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Micah Hanks, DMT and spirits


drew hempel

Skilled Investigator
O.K. so David says that obviously if a person takes a psychedelic and then claims to see an alien and claims that it is real -- obviously the fact they're on a drug then makes their "real" claim to be highly questionable. Now David I have done DMT -- but here's the deal -- I first studied what medical science says about psychedelics -- they over-ride the thalamus inhibition of the subconscious perceptions which is normally integrated with the cortex contextual analysis.

So when I did DMT David it was after I did alchemical qigong training with a Chinese healer -- a full lotus yoga master -- who spent 49 days in a cave in full lotus taking no food, no water and no sleep. So this Chinese healer, Chunyi Lin, works with the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota and he's healed people of late term cancer, M.S., and many other rare diseases, etc. His healing center is in Minnesota:


That's a good introduction. But there's also these video testimonies from many of the people healed: http://www.springforestqigong.com/testimonials.htm

O.K. the reason I mention that paranormal digression is that because of my qigong full lotus training I can flex my pineal gland -- I can already consciously activate my thalamus with a permanent magnetized bliss. I had already tested the full lotus third eye qigong against salvia -- a legal yet very powerful psychedelic. Amazingly I discovered that salvia activated the kundalini healing energy -- called "jing" in Taoist alchemy -- it's the electrochemical life force energy as bliss. But still the electromagnetic third eye over-rided the salvia so I had no hallucinations. The salvia tried to pull my spirit out of my body but the electromagnetic third eye was too strong. My spirit was only pulled halfway out of my body -- again I was in full lotus flexing my pineal gland against the salvia. Many people have had their spirit get pulled out of their body from salvia after only one smoke and never take salvia again.

So when I did DMT I took a very strong brew -- mimosa and as the MAOI I took the syrian rue. I fasted 24 hours before hand and I ground up the plants and brewed it down to concentration for several hours. When I ingested it I went into full lotus. At first I thought it wouldn't be any stronger than the salvia. Boy was I wrong.

Suddenly I heard gun shots and the kundalini bliss was like my tailbone getting ripped up backwards with orgasmic energy -- it was amazingly deep orgasmic bliss -- and my pineal gland cracked up and I saw bright light and then everything turned into a rainbow vortex.

I had no motor control but I stayed in full lotus - it was a holographic experience so that external reality was a projection of the internal chakra rainbow vortex. I could have left-brain thought but only as a brief wave and then the DMT would suck the thought back into the rainbow vortex and the answer would be given back to me. Again the answer was that all of reality was this rainbow holographic vortex and my perception of external reality was a projection of my internalized chakra energy. In yoga this is called the "rainbow body" as immortality of the universe.

Again I saw no hallucinations -- but the DMT lasted for 5 hours! I had visions but they were directly in response to my left-brain questions. I was able to over-ride the hallucinations which normally occur when the thalamus is taken over by the psychotropic plant. Yet the healing chakra energy was real. There is a method to the madness.

For my masters thesis in 2000 and subsequent research I discovered that the method of the madness is nonwestern music -- in China it was called the "infinite spiral of fifths." So when people talk about "frequency" as energy, in fact, the problem is that the West defines time as a spatial measurement. I even did original mathematical research on the origins of Western math from nonwestern music theory -- my research was called "very valuable" by math professor Joe Mazur who had me submit it to the MAA journal -- the most read math journal. Math professor Luigi Borzacchini stated I was a good mathematician -- only there was no historical evidence for what I discovered. My math was correct but I could not corroborate its previous existence.

Anyway the main paranormal training text is called "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" translated by Charles Luk and the foundation practice is called the "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" practice. This practice is the 12 notes of the music scale as the energy nodes along the outside of the body. You get it as the "level 1 sitting meditation" c.d. from Spring Forest Qigong but it's also the basis for Yogananda's lineage. So in terms of Western science when we listen to sound internally we can hear ultrasound. The book "Magic of the Senses" by Drosich documents that the highest pitch we hear externally resonates as ultrasound internally. Focusing on ultrasound internally as meditation (the source of our thoughts) then ionizes our vagus nerve which enables serotonin of the lower body to bypass our blood brain barrier. This is the natural alchemical way to build up our melatonin for increased DMT production but since it's ultrasound ionization there is also creation of electromagnetic fields.

