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Lance's Message to the Forum

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Angel of Ioren

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
Hi everyone,

Lance has sent me this message on Facebook and asked me to post it. I am only the messenger. Please post your comments and I'm sure Lance will read them.

From Lance:

Hello Fellow Paracastians,

I always admired Gene for allowing skeptical thought here on these forums and I have had a lot of fun discussing stuff with all of you. There are plenty of paranormal sites that don't allow anything but true belief.

Recently, Gene asked me to lighten up on Christopher. I have certainly been hard on Chris's ideas because I see so much of what he says as anti-scientific and anti rational. Several times I have shown that some of the things he has posted are also demonstrably wrong.

Sadly, I have also sometimes used improper forms of argumentation like Ad Hominem (as did Chris, I might add--it happens on the internet).

After Gene's request, I tried to focus only on the ideas being discussed, scrupulously avoiding anything but that (my posts are still up, I certainly can't change them) but this was still not good enough apparently for Gene and he asked me to voluntarily stop posting for 30 days.

Seeing the writing on the wall, I knew that the forums had changed and that Gene was willing to upset the balance in order to be sure that Chris wasn't disturbed by any inconvenient facts. I found this a bit sad but inevitable. As soon as the Project Camelot/Open Minds/Adventures Unlimited kind of "thinking" begins to creep in, it rots anything like honest discourse.

I asked Gene if it were possible to delete my account and all my posts so that Chris might be feel even more comfortable. He responded that he couldn't do that and immediately disabled my account. So I didn't get a chance for a last post.

I bid everyone a fond adieu and wish Gene the best in the future. Gene is a good guy. He just got caught in a bad situation and I fully understand.

Lance
 
while I will miss the contributions of Lance and had some good conversations with him let me say this. I don't think it's fair to Chris or Gene to say Gene got caught up. Gene is a grown man and has been doing this for years. If he didn't honestly think Chris added to the show then he would have gone in a different direction. Just because Gene doesn't come on here and argue with ya and state his beleifs doen'st mean he doesn't have any. He would have to have some symphathy toward this stuff or he coulnd't do the show the way he does it. But, that's between him and whoever he discusses it with. The bottom line is this is a paranormal show. If you think it's all bunk then why even worry about it? I've never really understood that one. Please don't give me the old "A'h worry bout the gullible crap." There are many, many more folks such as the hungry and the homeless and the mentally ill and the drug addicted to worry about. So, to "worry" because somebody takes comfort in the possibiltiy of the paranormal is just a little silly and to be honest, dishonest! Still, again I do wish Lance well and I hope to see him again around the WWW if not here in the future.

Peace.

Steve.
 
I also will miss Lance. But i can't say i'm surprised. He did do some good research but it was maybe the way he presented it, in his snidey, sarcastic manner which ultimately led the hosts to say, enough is enough. If you're pissing off the shows hosts then you're on a fast track to bansville. If Biedny was still on board he would have been banned in a heartbeat, months ago, if not earlier.
It is a shame but ultimately, like tyder, i wonder what the motivation for somebody, who believes that there is nothing paranormal happening in the world, is for being a part of a forum like this.
Anyway, hopefully we will see Lance back here one day soon.
 
This is really embarrassing. I almost can't believe it. Lance gave so much to the Paracast Community. Can someone please reinstate Lance's account?
 
I'm here because it's interesting even though I have not come across anything yet that has shown to me that UFOs and the paranormal are anything more than a misunderstanding of common phenomena. If there were no skeptics on this forum, it would be a waste of time. Challenging your beliefs is important. Lance will certainly let us know if he wants back in.
 
The Pair of Cats said:
It is a shame but ultimately, like tyder, i wonder what the motivation for somebody, who believes that there is nothing paranormal happening in the world, is for being a part of a forum like this.
Click to expand...

That is such a good question Phil.

Why would anyone want to try to bring some rationality, critical thinking, and a non-Kool-Aid drinking perspective to the subject of the paranormal? Why indeed!? Maybe they have an interest in the subject matter and the truth about it rather than blind acceptance of any interesting story that comes down the pike?

The fact of the matter is that there is an incredible amount of lies and deceit that gets passed off as truth and reality in the circles of those interested in the paranormal and by those interested in profiting from that interest. People like Lance, who actually check facts and attempt to hold people accountable are an unappreciated godsend. Without individuals like him the depths of unmitigated bullshit would be even more unnavigable than they already are.

There is good reason why skeptics who check facts and call people on their less than truthful statements aren't that welcomed by the paranormal faux-reality dog and pony show cottage industry. You might want to ponder what that motivation might be as well.
 
The issue with Lance was never fact-checking, but in the way he treated other members. That's the beginning and end of it. Everyone is free to disagree, but when respect falls apart (and we do allow lots of latitude here), we have to act.
 
I always hate to see anyone leave... except maybe whatshisface the socialist thread nazi.
 
I get the feeling that some of the 'great and wonderful skeptics" who are trying so hard to save us from ourselves acutally feel threatened that things might not be as mechanical as their gurus have claimed. Even when James Randi has been shown to be a...well, lets just say in the interest of fairness less than honest and let it go at that. But, if you are going to jettison your worldview and you are religiously oriented then I guess you have to have something to replace that with. What better than a rah, rah I'm logical peanut gallery full of people telling you how much smarter than the superstitous riff raff you are. Anyway, if it's just charlatans then again I say that you can go to Wall Street or Washington or Tehran or Bejing and find much more worthy corruption than slaying a ufo geek who has a blog and a newsletter that only like minded people read. But, who am I to stand against the tide of the junior scientist fan boys/girls. Have at it O Slayers of the Woo woo! I stand in awe at your greatness! :cool:

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------

Still, I actually found Lance to have more game than most of the skeptics I have ran across. He did do research although slanted toward his worldview. But, which of us don't do that? I'm sure I do. All in all except for the constant baiting of a host which no show/forum would tolerate I found him to be well read and much more formidable than your average woo woo slayer. All the best to you Lance if you read this. I've never tried to hide the fact that I don't agree with your worldview but we seemed to be able to disagree civily enough. :)
 
Gene Steinberg said:
The issue with Lance was never fact-checking, but in the way he treated other members. That's the beginning and end of it. Everyone is free to disagree, but when respect falls apart (and we do allow lots of latitude here), we have to act.
Click to expand...

