March 2nd Show - Dorothy Izatt

[Chuckleberryfinn]

"reality" is a very subjective thing.

False. Reality is entirely objective. Only our experience of reality is subjective.

Don't fall into the relativism trap. Your brain will turn to shit very fast.

Thank you for your concern re my brain matter. You would be surprised what a brain really smells like ...

I respect your perception of "reality", but I would respectfully disagree.

If you really believe what you're saying about the fundamental subjectivity of external reality, you've got no business disagreeing with anyone about anything.

So, tell me. It's a matter of objective fact that reality is entirely subjective, is it? Can you spell out for me exactly how that works?

I'd love to discuss "reality" with you. Before I do so, I need to know how you define the term. May I also suggest that this may derail this particular thread a bit

Subjective: existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought.

Reality does not exist in the mind. It has form and substance which remain whither the mind perceives it or no. Reality is an object; it works in a certain way which can be measured and tested. I'm not saying that we understand the object; we know that it has a form which exists outside of the human mind.

As for the videos that this woman took, very strange indeed. I don't much care for the people representing her, however. Like the United States Congress and Senate, they seem to represent their own interests instead of the person supposedly being represented.

 

[Ally]

Jeff R,
I just want to share my opnion on the entire change your reality positive thinking gurus. It has been my experience that this phenemonon has a mind of it's own.

Don't be surprised if you experiecnce what you have always experienced.

 

[swatcher]

Chuckleberryfinn,

I received an e-mail from the forum staff not to derail this thread. Of course I'll comply. In closing I'd like to point out that there are two major philosophical schools (realism/ant-realism) re our subject. The debate has been going on for centuries, neither school has provided absolute proof on this matter.

 

[jritzmann]

Guys-I just woke up from a nap I started at 6pm...now 4am. Christ I only laid down for a minute and look what happens.

Anyway, I'll record the mp3 tomorrow morning and get it uploaded...sorry I slept away my friday night.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

This thread was derailed long before we started.

Also, regarding "realism/antrealism," you can be and are once again wrong. If you had read the heavy hitters in that debate, you would know that there is unequivocally an objective reality that exists and has existed long before the human mind, or any mind for that matter, has been around to percieve it.

But, lucky for you, I'm leaving the dead in their graves this time by dropping this issue.

 

[jritzmann]

Hey all- I got this mp3 done, but it's an hour long and 58 megs. If you guys wanna compound your emails I can send it thru yousendit and you can hear it. I don't have the kind of bandwidth on my hosting to do it myself. I plan on doing a podcast soon, but I haven't yet set that hosting agent up.

So, if ya wanna hear it, just pm your email and I'll blast the link to ya.

 

[dorkbot]

Can you post a senduit link or something?

 

[jritzmann]

uploading now, didn't even know about that service...post link in a minute. Believe me, it's nothing professional sounding...just me talkin'. So, dont have any great expectations.

 

[mike]

heres another, watch the clip and tell me how many times the ball being used by the people in white shirts gets bounced, not passed.

how many times does the ball being used by the people in white shirts get bounced

watch the clip once and post the number



http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/grafs/demos/15.html

sorry to those i missed

some see 9 bounces some see 10

but most dont see the man in the gorilla suit

thats the nature of a good deception, you dont even know its happened to you

 

[jritzmann]

Cool. It's here for a day:
http://senduit.com/e36a1b

 

[swatcher]

heres another, watch the clip and tell me how many times the ball being used by the people in white shirts gets bounced, not passed.

how many times does the ball being used by the people in white shirts get bounced

watch the clip once and post the number



http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/grafs/demos/15.html

sorry to those i missed

some see 9 bounces some see 10

but most dont see the man in the gorilla suit

thats the nature of a good deception, you dont even know its happened to you

Your reply also shows the importance of an unbiased "tester". What tells you that everybody who gave you a number didn't see the man in a suit? Your question didn't include the man in the suit, so we didn't mention it. I think the "joke" is on you

 