Plant-based paranormal experience is electrochemical energy which then converts to what's called shen in China or shakti in India or biophotons in Western science -- but it's laser holographic energy. Still for astral travel there has to be a power behind the light energy and this power is the electromagnetic energy called chi or prana and this electromagnetic energy is stored in the lower body during yoga training. That's why the electromagnetic energy of my full lotus pineal gland was able to over-ride the electrochemical energy of the psychedelic plants.

So Jenny Randles talks about the "Oz Effect" during UFO paranormal encounters and this is the high pitch of the ultrasound ionizing the chemicals to activate the DMT. In Indian yoga this is called "Omkara" -- the message is that we can not see consciousness but we can hear it. We exist within sound -- no one is listening as reality is a holograph. Consciousness is the eternal complementary opposite resonance of this electrochemical emotional energy (yin) and electromagnetic spirit energy (yang) which then bends and creates spacetime.

I had recently emailed Micah Hanks about my DMT experience as a test against my qigong training since his DMT writing was mentioned on Daily Grail Frontpage | TDG - Science, Magick, Myth and History. Micah said he had not done DMT -- and this is my point -- several writers actually do not do the research. Micah mentioned Daniel Pinchbeck doing DMT -- but Pinchbeck has not done the yoga chakra training. So, again, I did both and was able to transcend both by comparing them. I even corresponded with Pinchbeck about this comparison of yoga and DMT. Since our correspondence on Pinchbeck's old http://breakingopenthehead.com he had some discussions with some yoga instructors in NYC on his new Reality Sandwich | Evolving consciousness, bite by bite. but he still has not done the training. I even encouraged Mitch Horowitz, the Penguin publisher of Pinchbeck, to go visit Chunyi Lin for Mitch's new book on the Occult in the U.S. but I don't know if he did. Mitch said he was going to try to see Chunyi Lin. Mitch's book focused on the history of the Occult -- yet this Taoist Yoga alchemy is fairly new in the U.S. And more so, my nonwestern music analysis, whereby I discovered that the Pythagorean Tetrad is the Taoist yang and yin -- 2:3 is yang and 3:4 is yin and this is the same as the three gunas of India. This originally comes from the Bushmen music trance healing culture.

O.K. so David you talk about seeing the dead spirit of a lady. David I also saw dead spirits and I did so because of my qigong training. More so I told no one what I saw yet qigong master Chunyi Lin corroborated what I saw. It was amazing. In qigong there is "bigu" -- it's alchemy -- so when the training gets advanced food and water are no longer needed. Bigu was tested by chemistry professor Rustom Roy -- no loss of nutrition happens even though no food is taken. I created water through my brain via an electrolysis. The top of the head gets soft and pulsates with electromagnetic energy as does the center of the hands and feet. Also the electromagnetic fields got stronger and stronger. Then I went to the Level 3 Spring Forest Qigong retreat and Chunyi Lin was in full lotus. First I saw yellow orbs coming out of his head -- and breaking off. But then I saw yellow orbs floating in from outside the room -- and they floated towards Chunyi Lin and hovered by him. I told no one what I saw. Later though Chunyi Lin said that if people see spirit light coming out of his body that's just his "yin spirits" going out to heal the students. Then Chunyi Lin said that someone told him they saw spirits come into the room. Chunyi Lin said these are dead spirits which come to see him for his chi energy so that the dead spirits can find peace. Now for my masters degree research -- U of Minnesota, 2001 -- I had just read of this same phenomenon happening with the most famous Buddhist monk of Thailand. This is a very rare book which I had ordered through inter-library loan:

The Venerable Phra Acharn Mun Bhuridatta Thera, meditation master by Bauw Ñanasampanno, Phra Maha.; Siri Buddhasukh. (Samudra Prakarn, Thailand : Buddhist Books Service, 1995)

