect to match.

That's reaching.