I'd say some respect has collapsed.

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------
tyder001 said:
I get the feeling that some of the 'great and wonderful skeptics" who are trying so hard to save us from ourselves acutally feel threatened that things might not be as mechanical as their gurus have claimed.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, it has been my experience that those types are not frightened by things vague and undefinable. It is usually the non-skeptical ones, those who accept things with little doubt or questioning, who find themselves under the influence of irrational fear and dread. The motivation for wanting to expose liars, fakes, frauds, and hoaxers is pretty easy to understand actually. Once you have been burned or had one of your loved ones burned, your view of how harmless these peddlers of superstition and fear actually are greatly changes. In this field like any other, you get what you are willing to accept.
 
I normally abhor any kind of censorship, but I don't think this fits in a censorship category. Some boundaries need to be there or it's chaos. Posts making a point can be made without being uncivil. I trust Gene on this.
Besides, I do NOT want to see the forums degenerate into mindless name calling and troll-like postings like I have witnessed on other sites. I really like the Paracast, and I love the discussions on here. I don't want to see anything happen to it.
I'm sure Lance will be back.
 
That's entirely his decision, but the Facebook post is just spin control and, as I've said, not the real reason he's no longer here. His messages won't be deleted either, since that's just absurd. If he wants back, he understands the terms, and they are simple and sensible.
 
What forum member has been personally attacked more than Lance? It's disproportionate to anything he dished out or deserved.
 
I would disagree with lot of the comments posted to this thread.

Lance, was only clever in the way, he has fooled lot of people here into believing he knew what he was going on about. Lance, is not a polite man, he has often brought the discussions in this forum down to very insensitive level. Lance has tried to belittle me in the Crystal Skulls thread, and has attempted, often to do the same thing to other forum members, in the past, and Chris too has experienced his fury and disdain for all things paranormal. I have baited Lance only after he done it to me, but my baiting has never been insulting, as what he unleashed

Lance Moody, is not someone, anyone in their right mind should ever give complete respect to. But seems some here on the forum, do respect him, completely not sure, its difficult to discern.

Lance, I will accept and admit has done some good research, in the past, and that I will respect. But equally, Lance has shown himself to be not open to other ideas and beliefs systems, even when somebody has provided some compelling evidence, to open that mind of his.

What is the point of talking to Lance, anyway, if he so set in his ways. What does Lance get from posting to this forum?

I wish Gene hadn't asked Lance to take a cooling off period, because I wanted to read his response, to my last post at the Crystal Skulls thread.

Lance, yesterday, cleverly edited his posted after 1 o clock,,and added the Dr Walsh article, and changed some of the wording in his last posting. .

Lance in doing so least in my mind was trying his best not to have to answer the question I had raised to him about the HP testing and their final conclusions after the testing of the Mitchel-Hedges Skull. His only comment, to me on Saturday was to dismiss it, which was quiet frankly was not a good enough comment, the circumstances, deserved a better comment then the one he produced. If he hadn't gone maybe he would have given me a response, but I wonder if it would be typical and same old Lance, or would he have surprised me with his response?
 
Kieran said:
I would disagree with lot of the comments posted to this thread.

Lance, was only clever in the way, he has fooled lot of people here into believing he knew what he was going on about. Lance, is not a polite man, he has often brought the discussions in this forum down to very insensitive level. Lance has tried to belittle me in the Crystal Skulls thread, and has attempted, often to do the same thing to other forum members, in the past, and Chris too has experienced his fury and disdain for all things paranormal. I have baited Lance only after he done it to me, but my baiting has never been insulting, as what he unleashed

Lance Moody, is not someone, anyone in their right mind should ever give complete respect to. But seems some here on the forum, do respect him, completely not sure, its difficult to discern.

Lance, I will accept and admit has done some good research, in the past, and that I will respect. But equally, Lance has shown himself to be not open to other ideas and beliefs systems, even when somebody has provided some compelling evidence, to open that mind of his.

What is the point of talking to Lance, anyway, if he so set in his ways. What does Lance get from posting to this forum?

I wish Gene hadn't asked Lance to take a cooling off period, because I wanted to read his response, to my last post at the Crystal Skulls thread.

Lance, yesterday, cleverly edited his posted after 1 o clock,,and added the Dr Walsh article, and changed some of the wording in his last posting. .

Lance in doing so least in my mind was trying his best not to have to answer the question I had raised to him about the HP testing and their final conclusions after the testing of the Mitchel-Hedges Skull. His only comment, to me on Saturday was to dismiss it, which was quiet frankly was not a good enough comment, the circumstances, deserved a better comment then the one he produced. If he hadn't gone maybe he would have given me a response, but I wonder if it would be typical and same old Lance, or would he have surprised me with his response?
Click to expand...

I didn't know that you knew Lance beyond this forum, because for you to make that type of assessment of him, that must be the case. I also don't think that people have provided compelling evidence that have swayed me, Lance, or any other skeptic. It's all just anecdotal, and anytime someone says they have TRUE evidence, it gets forgotten. Remember Ray Standford and Ted Philips? They have not presented any of their evidence that they claim is so amazing. Only blurry images and ambiguous data. No good pictures or film that they claim that they have.
 
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