Since then I've never read of this anywhere else -- how the dead spirits regularly visit this meditation master to find peace while the full lotus yoga master gave a "chi-emitting" lecture. This Buddhist monk also had telepathy just as Chunyi Lin has. In fact when I finished my 8 day fast -- on just half glass of water -- I had very strong electromagnetic energy and I had telepathy, telekinesis and precognition. I healed my mom of a serious health condition -- smoker's legs -- so she no longer needs surgical stockings. I was also doing spirit exorcism of her. And then I accidentally pulled this old lady's spirit out of her head -- she had asked me for a healing -- but I forgot that you're not supposed to pull energy blockages right out of the center of the skull. I felt this heavy electromagnetic blob pulled out from the top of her skull -- even though I was not touching her -- and she was facing forward and I to her side. Right when I felt that the old lady immediately started bawling and kept bawling for at least 15 minutes. Then later when I sat in full lotus the whole room spun around me as a spacetime vortex. After that I stopped practicing so intensively -- for my training I had no salt for several months! So the spiritual training is very serious and the opposite of the material realm.

David -- you say you wish you could go back from your paranormal experiences. Guess what? I can no longer eat normal food!! Chunyi Lin fasts one day a week and the rest of the time eats one little vegetarian meal a day. Monks have to eat very little food. If I eat normal food then it causes strange paranormal effects. But if I fast and eat just a vegetarian small meal diet -- called "modified bigu" -- then people think I'm in a cult. Modern people are not spiritual -- yet now my spirituality is hard-wired. I have no choice -- this is not about choice -- it's about resonance of reality. I have a blog on this called Natural Resonance Revolution

David I even had to quit my job because of all the strangeness I experienced. I was doing healing for free but people could not admit what was happening because it went against left-brain dominant reality. The transmission of energy is done in silence since it's right brain dominant -- activated through the vagus nerve. Now I spend my time healing my parents as they are in their mid-70s. This has been a great gift for me -- to do healing for them -- but it's strange! I can not say what I'm doing to my parents and they understand that I have to be on a special diet but they do not know why. This stuff deals with subconscious spiritual possession issues. I just sit in full lotus because it's my body and that's the only last freedom left! If I try to have a special diet then people freak out about it, etc.

Thanks for the show. I've listened to Micah a lot on his show with Joshua P. Warren Speaking Of Strange with Joshua P Warren On News Radio 570am WWNC
 
Sorry OP that's too long for me to read right now on my iPhone.

What I fid wanna say is Micah sounds like a real cool guy man. Next round table I wsntbto hear Micah, Chris Obrien & Greg Bishop. That would be a fun discussion I think. A conversation the late Mac Tonnies would add a lot to too.
 
Huge thanks for another great show, I like that guy Micah. And another THANKS for David sharing a little more of his experiences. These stories and (their implications) fascinate me. I would love to see a simple sketch of the ghost like apparition he say in Venezuela. I have a very clear image in my head of what he described, but it may not be what David saw. I am picturing it as a black shadow, but I would love a little bit of visual help.
 
I haven't heard the episode yet, but having experienced DMT several times myself, I'm glad to see someone introducing this topic into the paranormal/ufo discussion. It's impossible to relate the experience to anyone who doesn't know it, but it's absolutely vital to consider when talking about consciousness and "reality". Not everyone can witness a "UFO" but everyone can and does experience DMT ( at least on some level) . It's bigger and more important than we've imagined yet. Dimethyltryptamine is where the real mystery is.
 
I was fascinated by David's experience. Thanks for sharing.

For me Personally. The idea, that UFO'S are piloted by Space travellers from outer space or by time travellers from our future. I just Don't believe in those theories any more . I think they are dead end theories for me personally.
 
I was reading your wild and expansive post and just had to log in to reply.

Can you really 'flex your pineal gland?' Is the thalamus open for activation? These are areas of the brain and have no muscle mass to flex.

What the fuck does this mean?..."subconscious perceptions which is normally integrated with the cortex contextual analysis." Is that a hitherto unknown area of the cerebellum?

