I've asked Fox for a clarification. But certainly it's clear from his comments on The Paracast that he was fighting an uphill battle. It's not the first time producers and networks have placed product above content, if you get the picture.
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James Fox -- July 1, 2012
- Thread starter PamiP
- Start date
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
Ja Love and cool heads its only a TV show
Chuck Garabedian
Paranormal Novice
After reading Paul Kimball's review of the show, he sure used some very strong language and imagery to describe James Fox. I have to say that for someone who seemingly is not in contact with Mr. Fox, he sure came to some strong conclusions that James is a "sell out". Admittedly, in my opinion, the show is terrible but for Paul to take it to the next level and call him a sell out is a bit harsh.
James did try to explain the situation and while he did not openly state this, it seems evident that he sees problems with the show.
Considering this, if the show is on for a second season and changes are not made (either improving the shows quality and credibility or in James leaving it) then I think Paul's statements would have more legitimacy to them.
Gene and Chris have expressed their concern many time on the Paracast that the UFO research field is not attracting new people anymore. Well after seeing this escapade I can totally see why.... I have many years of scientific research experience but would not be publicly involved in this field if you paid me a truck full of money.
James did try to explain the situation and while he did not openly state this, it seems evident that he sees problems with the show.
Considering this, if the show is on for a second season and changes are not made (either improving the shows quality and credibility or in James leaving it) then I think Paul's statements would have more legitimacy to them.
Gene and Chris have expressed their concern many time on the Paracast that the UFO research field is not attracting new people anymore. Well after seeing this escapade I can totally see why.... I have many years of scientific research experience but would not be publicly involved in this field if you paid me a truck full of money.
V
Voyager
Guest
nameless
Paranormal Adept
jah shakah-i an eye- jah rastafari-bless and ting.Ja Love and cool heads its only a TV show
I had a really long conversation with James Fox. It was mostly private, between friends, of course, but he did want me to tell you that he is working very hard to improve the quality of the show, and eliminate some of the silliness, such as those absurd night shots and the "Paranormal Activity" effects. He hopes that, if there is a second season, you'll see a huge difference.
And if anyone cares, the show is getting record ratings for National Geographic channel, about twice what their other shows are getting.
Meantime, I'm sure the criticisms are well deserved, but I also think Kimball went way too far, which is why Fox became so enraged.
V
Voyager
Guest
I listened to Rense the other night. He had Robert Hastings on. Hastings was enraged about Chasing UFOs. He said he was walking around all day, "with his fists clenched." "It's going to destroy the credibility of UFO research." James Fox needs to earn a living. It's not like we have a healthy economy with an over abundance of capital to fund projects. It's ridiculous.
Getting a network offer is a miracle. And it's not that Fox is a millionaire who can be high and mighty about job offers. As I said, he understands the limitations of the medium, and the obstacles he has to combat. But if he wasn't there to try to make it better, just consider what the show might have become. And, as I said, it's very, very successful for the network.
V
Voyager
Guest
Exactly. He's supposed to turn down the offer and sink into abject poverty because it might affect the credibility of a field that has no credibility in the first place!
nameless
Paranormal Adept
Take the money! Any fool can see its entertainment. If youve tuned in to Chasing Ufos expecting a detailed exposé and extreme scientific analysis in a handy 45 mins then your the kind of dude who shouts at wrestling and complains at the frog reportage on the news skits on sesame street.
There will be more programmes like this, and more etc... UNtil the oversaturation creates a voyeuristic passive void which needs to be filled by a more hearty meal. At least shows like this are helping by quickening the hunger and appetite for something more substantial.
There will be more programmes like this, and more etc... UNtil the oversaturation creates a voyeuristic passive void which needs to be filled by a more hearty meal. At least shows like this are helping by quickening the hunger and appetite for something more substantial.
RenaissanceLady
Paranormal Adept
The problem is simply that some of us are hoping against hope that this field could get at least a smidge of credibility, by a few genuinely credible people. This isn't out of some desperate "I want to believe" mentality. Rather, it came as an end-result after some prolonged remarkably odd occurrences when I made the unhappy realization that my attempts at being "logical" had become frantically illogical. I had to admit that something more was happening and I have since absolutely hated having to defend that admittance by those who refuse to accept anything odd can happen - even when they personally shared the same experiences. To admit that anything "paranormal" might have occurred is to risk ridicule and have your sanity questioned, even when being more objective than those who only know how to blindly doubt.
The truth is I strive to live in a rational world and utterly hate the word "belief" as much as I hate the word "faith". I hope to never have these words applied to me. I prefer the words "objective" and "proof", which is a tall order in much of the paranormal community.
It shouldn't be.
