James Carrion, "The Rosetta Deception," July 20, 2014

[DissectionStalker]

[Stanton Friedman wrote:] If the saucers were of Earthling origin why have they not been used in Earthling wars Korea, Vietnam, etc etc.

Because the [human made] ET-UFO's are mostly experiments of psychological warfare and, also, a cover to do blackops, such as, probing nuclear weapons sites [for psychological warfare defense response reasons], and to dissect and bio-sample for Cold War reasons cows with complete deniability, and to test drones and cloaking and stealth technologies, holography projection, and to be a general cover to blame the UFO for any number of purposes such as secret ongoing Military R&D.

ET-UFO hoaxes are also always being done by people outside the military or secret government programs. Hollywood, television, internet, for example.

Over the decades... The ET-UFO enigma has generated trillions of dollars in business for humans -not ET... at least, indirectly.

The ET-UFO generated a nice living and traveling author/speaker lifestyle for you too. Whether you are ultimately correct that ET-UFO's are real flying/crashing on our planet for decades [or more] time is telling, but you definitely have contributed a lifetime of service about these subjects. That is very valuable, imo, because you helped me think and learn more than I would have without your ideas, knowledge, and beliefs. I certainly appreciate that very much.

 

[Constance]

As I recall you've cited Mirage Men as one of the primary sources of your complete confidence in your thesis. Don't you know you were pranked by Pilkington? By John Lundberg too (with the film), as well as others in the merry band that have identified themselves as "The Circlemakers" in the UK. Go to their website, linked below and scout around for a bit. You'll sooner or later hear the laughter in the background and recognize the total cynicism that motivates it.

From the first-cited review of the book at amazon under the category "Most Helpful Customer Reviews," by John H. Macdonald:

"The weakness of the book lies in the fact that the authors are players in the game, rather than outsiders looking in. As a confessed crop circle hoaxster, the author enjoys playing with perceptions of truth. . . ."

¤ c i r c l e m a k e r s ¤

 

[Burnt State]

But much of the UFO phenomenon has been mapped out by insiders or once upon a time insiders, that includes witnesses and researchers. The disinfo agents love their lies and truth manipulation and Mirage Men does try to get as many horse's mouths to speak. Regardless of editing, I think we get to hear people from all sides of the fence, from believers to disputers. That makes it a rich text and it does open up history in a way that makes us reconsider the role of the UFO as a functional cold war prop.

However this does not mean that every UFO incident is a military experiment. Phoenix lights on the the hand....well I think whenever you get a lot of video evidence of any supposedly liminal event we can probably discount it. The real phenomenon seems to do very well at mostly masking our attempts to record it.

Pilkington appears to be working on a consistent body of interests like any artist will.

 

[Constance]

But much of the UFO phenomenon has been mapped out by insiders or once upon a time insiders, that includes witnesses and researchers. The disinfo agents love their lies and truth manipulation and Mirage Men does try to get as many horse's mouths to speak. Regardless of editing, I think we get to hear people from all sides of the fence, from believers to disputers. That makes it a rich text and it does open up history in a way that makes us reconsider the role of the UFO as a functional cold war prop.

However this does not mean that every UFO incident is a military experiment. Phoenix lights on the the hand....well I think whenever you get a lot of video evidence of any supposedly liminal event we can probably discount it. The real phenomenon seems to do very well at mostly masking our attempts to record it.

Pilkington appears to be working on a consistent body of interests like any artist will.

The question to answer is expressed in the subtitle of the Circlemakers' website -- art and artifice. Read the texts produced by this group, study their films, contemplate their works as a whole and you will have your answer about their collective intention.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Btw, IF Stanton Friedman is really reading and responding to my recent posts [yesterday or today], then I sincerely thank Mr. Friedman for responding. I hope some of my remarks using some colorful language is taken to be lighthearted and not meant to be mean spirited in any way shape or form.

Even if I'm mistaken and proven wrong [for example, about Roswell] I have made an honest effort to learn the truth about these subjects with my limited mind's ability and limited time I have.

If anyone believes they know the answers to Roswell, then I can respect their reasons for doing so. We all have to have some filters we can accept as reasonable before we can find what we believe to be the truth. My filters prevent me from just getting lost in various conspiracy theories and accepting controversial human testimonies many decades later within a supposed Roswell cover-up. There are even different cover-ups and disinformation attempts, so that most will be false and the truth can't be isolated within its rats nest.

I use other filters outside those cover-up labyrinths to try and give myself another more logical way to the probable answers. I personally have no proof of anything beyond that.

 

[Burnt State]

The question to answer is expressed in the subtitle of the Circlemakers' website -- art and artifice. Read the texts produced by this group, study their films, contemplate their works as a whole and you will have your answer about their collective intention.

And there are articial UFO's that have been made quite artfully, no different than making a circle in the field. They are both socially disruptive for different levels of purpose.

 

[DissectionStalker]

As I recall you've cited Mirage Men as one of the primary sources of your complete confidence in your thesis.

Hi Constance, nice to hear from you, and thank you for your contributions to this Forum.