Amazingly I discovered that salvia activated the kundalini healing energy -- called "jing" in Taoist alchemy -- it's the electrochemical life force energy as bliss. But still the electromagnetic third eye over-rided the salvia so I had no hallucinations. The salvia tried to pull my spirit out of my body but the electromagnetic third eye was too strong. My spirit was only pulled halfway out of my body -- again I was in full lotus flexing my pineal gland against the salvia.
Que? Lot of words and very little meaning. The Paracast slogan is 'separating noise from signal.' I'm hearing a lot of noise here. Salvia isn't some spiritual passport to enlightenment....it's a recreational drug available to anyone with the will and the money.

I created water through my brain via an electrolysis. The top of the head gets soft and pulsates with electromagnetic energy as does the center of the hands and feet. Also the electromagnetic fields got stronger and stronger. Then I went to the Level 3 Spring Forest Qigong retreat and Chunyi Lin was in full lotus.
GTFO!
 
I'm hearing a lot of noise here. Salvia isn't some spiritual passport to enlightenment....it's a recreational drug available to anyone with the will and the money.

No, It's not just a recreational drug , it's got much potential to be used as a tool for spiritual insight and development, after all that's what it's been used for for centuries before people started posting videos of it on Youtube. Nothing is a "spiritual passport" automatically, but a lot of these plants can be used as such. And they work if you put in the time.

And yeah you can practice activating your pineal gland with certain meditation exercises. It's not supernatural, it's physical phenomenon.
 
The "flexing" of the pineal gland is difficult to explain -- there is a muscle in the skull --

http://www.face-and-emotion.com/dataface/anatomy/head_lateralview.jsp

So this is what is flexed. To feel the pineal gland is to use proprioreception. The "Brain Port" is described in this 2007 article -- but it states scientists still do not understand what's going on -- essentially your different senses can be cross-wired as direct electromagnetic feedback -- so you can see with your tongue or hear, etc.

BrainPort lets you see with your tongue, might actually make it to market -- Engadget


http://www.lariaminfo.org/pdfs/WaPo-McCredie-It-Just-Takes-Practice.pdf


Now the idea that humans can create electromagnetic fields with their mind -- and store up that energy in their lower body -- is also taught and demonstrated by John Chang who was tested by Western scientists:


This ability works through the parasympathetic vagus nerve and is based on storing up the sex energy -- Professor Robert Sapolsky documents in his 401 Unauthorized

So the reason for celibacy is to keep the relaxation parasympathetic vagus nerve system activated as the male ejaculation is the trigger for the stress sympathetic nervous system (p. 125, Why zebras don't get ulcers).

John Beaulieu of biosonics documents that sound therapy activates the vagus nerve for relaxation which then also stimulates the immune system:

http://biosonics.com/downloads/pdfs/SoundTherapyInducedRelaxation.pdf

The lateral hypothalamus has long been recognized for its role in the
regulation of motivation and emotion and the autonomic concomitants of related
behaviors [49]. The densest cortical projection to the lateral hypothalamus arises from the
infralimbic cortex [50]. Pressor sites within the insular cortex project more heavily to the
lateral hypothalamus than do depressor sites and are represented at caudal levels.
Anatomical studies of the lateral hypothalamus demonstrate projections to the
periaqueductal gray matter, the parabrachial region, parvicellular formation, dorsal vagal
complex, and spinal cord [51, 52]. Furthermore, descending projections of the lateral
hypothalamus terminate as a capsule around the dorsal motor nucleus of the vagus nerve,
which provides secretomotor fibers to the stomach wall, pancreas, and small intestine.
These neural patterns might account for the close association of cardiac and gastric
responses.


So as the vagus nerve is activated through piezoelectric ultrasound ionization there is an increased actvation of the endocrine system which is related to the chakras. That's the cortex and subconscious connection.

The lower body serotonin is then transduced by the vagus nerve into the brain via the carotid artery on the right side of the neck and through the endothelial cells.

The sensation is a magnetic bliss in the center of the brain and the pineal gland can then be felt.

That's what I call "flexing the pineal gland."