We can only measure what we have the tools and understanding to measure. This does not mean that those things which cannot currently be measured are not real. Germ Theory was once on the fringes of science as no sensible person could possibly have thought that organisms which they couldn't see might actually influence health. The doctor who first started theorizing about this was able to save countless women in his maternity ward, yet he still faced profound ridicule and died in an insane asylum. This is what happens when a brilliant and observant individual reaches conclusions that challenge his contemporaries' notions. It wasn't until years after his death that Louis Pasteur confirmed Germ Theory. (I'd encourage Googling "Ignaz Semmelweis" and/or "Germ Theory" to truly grasp this reality. I'd also ask the "skeptics" to consider how many theories we now readily accept that were once on the fringes of science. I can name several without even trying.) Things happen all around us all the time which we cannot see yet we know are real. Things happen around us all the time that thousands of people witness yet they face ridicule. If thousands of people witness a murder, there would be a murder investigation even if no body or other evidence of a murder was found. If thousands of people witness a UFO, they must be lying, crazy or genuinely mistaken even if there is further evidence that something occurred. Fringe science in the making....
These have been a few bad weeks for those in the UFO and paranormal communities. We have had the problems with Chasing UFOs, making this topic look even more ridiculous and causing us to doubt the credibility of someone who at least seemed slightly more credible. Now we also have the whole Nick Pope debacle (and someone should seriously start a thread about this), showing how easily someone who seems to have the most credentials is willing to make the whole community appear insane just to sell out for some extra cash. How do we appear credible when those with whom we have the highest esteem don't even respect their fields?
I have nothing against brain candy and will probably still watch Chasing UFOs, hoping it becomes better. I watched UFO Hunters for precisely the same reason, though I doubt they ever would have pretended a small mask or puppet was a genuine ET. Even after drinking an IPA, that was pretty painful. The truth is, anything done by a member of the community pretty much reflects on everyone in the community. We should distance ourselves from the sell-outs.
The truth is I strive to live in a rational world and utterly hate the word "belief" as much as I hate the word "faith". I hope to never have these words applied to me. I prefer the words "objective" and "proof", which is a tall order in much of the paranormal community.
It shouldn't be.
We can only measure what we have the tools and understanding to measure. This does not mean that those things which cannot currently be measured are not real. Germ Theory was once on the fringes of science as no sensible person could possibly have thought that organisms which they couldn't see might actually influence health. The doctor who first started theorizing about this was able to save countless women in his maternity ward, yet he still faced profound ridicule and died in an insane asylum. This is what happens when a brilliant and observant individual reaches conclusions that challenge his contemporaries' notions. It wasn't until years after his death that Louis Pasteur confirmed Germ Theory. (I'd encourage Googling "Ignaz Semmelweis" and/or "Germ Theory" to truly grasp this reality. I'd also ask the "skeptics" to consider how many theories we now readily accept that were once on the fringes of science. I can name several without even trying.) Things happen all around us all the time which we cannot see yet we know are real. Things happen around us all the time that thousands of people witness yet they face ridicule. If thousands of people witness a murder, there would be a murder investigation even if no body or other evidence of a murder was found. If thousands of people witness a UFO, they must be lying, crazy or genuinely mistaken even if there is further evidence that something occurred. Fringe science in the making....
These have been a few bad weeks for those in the UFO and paranormal communities. We have had the problems with Chasing UFOs, making this topic look even more ridiculous and causing us to doubt the credibility of someone who at least seemed slightly more credible. Now we also have the whole Nick Pope debacle (and someone should seriously start a thread about this), showing how easily someone who seems to have the most credentials is willing to make the whole community appear insane just to sell out for some extra cash. How do we appear credible when those with whom we have the highest esteem don't even respect their fields?
I have nothing against brain candy and will probably still watch Chasing UFOs, hoping it becomes better. I watched UFO Hunters for precisely the same reason, though I doubt they ever would have pretended a small mask or puppet was a genuine ET. Even after drinking an IPA, that was pretty painful. The truth is, anything done by a member of the community pretty much reflects on everyone in the community. We should distance ourselves from the sell-outs.
jase
Paranormal Novice
Thanks for the follow-up Gene. I greatly appreciate you informing the community about what you found out. I am not mad at the guy, and I don't expect 100% serious research methodology. But I do think that doing a cookie-cutter show based on the cheap and vacuous tricks of Destination Truth or Finding Bigfoot is a very poor way to go. I hope that James Fox is able to improve the show in the future, and I am glad that he is getting good ratings. I wish him well. But I stand by my opinion that this is (so far) one of the worst reality-style shows that I have ever seen.
jase
Paranormal Novice
I think that there are probably a lot of dedicated and credible UFO researchers out there. I liked the recent book and UFO documentary on the History Channel by Leslie Keane, for example. The problem is that not too many of them manage to get their own TV series. And if they do get their own TV series, they are probably either restricted in their control over the show, or they are heavily pressured to sensationalize and dumb down the show.
RenaissanceLady
Paranormal Adept
Unfortunately, James Fox also appears to be distancing himself from the show:
Professional UFO hunters say they won't watch 'Chasing UFOs' - National ufo | Examiner.com
That really doesn't sound too encouraging.