[SR2]

Cool. It's here for a day:
http://senduit.com/e36a1b

File has expired. Wow, that was fast. Jeff, can you upload it to Mediafire.

http://www.mediafire.com/

 

[mike]

heres another, watch the clip and tell me how many times the ball being used by the people in white shirts gets bounced, not passed.

how many times does the ball being used by the people in white shirts get bounced

watch the clip once and post the number



http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/grafs/demos/15.html

sorry to those i missed

some see 9 bounces some see 10

but most dont see the man in the gorilla suit

thats the nature of a good deception, you dont even know its happened to you

Your reply also shows the importance of an unbiased "tester". What tells you that everybody who gave you a number didn't see the man in a suit? Your question didn't include the man in the suit, so we didn't mention it. I think the "joke" is on you

ive seen this test done in front of a large live audience, i assure you most people dont see the gorilla, others have PM'd me here and confirmed just that, that on the first watch they didnt see the gorilla

its not a joke its a demonstration of how i can use words to change the perception of the reality

 

[mike]

heres another, watch the clip and tell me how many times the ball being used by the people in white shirts gets bounced, not passed.

how many times does the ball being used by the people in white shirts get bounced

watch the clip once and post the number



http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/grafs/demos/15.html

ive seen this test done in front of a large live audience, i assure you most people dont see the gorilla, others have PM'd me here and confirmed just that, that on the first watch they didnt see the gorilla

its not a joke its a demonstration of how i can use words to change the perception of the reality

 

[swatcher]

This thread was derailed long before we started.

Also, regarding "realism/antrealism," you can be and are once again wrong. If you had read the heavy hitters in that debate, you would know that there is unequivocally an objective reality that exists and has existed long before the human mind, or any mind for that matter, has been around to percieve it.

But, lucky for you, I'm leaving the dead in their graves this time by dropping this issue.

My apologies to the mod, but one more thing:
http://theparacast.com/forums/objective-or-subjective-reality-t-1755.html

Will you wake the zombie

 

[Miah]

heres another, watch the clip and tell me how many times the ball being used by the people in white shirts gets bounced, not passed.

how many times does the ball being used by the people in white shirts get bounced

watch the clip once and post the number



http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/grafs/demos/15.html

ive seen this test done in front of a large live audience, i assure you most people dont see the gorilla, others have PM'd me here and confirmed just that, that on the first watch they didnt see the gorilla

its not a joke its a demonstration of how i can use words to change the perception of the reality

Soooo, how many times did the ball get bounced by the guys in white shirts?

 

[mike]

some of the bounces cant actually be seen, but assuming the ball is being bounced in every obvious case it gets bounced by the people in the white shirts 10 times

 

[Miah]

People? I thought the first time you said GUYS?

 

[jritzmann]

MP3 link...sorry about the first one, said it'd be up a day at least. Just checked this one and it's all go.

http://www.mediafire.com/?c5x0gwgynd2

 

[Hummarstra]

Since there are two threads on this show, I will crosspost.

"Call me disagreeable, but I was disappointed by this episode. The evidence may be compelling (I haven't see it yet), but Peter Guttilla seemed evasive, full of obfuscation, claims he wouldn't follow up on, and a name dropper. I've dealt with folks with senile dementia for years now, and his argumentative and equivocative stance reminded me of that.

Further, he also tried his best to enforce himself as a co-experiencer, and work himself into the story, and he made bald, sweeping claims such as inventing the idea of human looking aliens, essentially nordics.

Even furthermore, if you say you have a problem with a well known scholar, such as Vallee, then you had better be able to say why. Saying that you have trouble with someone, and THEN taking the high ground, is just a simple way of equating your standing with theirs. In other words, it's to elevate the speaker. My BS detector had been going off for a while with this Peter guy, but this pretty much sealed it.

So, sorry to be contrarian, but this was not a good episode imo. Whether the information was good or not was hidden by a difficult guest."

I'm with you, Scott. Almost if I had written your post myself word for word.