Thanks for asking.

p.s. here's a study on bigu -- a peer-reviewed report -- going without food and getting external "chi" and there's no loss of nutrition:

http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/22/5/392

and the bigu study of no water for 15 days:

http://www.yanxinqigong.cn/papers/Bigu.pdf
 
Micah seems nice enough. He has NO IDEA of what he's discussing in relation to the realms of psychedelics, shamanism, etc. Unfortunately David doesn't either. I've listened since Day 1 and never posted. I LOVE the show and I truly respect David. HOWEVER, the shamanic path is REAL in the purest since of the world "real". What is this realm/dimension exactly? Who knows. Only the experienced know it's "real". It's no different than when David speaks of his visual encounter of the craft in Venezuela. He doesn't know what it is exactly, where it's from exactly, only that exactly it is "real". I was made a believer of the shamanic path due to repeated experiences. I would advocate reading Terence McKenna for an inkling of how real and odd this phenomenon truly is. Even after reading, it is not EXPERIENCING the "other" intelligence. I agree with McKenna that it is truly "alien" in that there is no reference point for it. It changed my life completely and confirmed the existence of other intelligence, which can only be called "alien", as in "other". These "beings" are called "self-transforming machine elves" by McKenna, but for a lay explanation, the best I can give is somewhat "insectoid/reptilian". Never encountered anything like it before other than exotic animal life. It communicates through telepathy and reads every thought you have. You can deny that it's real and it will confirm that it is indeed right there. It is like trying to put the ineffable into our daily conversation. To call it subjective/objective is "either/or" thinking also, and it is so far beyond that in it's profundity. I just keep hearing everyone in this field speaking about it and writing books about it, and NONE have experienced this. I have, and so have thousands of others. I read Rick Strassman's stuff over a decade ago, and it is interesting, but far from all-encompassing. You should do some simple internet searches for trip experiences and you will see there are thousands of experiencers who tell the same tale over and over. At some point Strassman concluded it MUST be "real", and that an alien presence was there. Strassman never did it. He did study it with injections for a decade. Most users smoke DMT, but Ayahuasca is the original shamanic source, and it is a tea. Smoking is ultra intense and not recommended for recreation or beginning experiencers. If you want the best experience, find a real shaman. Many come to the US and offer sessions, but they are NOT cheap. I am only trying to help in the search and confirmation of other life/intelligence. I cannot help but support Terence McKenna's works and many others because it is true as true can be. "High strangeness" is the shamanic realm. The "elves" are real and will communicate. They will literally blow you out of the water intellectually and spiritually, and will crush your worldview. They may GIVE you religion. What an interesting reality we have.
 
Dr. Rick Strassman is an "M.D." -- M.D. is not the same level as Ph.D. -- an M.D. does not have to do the same level of intensive research as a Ph.D. requires -- an M.D. is more technical training which is specialized.

Dr. Strassman wrote this response as his final direction for what he thinks DMT means:

The Official Graham Hancock Website: Author of the Month


Author: Rick Strassman (209.188.117.---)
Date: 02-Jul-08 23:12

Ayahuasca is increasingly popular. And indigenous imbibers have reported "alien" themes, spaces ships, and the like, before the massive influx of Westerners and their ideas into their culture.
The message of the DMT realm is one that I have pondered for the last 12 years. I have also struggled to come up with a reason for the existence of endogenous DMT in all of our bodies, all of the time.
I have turned to my own roots, the Hebrew Bible, for a way to understand the mesage of the DMT realms, in a way that's compatible with my upbringing and my culture. This gets a few raised eyebrows, but I've been mostly undaunted, and am working on a book project regarding prophecy, prophetic consciousness, and prophetic message -- as viewed through the lenses of the Hebrew Bible. The working title is something to the effect of "Prophecy: Its Nature and Message, and Why It's Our Birthright."

Rick Strassman
O.K. it's important to realize what I stated:

I tested DMT against the 3rd eye full lotus training.

Dr. Strassman did not do this -- there is a connection between psychedelics and healing energy but the connection is based on nonwestern music.

All human cultures use the 1-4-5 music intervals.

So when Dr. Strassman tries to fall back on Hebrew for the answer -- that's just not scientific.

There's a lot of unnecessary baggage in researching paranormal healing but the original healing culture -- the Bushmen -- did not rely on psychotropic plants.