I'm not arguing that there aren't skilled investigators out there. On the contrary, I have tremendous respect for Christopher O'Brien, MUFON and many others in these fields. My point is simply that when we have these back-to-back disasters (Chasing UFOs and the whole Nick Pope thing), it tarnishes everyone and everything associated with that person, group or community. This has made it even harder for those who have been fighting for serious investigation to achieve that goal and I'm certain is even more off-putting for legitimate researchers who might have otherwise thought about studying anything remotely paranormal. Whether or not we choose to admit it, the reality is that the actions of a few in a community, any community, reflect upon that community as a whole. Any intelligent discourse can and will have these actions used as a rebuttal. We should remember this when we keep trying to defend the indefensible, even when it is done by those whom we had some respect and might have even considered friends. Moronic actions or claims should first and foremost be called out by the community, so it is understood that those actions or claims are not embraced by that community.
In any case, this discussion may all be moot. If James Fox is dissing his own show, it may be time we accept the reality that this simply isn't a good show. I'll keep watching it for at least a few more episodes to see how it develops, with the hopes that it can be redeemed. At the very least, I'd like for it to be a program that doesn't absolutely insult my intelligence, even if it is done in the name of "entertainment."
V
Voyager
Guest
Professional UFO hunters? There are researchers who investigate cases after they have already occurred, usually from the comfort of their armchair. I am not aware of any professional UFO hunters. Everybody in the field has their own personal agenda. There is so much division, and infighting, nothing much gets accomplished. It's like Ghostbusters: "Who you gonna call." No amount of video, pictures, or witness testimony will persuade the scientific community to take the UFO phenomenon seriously. I decided many years ago; that I was not going to try and convince the world that UFOs exist.
RenaissanceLady
Paranormal Adept
To quote the wise and immortal words of my people, "Oy."
The Cliff's Notes version is essentially this: It began when Nick Pope started speaking ominously about an alien invasion during the London Olympics. OK, it seemed bats*** crazy, especially coming from Nick Pope. Still, he has some fairly awesome credentials so most of us were wondering what the heck was going on. Because it was fricking Nick Pope talking about this, a few even took the threat seriously. After all, this was someone who spent 21 years working for the British MoD. Even those of us who weren't expecting War of the Worlds goes Cockney were thinking we should pay attention.
Then, about a week or so ago, his interviews about the upcoming alien invasion became a bit more sinister. It became clear he had a story to tell but wasn't going to tell the whole story. Finally, it turned out that all of this ominous talk was really nothing more than hype about an upcoming Play Station game that involves shooting aliens, all dressed up in the guise of being actual journalism. He's since taken the twist that playing this game will actually help people fight real aliens, should they land.
In a nutshell: This guy completely flushed all his credentials and his reputation (and the reputations of those with whom he has worked) down the toilet in order to hype a new game for Play Station. He's completely sold out and caused considerable embarrassment not only to those who interviewed him but also the whole UFO/paranormal community. If a guy with his credentials can do this, how does that make the rest of us look? This is how he chose to end his career.
If you want the complete blow-by-blow account, I'd recommend watching this. You might need to bathe in Purell once it's done:
Edited to add: You might also want to read this. Keep an eye on the skies for saucers during the Olympics Games, warns former MoD UFO expert | Mail Online
From the FWIW dept: I turned down a Discovery Channel/CN deal for a San Luis Valley/Paranormal show last year. Why? Because the show's potential producers only wanted to skim the cream of the reports I investigated over the years and make the experiencers the focus. I sent them a really cool 10 episode breakdown and insisted that the San Luis Valley was the star and should be the focus so as not to exploit people who have experienced the extraordinary events. It would also open up the show to other cool elements in the locales history, weird people and events, etc. Their response was "we're not the History Channel." I said, "well maybe I'm talking to the wrong people." This basic disagreement over "vision" was a deal-breaker for me, so I told them to re-work it in order for me to become involved. They just drifted away after I gave the contract to my lawyer in Boston to handle.
I feel for James and appreciate his indi work. He's between the rock and a hard roll just like Rich Dolan was back in 2005 when Sci-Fi tried that "Sci-Fi Investigates" series. Rich seems like he recovered from that ill-conceived shows demise and I wish James luck trying get them to re-work the show in a second + ? seasons.
RenaissanceLady
Paranormal Adept
Thank you for being honest and having integrity. I think you touched upon a good point in that the line between journalism and entertainment has become blurred to the point of being almost invisible and integrity is sold for ratings. I hope James Fox is able to guide the program back on track in part because it is also his credibility that is on the line. It's one thing if I'm critical of the show (and I've been kinder than many as I've stated much of the show really isn't that bad) but it's another to have organizations within the community such as MUFON distance themselves from it. Credibility can be lost in a blink. I hope that hasn't already happened to James Fox or if it has, he is able to make a full recovery. What's the most disappointing in this case is that I find the show has so much potential.... If they were allowed to truly research and honestly present these stories, without the gimmicks.