Just PLEASE watch and listen to all the people interviewed as primary sources despite whatever agenda the movie makers had hidden. No need to believe any theories/agendas the movie makers had to form some useful opinions from listening to their primary sources directly! No filters!

Yes, editing, etc. has an agenda, but only so much can be distorted. It would be easy to follow-up with those interviewees still living if they felt their words were totally being misrepresented.

Also, though I think the Mirage Men movie is a 'must see' because you get to see/hear "experience" many of the main players from the 1980's, it is not needed to understand what really was going on during that time frame.

No doubt... Gabe Valdez [and son Greg Valdez's book & father's records & Greg's interviews] are absolutely critical to study everything about them, and their relationships with Doty and Mr. Bennewitz and the cattle mutilations and the related military UFO's. [Greg was young in the 1980's, but he did meet and know of these people over several years with his father's contacts.]

So, you would learn [need to know] how Linda Mouton Howe became abused by Doty [unless she is a government agent still acting as such which is remotely possible], and read all the books written and interviews done relating to Mr. Bennewitz and Doty and Gabe Valdez's investigations with these cast of characters. I'm sure at least 5-10 hours long audio interviews have been done with Gabe Valdez and about the same for Greg too.

IF YOU CAN "take down" Gabe Valdez as a liar or mistaken or sell out to something besides his NDA to Bigelow much later in the 1990's, then you will blow away my whole thinking about these subjects. I REST MY CASE with Mr. Gabe Valdez ...my hero and truth-sayer, my Primary Source, about these matters.

He's by no means the be all and end all, since there are many players still living that know more about this too. Some is documented and much could still be uncovered, imo.

 

[Constance]

IF YOU CAN "take down" Gabe Valdez as a liar or mistaken or sell out to something besides his NDA to Bigelow much later in the 1990's, then you will blow away my whole thinking about these subjects. I REST MY CASE with Mr. Gabe Valdez ...my hero and truth-sayer, my Primary Source, about these matters.

Why would I want to "blow away your whole thinking about these subjects"?

 

[DissectionStalker]

Why would I want to "blow away your whole thinking about these subjects"?

To correct any mistakes or perhaps offer better alternatives with some "evidence" to back it.

You definitely have more historical reading knowledge overall about ET-UFO related subjects than I do. Maybe you know information relating to some of these events that might counter what Gabe Valdez has said happened with these cast of characters and the evidence he gathered.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

@DStalker: You keep touting Gabe Valdez as the end all to be all. I knew Gabe for almost 20 years and worked w/ him on a number of cases. He was a very observent, on-the-ball law enforcement official. I spoke w/ him at length quite a number of times over the years and agree with quite a bit of his thinking, but not all. Gabe was inside somewhat of a bubble in Rio Arriba County. His views were somewhat colored by spending decades inside that bubble. What Gabe believed was going on around Dulce and elsewhere in Northern NM doesn't necessarily hold true everywhere else in North America, Europe, South America, Australia, etc etc. Especially when speaking about the mutes, it's a huge subject w/ a lot of permutations and extenuating circumstances...

 

[DissectionStalker]

What Gabe believed was going on around Dulce and elsewhere in Northern NM doesn't necessarily hold true everywhere else in North America, Europe, South America, Australia, etc etc. Especially when speaking about the mutes, it's a huge subject w/ a lot of permutations and extenuating circumstances...

Yeah, well, which one, just one, was done by any ET-UFO???

 

[Burnt State]

@DStalker: You keep touting Gabe Valdez as the end all to be all. I knew Gabe for almost 20 years and worked w/ him on a number of cases. He was a very observent, on-the-ball law enforcement official. I spoke w/ him at length quite a number of times over the years and agree with quite a bit of his thinking, but not all. Gabe was inside somewhat of a bubble in Rio Arriba County. His views were somewhat colored by spending decades inside that bubble. What Gabe believed was going on around Dulce and elsewhere in Northern NM doesn't necessarily hold true everywhere else in North America, Europe, South America, Australia, etc etc. Especially when speaking about the mutes, it's a huge subject w/ a lot of permutations and extenuating circumstances...

It seems to me that each researcher is a situational expert who may or may not choose to use other researchers, academics and investigators' shoulders to stand on top of to build even better ideas. Those who don't make those other academic connections are often missing big pieces of the puzzle.

For each single researcher who does not make sound connections to the past is not always a good place to base your convictions on as many have their own theories and ideas which may even be clouded over due to tunnel vision, or they themselves may have descended into their own pit of belief that rejects all challenges. Can you base anything off of what Linda Moulton Howe says today, hardly. And independently can we use Karla Turner, Jacobs, Sims or David Stinnett as a sound starting place - I think it's problematic.

But what's interesting is when we do find new ways of seeing, that do connect and relate to past investigators, we may find something very tangible that is worth working with. I wish someone would expand the work of MacDonald and Tonnies, connect them to Vallee and Hansen, see how this meshes up against O'Brien, Hill and Bishop and then see what you've got at the end of the day.