The Bushmen created something called N/um which is the hot boiling energy in the belly -- this is the same as "tummo" in Tibet or kundalini in India or jing in Taoist yoga.

N/um is the ionization of the electrochemical energy.

Then a state called !Xia was achieved -- this means the N/um shoots up the spine into the brain and a trance state is achieved whereby biophotons can be seen. Spirits can be seen and energy can be transmitted through the eyes and hands -- via the pineal gland.

The Bushmen relied on trance dancing and fasting -- by the men only for a month -- in order for the men to get initial training as healers. The males did not become master healers until they were 40. 90% of the males became healers.

Now Graham Hancock has argued, based on his own experience with ayahausca and with Dr. Strassman's research, that the visions are real.

But Graham Hancock only covers the Bushmen culture in a cursory fashion -- he did not do his research! He just relies on a couple sources in a superficial manner.

So sometimes if the female Bushmen were training to be shamans then the females would use psychedelics in order to help initiate the trance state. But the females hardly trained to be shamans -- because the pain was too strong.

It's important to realize the difference again -- plants are electrochemical energy but the N/um energy is based on storing up electromagnetic energy through ionization. The females have to sing all night because the female voice is the electrochemical energy and this feeds the males' energy which then ionizes the female energy to create stronger electromagnetic healing energy.

The alchemical resonance healing then is a free open system whereas the plant energy feeds off your own electrochemical energy -- so after a strong DMT trip you will be healed but you will also be "spent."

Whereas the alchemical paranormal healing energy is an "open" system because it's based on resonating consciousness itself as the natural complementary opposites of harmonics - what quantum physics called the "time-frequency uncertainty principle." Only it's not converted back to a classical spatial measurement of time.

So the qigong or yoga alchemical training is more difficult then the psychedelic training. Psychedelics as healing and visionary agents are very helpful but a shamanic healer using DMT can only SEE the energy blockages but can not actually transmit healing energy!

This is a crucial difference that must be realized. When enables the transmission and storing up of the energy is a formless process as consciousness -- it's abstract and is the foundation of left-brain logic, "I Am that I Am" is both the definition of God in the Judaic tradition and in the Vedic tradition. It's based on what Dr. Jacques Cauvin calls the "symbolic revolution" of around 9,000 BCE when rectilinear technology was emphasized -- ritual geometry.

I have a 90 page book on this which is free full preview if you want more details. I also have plenty of online articles and interviews

My online articles, blogbook, masters thesis, and lulu.com book -- full free preview: The Actual Plan for the Matrix: Incommensurability, Harmonic Resonance, and the Religion of Technology What is nonduality, nondualism, Advaita? Part Eight The Natural Resonance Revolution by Drew Hempel in Religion Spirituality

Drew Hempel ~ Epicenters of Justice -- Restoring the Lost Logos (Part 2) The BioMusic Conspiracy The Secret of Psychic Music Healing - Parapsychology articles and blog

Against Archytas:Â* How the West Lost Alchemy or Paranormal Complimentary Opposite Harmonics - Parapsychology articles and blog How Qigong or Taoist Yoga Explains Gurdjieff - Parapsychology articles and blog A Conversation with Qigong Researcher Drew Hempel
 
We don't even know where consciousness resides; how can we purport to understand the effects that psychedelics have on our consciousnesses?

baby steps.
 
We don't even know where consciousness resides; how can we purport to understand the effects that psychedelics have on our consciousnesses?

Good point. But psychedelics are the best tools we have .​
 
Well the question is who is "we"?

Science is one "we" but then there's nonwestern philosophy -- like Advaita Vedanta or there's Dan Zahavi's books on self alterity, etc. -- these are different approaches to "consciousness." Even the concept of consciousness is possibly a cultural construct from left-brain dominance. In terms of science I think Stuart Hameroff is correct to cite Godel's Incompleteness Theorem as the basis for the quantum brain - Quantum Consciousness . Stuart Hameroff But that is, again, based on the "time-frequency uncertainty principle" in quantum physics, discovered by Dennis Gabor. Science, by definition, can not solve consciousness because time is measured as a "set" -- a logical containment of infinity using geometry. The concept of irrational magnitude and proof by contradiction are the foundation for Western logic and science -- going back to Archtyas, Eudoxus and Plato. This issue of incommensurability is exactly what I critique in my music analysis -- nonwestern music as the origins of Western science.

Peter Kingsley did his Ph.D. on Pythagorean philosophy and the origins of Western science -- published by Oxford University Press -- detailing how Plato and Aristotle lied about Pythagoras. So when scientists talk about Pythagoras and consciousness -- they are wrong! Peter Kingsley - I recommend his book "In the Dark Places of Wisdom" but his Ph.D. is called "Ancient Mystery, Magic and Philosophy."
 
We don't even know where consciousness resides; how can we purport to understand the effects that psychedelics have on our consciousnesses?

Good point. But psychedelics are the best tools we have .

Additionally, we have those who proclaim to move out-of-body, such as Thomas Campbell, formerly of the Monroe Institute (now a NASA physicist), and William Buhlman, both of whom appear credible. We also have near death experiencers (such as Pam Reynolds), and we have Tibetan monks. The older Tibetan monks I have met claim that once your learn how to remove your consciousness from your physical body, it can reside whereever you wish it to reside, and then instantaneously. I personally have never done this, so this is hearsay, but still interesting insofar as it foots with what Campbell, Buhlman and others have to say.

There are also a handful of scientific experiments, which we are all probably aware, which do not form the foundation of scientific orthodoxy but are interesting nonetheless (e.g., intention experiments, perception experiments, Cleve Backster's work) . Additionally, some physicists, such as Amit Goswami, extend quantum mechanics outside the realm of the subatomic, atomic and molecular levels to the macro levels and claim our consciousness is fundamental and reality around us is derivative (including even the presence of our brains, to perceive the physical world around us). Interesting theory that has yet to be proven.

Those who purport to control their OBEs claim that we should avoid drugs like DMT and psychedelics -- that there is potential for the experience to mess with us. I never really understood fully the source of their comments which I have only read in print (Christopher O'Brien's tricksters at work?).
 

Those who purport to control their OBEs claim that we should avoid drugs like DMT and psychedelics -- that there is potential for the experience to mess with us.

I don't know about OBEs too much specifically, but I don't really agree with this philosophy. You hear that a lot from orthodox spiritual schools; everything from western meditation to Christian ministers. But everyone should have the right and opportunity to choose to experience the states achieved with psychedelics. They can be overwhelming but they offer vast worlds and self discovery if you're responsible, and shouldn't be discouraged if a person wants to pursue it.
 
I agree with everyone's interpretations. You cannot say that noetic experiencers are "wrong". Strassman and McKenna are not hallowed. They are the most "popular" of the known DMT thinkers/writers. The point is that it is close to impossible to describe this realm and experience. You MUST do it. I only wanted to point this out because writers like Micah Hanks are being interviewed all over the place and they keep saying "well you don't have to DO it, but THIS is what is happening". They go on to say these chemicals do this and that, but then turn around and say no one really knows. Just like we don't know where the alien encounter/abduction scenario comes from exactly, so is the DMT dimension. It is "real" to the experiencers, and there are lots of them. It is a phenomenon that shouldn't be blown off. It may be no different than the Bigfoot people who don't like the UFO people. Everyone wants to be "right", or THE guru, etc. It's not about ego and who is the ONE. However, when you encounter the DMT creatures, they make you feel like you are indeed CHOSEN somehow. My brother asked me if I had ever read the lyrics to "Rosetta Stoned" by the band TOOL, and I went and read them. I'm far from a TOOL disciple, but Maynard wrote a very nice song about the DMT experience. I also hear Daniel Pinchbeck echo McKenna by saying "why not take the FAST route to learning about this, because not everyone can meditate a lifetime and get this experience". All paths are right. DMT actually gave me deep respect for Hinduistic principles and teachings, and all ancient religions for that matter. We are all possibly an energetic matrix and we could be controlled by Reptilians. Yes, David Icke could be on to something. The bottom line is that we all need to continue to search and share.
 
Ancient religious traditions that use hallucinogens don't just take them on a whim and they were used sparingly in a greater context of religion, ritual and spirituality. I think of this pop-a-pill culture that we live in, and have to come to conclusion the whole point of hallucinogens is lost. We don't really know if they expand consciousness as their proponents claim or if all they produce are illusions. I tend to think the later in that they change peoples perceptions, but the change is still an illusion.
I like McKenna and I think he has some interesting things to say. However, if you have to take a drug in order to learn that "you monkeys only think you are running the show," then maybe you weren't that enlightened to begin with.
And then of course, Pinchbeck makes claims that you can fast-track your spiritual growth by taking DMT. I think spirituality has to be a growth process and one that takes time. Trying to fast-track it would be missing the point.
I am not trying to criticize anyone here who has had experiences with these substances or question if they helped you in your understanding of a greater whole.
Personally, I remain open yet skeptical. Reality is seen through the filters of our perception, biology, and experience; just because hallucinogens change the perspective doesn't mean they are gateway to a greater understanding of our reality. They may be helpful to people in that they create the understanding that reality is perceptual and there are aspects to reality that we don't normally see. Hallucinogens allow it to be understood that there is a greater whole beyond the human reality, but I don't think anyone can definitively state what the greater reality truly is.
 
Anyone who decides to quote Pinchbeck is not gaining cred points with me. I've read enough about him to know he's a complete yutz, not worthy of the ink spent on his "thoughts".

dB
 
Trying to talk about the DMT experience is like trying to talk about a dream, ultimately ineffable. Like I said earlier, it's impossible to accurately describe, but it can be life changing and utterly beyond belief. I imagine a UFO sighting or encounter is something you could draw a vague parallel to in that sense. For me it opened some windows into other realms of existence , or consciousness , or reality.
Strassman's experiments were fascinating but only the tip of the iceberg. It's bizarre that mainstream science and psychology isn't working around the clock to try and understand what it is and what it does to the human animal. That would be truly progressive research well spent.
 
Why NOT try the experience if it's available? I am certainly not trying to break anyone's moral, legal, etc, beliefs. However, to deny it's existence when it's right here, right now, is really narrow in view. I quoted Frank Zappa on a guitar forum yesterday. He shocked an interviewer by saying "I love MOTORHEAD. It's like fast food music, and sometimes I'm in a hurry." He then said Motorhead was never going to be confused with Stravinsky. I think the Western World misses the entire point of shamanism in general, because we grew up in Churches. 100% different lives. You can simply go into the forest soberly and observe life in its purest form, and it is utterly amazing. Everything is utterly amazing and profound. The fact that we are floating in infinite space and have discovered DNA, etc, etc, etc. You get the point. I think trying to trivialize Terence McKenna is similar to trying to describe the DMT experience. I think Terence got on a lot of people's nerves because he was his own guy, fresh if you will. He was the Timothy Leary of the age. Yet he was very humble and cool, and tried to share his years of learning. He never put down the other paths. Quite the opposite.
He's similar to William Cooper in that they are both misquoted and many people don't want you to read their information. It's very easy to sway people with the web and in print, radio, podcasts. We are all human and easily influenced. Everyone wants to be heard and respected, me included. But it's not black/white or wrong/right. It's very gray. Everything appears to be connected if you delve into things. We cut ourselves off from the world constantly because we have to earn money to live. We don't have TIME to devote to the shamanic path. I agree it is NOT recreational. Don't get me wrong, it can be FUN for sure, but it can be utterly frightening. That is why the shamanic path is respected through time. No man-made substances can do what the natural ones can. At least I haven't discovered them. I am completely sober currently by choice and there is nothing wrong with it. However, don't confuse the shamanic ways with being "on drugs". BIG difference. There are so many plant teachers and intelligences out there. There are many fine lines. BUT, if we don't push the limits of understanding, then we will stagnate and never grow. Life seems to be about growing, if anything. I may not agree with everything Dave, Gene, or anyone on the forum/show says, but I am 100% behind it and I listen to every single episode. I have been doing my own searching since I was a child. I just want to learn. Terence McKenna pushes "honesty", both intellectually and spiritually. It's very hard to be honest for so many reasons. Truth can set us all free. Plant teachers are one path of many.
 
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